Should I self-publish?

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Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Queen Michael said:
Don't selfpublish. If you gotta self-publish, your book probably needs a bit of work.
Publishers are becoming far more selective and agents are over-burdened. The idea that you need a bit of work, even "probably" so, merely because an agent/publisher won't look at it is pretty ridiculous.

Professional publishing is in no way an indicator of quality.

That also doesn't mean his work is good, it just means the absence of piblisher interest is in now way an indicator that it's bad.

It's actually sort of amazing how bands are encouraged to go indie and in film it's even seen as a sign of artistry (despite all the crap that's released), but in writing it's discouraged.
 

MysticMongol

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Sep 29, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Queen Michael said:
Don't selfpublish. If you gotta self-publish, your book probably needs a bit of work.
Publishers are becoming far more selective and agents are over-burdened. The idea that you need a bit of work, even "probably" so, merely because an agent/publisher won't look at it is pretty ridiculous.

Professional publishing is in no way an indicator of quality.

That also doesn't mean his work is good, it just means the absence of piblisher interest is in now way an indicator that it's bad.

It's actually sort of amazing how bands are encouraged to go indie and in film it's even seen as a sign of artistry (despite all the crap that's released), but in writing it's discouraged.
I can find out if a band is good in forty-five seconds by loading up a youtube video. I don't have the time or inclination (or, usually, opportunity) to read the first few chapters of a 40,000 word story every time one passes through my perception, nor do helpful links to similar stories appear when I'm reading something I like. The tools for self-promotion of books just don't exist, and if you self publish you need to find a way to get reviewers to read and review your work (they're all busy reading/reviewing things sent to them by real publishing houses, or by people they've heard of) some way to advertise (publishing houses have established markets to sell to) and you get to be your own editor/layout guy, which is much harder than you think it is.

But hey, keep making spurious comparisons between different industries. It's not your money you're risking.
 

SecondPrize

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Mar 12, 2012
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Flatfrog said:
I've got a book I've been sitting on for years and refining on and off. I went down the traditional 'look for an agent, send to publishers' route and it hasn't got me anywhere, but part of me wonders if these days that's even worth it.

The main things that are stopping me are these questions -

My book is aimed at teenagers and I have no idea if they read e-books. Isn't that the kind of thing adults who travel to work on the train do?
Am I potentially damaging my chances of being picked up by a publisher? (assuming it's not a 50 Shades runaway success)

I'm interested in hearing here because I know the Escapist has quite a large young-but-literate readership. Any thoughts are welcome!

(Oh - and one final thing. If I *did* publish it, would it be inappropriate to plug it here? :) )
I'd keep working at finding a publisher with the warning that you do not want to sign a shitty contract. In many cases you'd be better off not publishing at all than signing some of the stuff publishers come out with.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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MysticMongol said:
But hey, keep making spurious comparisons between different industries. It's not your money you're risking.
Well, except I'm doing the same thing the topic is about, but hey, it wouldn't be fun to preach not making spurious comparisons if you didn't then yourself make spurious comments.

Not to mention, your argument for why it's different falls short on the point I actually made. Promotion wasn't my issue and still isn't. But I guess it's more fun to take spurious shots.

Oh, and outright false claims about reviewers. Sorry, got distracted by all the other stuff.
 

Brian Tams

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Sep 3, 2012
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Ebooks are a perfectly fine way to grab the attention of teenagers. You may be thinking that only adults would have e-readers, but you couldn't be more wrong.

Firstly, ereaders can be anything nowadays. Tablets, kindles, even smart phones all function as ereaders, and most teenagers have access to at least a smart phone.

Secondly, places like Amazon allow easy self publishing (or so I hear), so the challenges of self publishing are much much less nowadays.

And that's just about all I am qualified to answer.
 

1066

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Mar 3, 2009
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I used to be part of a writing group that had, as one of the members, someone who was fairly into the Romance Writers of America scene. She knew a number of the ins and outs from teh other side, so here's some advice she gave me over the years.

