Should Illegal Immigrants have the same rights as U.S. citizens?

Recommended Videos

Dags90

New member
Oct 27, 2009
4,683
0
0
Snake Plissken said:
I LOOOOOVE how illegal immigration in the United States discussions are always just a slightly vague form of racism. We know that you aren't talking about "illegal immigrants". You're talking about Mexicans, because they're really the largest illegal immigrant demographic. Nobody would give a fuck if someone popped on down from Canada and decided never to go home, just like nobody would ever care if someone from Eastern Asia or fucking Belgium decided to just never go home.

Say what you mean.
Well, as long as it's not the Dutch.

My mom will do the same thing. She'll go on and on about how "these illegal immigrants don't want to assimilate" (Since when has cultural assimilation been the goal of citizenship? My mom's grandparents were illiterate in English) and completely look over the fact that a large portion of the seasonal workers at the boardwalk are illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe because she doesn't associate them with "illegal aliens".
 

Kaymish

The Morally Bankrupt Weasel
Sep 10, 2008
1,256
0
0
of course not they are there against the law contribute to crime and don't follow through with their responsibilities

to have rights you must have responsibilities to have one with out the other is despotic

therefore even though i don't live in the states and we have few to no illegal immigrants here i have to agree that illegal immigrants should not be given any civil rights
 

archvile93

New member
Sep 2, 2009
2,564
0
0
xdiesp said:
All US citizens are x-generation immigrants, as the only locals are the indians - or what remains of them after their genocide. So your choices boil down to: equal rights to all immigrants; or less rights to newcomers in order to exploit them (also called: the american way).
You know they don't have to come here. Considering they want to so bad I guess even the most corrupt people give them more than what they get in their own country.
 

Mcface

New member
Aug 30, 2009
2,266
0
0
Sir John the Net Knight said:
The keyword is ILLEGAL! They are breaking the law by being here. They have the right to be arrested, deported and to get in the back of the line.
This.
They should be deported and come here legally like everyone else.
 

Snake Plissken

New member
Jul 30, 2010
1,375
0
0
Dags90 said:
Snake Plissken said:
I LOOOOOVE how illegal immigration in the United States discussions are always just a slightly vague form of racism. We know that you aren't talking about "illegal immigrants". You're talking about Mexicans, because they're really the largest illegal immigrant demographic. Nobody would give a fuck if someone popped on down from Canada and decided never to go home, just like nobody would ever care if someone from Eastern Asia or fucking Belgium decided to just never go home.

Say what you mean.
Well, as long as it's not the Dutch.

My mom will do the same thing. She'll go on and on about how "these illegal immigrants don't want to assimilate" (Since when has cultural assimilation been the goal of citizenship? My mom's grandparents were illiterate in English) and completely look over the fact that a large portion of the seasonal workers at the boardwalk are illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe because she doesn't associate them with "illegal aliens".
Agreed. No more Dutch. Hear that Dutchies?! Stay over there!
/sarcasm
 

Flauros

New member
Mar 2, 2010
475
0
0
scorptatious said:
I'd like to hear what people here on the Escapist think about this issue.

Personally, I don't think they should. If you aren't going to make the effort to register yourself as a U.S. citizen, than you shouldn't even be in America. It isn't fair to actual U.S. citizens who were either born in America, or are immigrants who followed the rules and procedures to become U.S. citizens.

For those who support rights for illegals, I want to you to give logical reasons to why they should have the same rights. Because at the moment, I don't see why they should.

Hello there.
I think people have different (scratch that, COMPLETELY INCORRECT) ideas what rights mean. I saw them arguing on a very shady news channel if non citizens have should of rights or not, like due process and the like. Which is to say the least, disgusting. So, according to them, my wife who isnt a citizen YET, can be simply arrested for no reason, with no trial, for a crime she didnt commit. She doesnt have the right to a lawyer or anything. They were actually arguing that was the case. As if she was a non person.
And thats the best case scenario of what theyre talking about, a person without RIGHTS.

Im just hope your not watching the same news channel, and mistaking what theyre saying as "the right to vote". Well, of COURSE she cant vote. SHES NOT A CITIZEN YET
 

Dags90

New member
Oct 27, 2009
4,683
0
0
Flauros said:
I think people have different ideas what rights mean. I saw them arguing on a very shady news channel if non citizens have should of rights or not, like due process and the like. Which is to say the least, disgusting. So, according to them, my wife who isnt a citizen YET, can be simply arrested for no reason, with no trial, for a crime she didnt commit. She doesnt have the right to a lawyer or anything. They were actually arguing that was the case. As if she was a non person.
Well I mean, it's not like this sort of thing would lead to gross injustices like water boarding of innocent people.