1) Make sure money goes one way. If you're paying someone to publish for you, then getting money back from them, something has broken down. There are a good number of people who have self-published and done well. The guy who wrote Eregon and the author of 'Old Man's War' (Schalzi?) are the obvious exceptions, but remember that they are the exception. More often than not, self-publishing will put a black mark on you that'll hurt your chances later on and limit who will pick up, sell, and later publish that and any future works you do.

2) Court one agent and, especially, one publishing house at a time. The publishing community is very small and they talk. There's some leeway if you make it clear that you're submitting your stuff to a few agents, but don't try and get away with not telling them. Make it upfront and even then, only two at most. Knew a guy who thought he'd be clever and mass-emailed all the agents he could find with his manuscript. Blackballed in less than a day.

3) Short stories: To get noticed, have a number of short stories written and submit them to magazines, etc. This is the best way to get your foot in the door. It shows them that you have a work ethic and that your stuff is good enough to, frankly, bother with since it's at least good enough for 'lesser' publications.
 

Icehearted

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Jul 14, 2009
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The market is a messed up collaboration of networking, elitism, and favors. If you know someone, or know someone who knows someone, or you get lucky, you might find your manuscript not in the slush pile... maybe, and this also depends on whether or not the person that would look at it is having a bad day, suddenly feels like half-assing their job, got a coffee that was too cold, or just plain doesn't like your first name, and nearly every possible reason therein. It's a highly fickle and predominantly unprofessional profession.

Your best bet may be to make a name for yourself independently. The digital market is huge and getting bigger, so this is a great age to self-publish, then consider shopping around with houses and catching an editor on a good enough day that your work doesn't wind up in the graveyard with hundreds of others.

Res Plus said:
"Am I potentially damaging my chances of being picked up by a publisher? (assuming it's not a 50 Shades runaway success)" - I did creative writing at Uni and the publishing advice was always avoid sending to publishers yourself, get an agent, if you send it yourself and it's rejected, agents are better at bullying publishers basically.
And some of the bigger names in writing advocate for going straight to an editor when you're new and save having an agent for later. Stephen King and Robert Asprin have both encouraged putting off an agent until at least having one published manuscript, and even then a lot of writers recommend networking personally, such as at writers conventions, because skillful haggling, charm, and a tolerance for scotch will get you a lot farther than skill and talent on any day. Mostly it's really about who you know.
 

conmag9

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Aug 4, 2008
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While I can't give any real advice on whether to self-publish or not (and others seem to be doing a better job here anyway), my twofold recommendation would be this:

1. If you do decide and manage to get ahold of a potential publisher, be very careful what you sign. Like, seek actual legal opinions. I've seen too many instances of artists of various kinds getting screwed, and given how hard it is to even get real attention, it's understandable that such deals aren't always examined with the scrutiny they should be.

2. Be prepared for a lot of hard work, whether you do it yourself or not. Getting your work out to a large audience, no matter the quality, takes a lot of determination. You'd think writing would be the hard part, but with writing you're likely to make it a labor of love, I'd say distribution is the trickier part. Keep at it though, and eventually you can break through.

Whatever you choose, good luck!
 

Bad Jim

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Nov 1, 2010
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One rather important question: is it any good? How many of your friends and family have read it? What percentage of those who got a copy actually finished reading it?

See if you can get some feedback from the publishers you send it to. While their opinions are hardly infallible (most bestsellers by a new author get rejected by dozens of publishers before getting published) they are worth listening to.

Also, make sure the first page or so is really, really engaging. It's the first impression, and very possibly the only page a publisher will actually read before throwing the manuscript in the bin.
 

Antari

Music Slave
Nov 4, 2009
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Flatfrog said:
I've got a book I've been sitting on for years and refining on and off. I went down the traditional 'look for an agent, send to publishers' route and it hasn't got me anywhere, but part of me wonders if these days that's even worth it.

The main things that are stopping me are these questions -

My book is aimed at teenagers and I have no idea if they read e-books. Isn't that the kind of thing adults who travel to work on the train do?
Am I potentially damaging my chances of being picked up by a publisher? (assuming it's not a 50 Shades runaway success)

I'm interested in hearing here because I know the Escapist has quite a large young-but-literate readership. Any thoughts are welcome!

(Oh - and one final thing. If I *did* publish it, would it be inappropriate to plug it here? :) )
Teenagers do indeed use Ebooks. I dare say more frequently it appears than adults. I would think self-publishing is really the only option to make sure you open yourself up to as much of an audience as possible. Try it in open forum and if it is popular the publisher's will then have to come to you on your terms. Or you can go to them now, on terms that likely won't be of benefit to you in the long run.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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Mar 27, 2012
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Snotnarok said:
Can't really say much on publishing since I'm not a writer, I will say avoid posting links here of it though.

I asked a while ago if I could a link sharing my webcomic with other people sharing comics and I got "No it's self-advertizing". Thing is I don't make money on the comic, no ads, don't sell anything soooo I'm advertizing something that has not a dime revenue beyond a donation page.

I know there are users here who're very happy to report someone doing anything like that

There is a group for folks like you, friend. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/The-Escapist-Creative-Society

OT: I'm not a teenager, but I'm only in my early 20s, so I still know one or two. Me and my friends all have kindles and I primarily buy ebooks nowadays (they're cheaper and easier to carry). I doubt it'll hurt and may well, in fact, make it MORE likely that you'll be picked up by a publisher if it's a success.
 

Exosus

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Jun 24, 2008
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As a self-published author, I'll give you three brief comments on this issue:

Firstly, many great authors self-publish, and many great books are self-published. Some of my all-time favorite works are self-published. See for example Jenna Katerin Moran, whose work is truly brilliant (no, I am not Jenna Katerin Moran, though some days I wish I were). In many ways, the publishing industry stifles creativity and waters things down to pap for the masses; this isn't strictly a bad thing. If you have an auteur book, the best way to keep it yours is to self-publish.

Secondly, most self-published books are bad. Not dubious in quality, not promising with glimpses of potential, just old-fashioned bad. Don't be one of them. Get a real editor, a real cover designer, and perhaps a real formatter, and make sure your book is the best you could ever hope to make it. Then hire a marketer or at very least a marketing consultant to help you get it out there. I can recommend a few of all of those if you're interested.

Thirdly, your book almost certainly will not be picked up by a major publisher after it's been self-published unless it is the kind of success Forbes writes about. Your book will also almost certainly not make you a living, nor will your next three. Some people do, with good books and/or good luck, and there is most definitely plenty of money to be made, but if you go into it waiting for those dolla dolla bills, you are likely to be disappointed.

In brief(er): Treat it as a labor of love, and emphasize labor. Put everything you have into it, then hire good people to put everything they have into it as well. If the money and accolades start rolling in, understand that you have accomplished more than most, and don't let anyone tell you that you didn't earn it or you aren't a real writer.
 

Exosus

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Jun 24, 2008
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Oh and fourthly, do not, repeat DO NOT, sign up with a so-called indie press. I won't say scam, but I know way too many writers who have been through that and come out with horror stories. The reason they call it indie is because you're independent. Indie presses have all the bullshit of a publisher without any of the resources, connections, or cash supporting them.
 

RicoADF

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Jun 2, 2009
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MysticMongol said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Queen Michael said:
Don't selfpublish. If you gotta self-publish, your book probably needs a bit of work.
Publishers are becoming far more selective and agents are over-burdened. The idea that you need a bit of work, even "probably" so, merely because an agent/publisher won't look at it is pretty ridiculous.

Professional publishing is in no way an indicator of quality.

That also doesn't mean his work is good, it just means the absence of piblisher interest is in now way an indicator that it's bad.

It's actually sort of amazing how bands are encouraged to go indie and in film it's even seen as a sign of artistry (despite all the crap that's released), but in writing it's discouraged.
I can find out if a band is good in forty-five seconds by loading up a youtube video. I don't have the time or inclination (or, usually, opportunity) to read the first few chapters of a 40,000 word story every time one passes through my perception, nor do helpful links to similar stories appear when I'm reading something I like. The tools for self-promotion of books just don't exist, and if you self publish you need to find a way to get reviewers to read and review your work (they're all busy reading/reviewing things sent to them by real publishing houses, or by people they've heard of) some way to advertise (publishing houses have established markets to sell to) and you get to be your own editor/layout guy, which is much harder than you think it is.

But hey, keep making spurious comparisons between different industries. It's not your money you're risking.
Google play store on android does recommend similar books to what you have, and allows you to read a few pages to demo it. Maybe not perfect but makes self publishing doable.
 

Miyenne

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May 16, 2013
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Speaking as a self published author...

I didn't even try to submit to publishers, although I'm considering it now. With advice from my sister who is a librarian I went straight for self publishing.

I haven't had much success in selling, although everyone who has read it gives positive feedback.

I believe self publishing is the way to go, IF and only IF you can get it to sell well. Because that way you get most of the profits and no questionable contracts

I went with Amazon and Smashwords. Smashwords is an American site that distributes the book to all the popular ebook suppliers like Google and Barnes and Noble and such. The only problem with that is I'm Canadian so they take a huge chunk of my profits.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck and work hard.
 

Kpt._Rob

Travelling Mushishi
Apr 22, 2009
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I'm not going to say that you absolutely shouldn't self publish, just that it's very much not the optimal situation. First off, the stigma surrounding self published work will be enough to deter many readers. People know that self publishing is the route people take when they have a work that publishers reject, and most of them consider that a reflection of quality. While that's not necessarily true, since books can be rejected for reasons other than low quality, it's something that'll hang over your work like a dark cloud.

Second is the issue of publicity. If you don't go through a publisher, you're going to have to handle all the publicity yourself, and that's a big job. If you have any desire to turn a profit, then you'll have to do something to let people know that your book exists, since it'll get lost in the sea of other self published books if you don't. While this can include things like advertising on forums (though not this one, since self advertising isn't allowed here) it will have a very low success rate. After all, how many times has an advertising post on a forum convinced anyone to buy anything? People will buy your book because something about you tells them that you're a serious author who has done work that's worth paying for and devoting the time to reading. This means setting up means of promotion which are perceived as legitimate. Do you have a local bookstore whose owner you might be able to talk into letting you do a book signing? If so, you'll still have to write a professional looking press release so that people show up. Another option would be paying for banner advertising on a website with traffic high enough to be worth bothering with but low enough to be affordable.

You will also have to get reviews of your book from individuals who have at least a small amount of authority on the subject. For a self published book aimed at teens, this means you will probably have to send your book (for free) to bloggers who write about books. But you will also have to convince them that your book is worth reading before they will review it. For people who review books for a living time is money, and you'll need to come off as professional enough to convince them that it's worth spending time on your book. This may mean writing the most convincing cover letter you've ever written, or it may mean paying someone just to read it (and you should know ahead of time, that just because you payed them to review your book, does not mean that they're required to give you a positive review. Book reviewers will carry every bit as much stigma (if not more) for self published works, so finding a reviewer is going to be hard work.

Also, you WILL need to have a website. There's no way around this. You HAVE to have a website, and it HAS to look professional. If you don't know anything about setting up websites, this means either using a template (which isn't ideal) or hiring a professional web designer. On top of that, to make the website look legit, you will HAVE to have art assets. People will judge your book by its cover, and since you don't have backing from a publishing house this means either making your own cover (and again, it has to look good) or hiring someone to make a cover for you. Ironically enough, for a medium built entirely around words, no one has ever purchased a book from a website with nothing but words. A website will also have to have features like an author's bio (which you'll have to write yourself), and again, that has to look professional too.

I realize all of that is kind of shitty. As an emerging painter myself, it's the same kinds of things I'm having to deal with (getting and promoting my own shows, and convincing people that I'm serious enough to buy work from). You probably want your work to stand on its own, and in an ideal world it would, but the world we live in is far less than ideal. Customers, quite unfortunately (especially in worlds like art and literature, where clientele consider themselves to be sophisticated and intelligent), are quite often idiots. They're often incapable of judging a work of art or literature for themselves, and as such you have to tell them why your work is worth the price. Getting a publisher does a lot of this work for you, because people look at a published book and think "well, someone thought it was good enough to publish!" And as lukewarm a response as that is, if you don't have a publisher, you're going to have work hard just to get that.

Should you decide to take this route (or any other for that matter), please feel free to contact me regarding any issues I can help with. What I know is limited, I'm still an art student in his final semester after all, not a recognized professional yet. However, I have the benefit of some professional training in self promotion. Granted, it's directed at visual artists, not authors, but there's quite a bit of overlap in terms of what promotion entails. I know what a professional press release looks like, and I can help you write one. I know about writing proposals and artist bios. And while I'm not a graphic artist, and thus could only help you with the creation of art assets in a very limited capacity (if you were even interested in my help), I know enough that I can help you differentiate between professional graphic artists who are and aren't worth your time.

There are, of course, some other options for you as well. One of the big problems you're probably facing with getting publishers to consider publishing your work, is that you don't have a work history (or at least if you do, you haven't mentioned it here). And I'm not talking about work in the sense of a part time job, I'm talking about work strictly within the literary and artistic worlds. Much like the previously mentioned reviewers, for publishers time is also money, and they have to be convinced just to look at your work. The way in which most (though certainly not all) authors go about getting publishers to take them seriously is by writing and publishing short stories. Short stories, because they are short, are a lot easier to convince people to publish, and when you get them published you can add them to an author's resume, which will help convince publishers that you're worth considering publishing. Not only does it show that you're dedicated to the craft of writing as a whole, it also means that someone liked your work enough to publish it, and it probably means that some people have already read and liked it (and those people are more likely to buy your book, since they've already gotten a taste of your work.)

Another option would be to look for groups of emerging authors who work together to improve their writing and get it published. Doing this will accomplish a couple of important goals. First, working with other people will improve your writing and your storytelling skills, meaning that your work will be more appealing to a publisher. Secondly, working with other emerging authors will create a network, which is invaluable in the world of the arts. If one of the people you've been working with gets published, which is probable if the group you choose to work with is serious, then they gain some authority in the literary world, and if they're willing to plug your book a bit (presumably for all the help you gave them editing and improving their own) then that'll help you a lot in terms of getting people to take your book seriously.

There are a couple of books which you might find helpful (before I took up as a painter, I wanted to be an author, so I have done some research in that world). The first, which you hopefully already have, is the Writer's Market. This is a book which updates every year (so this years is called the 2013 Writer's Market) and contains a detailed list of anywhere you could go in hopes of getting published. It'll give you information about publishers, whether they accept unsolicited manuscripts (I.E. do they look at work from authors who don't have managers?), whether they charge a fee to look at your work, what kind of stories they're looking for, etc... The second is Stephen King's book On Writing. The first half of the book is King's autobiography, the second is advice on writing and getting published. Say what you will about King, but there's no denying that he's one of the most widely published authors out there, and his advice is worth listening to.

Finally, don't give up. Rejection is a big part of life for an artist working in any medium, whether it's literature, painting, music, or anything else. The simple fact is that there are so many people who want to do creative work, that to get noticed yours has to really shine. Perseverance is the name of the game, and if you keep at it, in time it'll pay off. Best of luck to you!
 

DasDestroyer

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Apr 3, 2010
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Forget e-books, teenagers read?
I jest, and while I can't say much about publishing or self-publishing, a lot of teens use their smartphones or tablets for reading e-books.