OH WAIT.
 

Ertol

New member
Jul 8, 2010
327
0
0
Well...basic human rights and some common decency. But other then that no. If they want to come into the country they can wait. I know its supposed to be ridiculously long and challenging complete the process, so maybe we can work on that. But at the end of the day they are illegal and don't deserve U.S. citizen rights.
 

Aidinthel

Occasional Gentleman
Apr 3, 2010
1,743
0
0
Well I suppose the standard human rights apply, but given that illegal immigrants are by definition criminals they should be treated the same as any other lawbreakers.

That being said I do think our current immigration policy is too restrictive, and that we should raise or abolish the quotas on immigration. As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to be an American badly enough to leave their homes they deserve their chance at success here.

Another thing that just occurred to me is that before reading this topic I hadn't heard anyone suggest that illegals deserved full citizenship status. Seems like a strawman argument to me.
 

Baron von Awesome

New member
Jun 9, 2010
34
0
0
It's a very complicated issue. While the process of becoming a citizen is extremely complicated and in some cases almost impossible I think that it's almost more of a pragmatic decision on the part of the U.S. government than anything else. The developed world's wealth relies on the poverty of the developing world. I'm not a Marxist, but even I realize that my quality of life in the U.S. would be much lower were everyone in the world to have a fair shot. Also the limited amount of legal immigration and naturalization allows for only the best and the brightest of the developing world to immigrate. This further perpetuates the poverty of the poor by removing their fellow countrymen who could actually contribute to the growth of their own economy.

Illegal immigrants, specifically from south of the U.S. border, fill a very important role in the U.S. economy. Despite what many may think of them as just simply plundering the economy, and running home to Mexico. They often do the jobs that U.S. citizens see themselves as too good for such as construction, busing tables in restaurants and washing dishes, mass agriculture, and many other things. But I would also like to point out that while this system is corrupt in many ways it also has advantages for many illegal immigrants. In a restaurant a dishwasher could become a chef, or a construction worker could become a foreman. These realities exist, and I've seen them time and time again usually because the possible chef has proven to be a skilled and reliable worker that would work for less. However, as you can imagine this has a negative impact on many skilled workers in the U.S. chefs in chain restaurants like Chile's make nothing in the southwest, because an illegal immigrant who is maybe in the process of naturalizing or has just been around a while will work for less and communicate more efficiently with the kitchen staff who mostly speak only Spanish.

Although many point to smuggling and the drug cartels as a major part of illegal immigration from what I've seen I tend to disagree. I also believe that if legal immigration were expanded upon that the cartels would be easier to pick out. If someone noticed someone trying to smuggle across the border it would probably be more likely to be a smuggler rather than just another illegal immigrant. Also the extensive border is really almost impossible to completely wall off and restrict immigration. For those of you who are Canadians can you imagine the logistic that would be involved if nearly every American citizen who wasn't eligible for Canadian citizenship wanted to sneak across the border to Canada? There's not enough people in Canada to stop them! To be fair the border with Canada and the U.S. is a bit larger than the U.S. Mexico border, but not by too terribly much.

In other words, I believe that were the U.S. to make the correct moral choice they would expand legal immigration tenfold. However, if the U.S. were to make the pragmatic choice that would benefit its citzens the most, then I would do pretty much nothing and just pretend to do stuff when the public was riled up about it. As far as those American born chefs and construction foremen who have lost their jobs to cheaper labor? Well, I suppose they can always join the army. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*
 

Sinclair Solutions

New member
Jul 22, 2010
1,611
0
0
Irony said:
Well they should be give basic human rights, yeah, but if you give them the same rights as US citizens, what's the point of citizenship?
This, this, and this some more.

You can treat them like human beings, but if they want the rights guaranteed in the US, they should at least TRY to get citizenship. It may be a hard, long, difficult, and aggravating process, but it makes the results all the sweeter. Plus, when you are finally a citizen, you can no longer have that vulture of fear of getting caught sweeping over their head. I think everyone should have opportunity in America, but they should at least try to follow the rules we have for them first.
 

Yureina

Who are you?
May 6, 2010
7,098
0
0
This seems like an R&P topic...

As for me, no. With the knowledge that I personally know some illegal immigrants who you would never know were illegals for how easily they have blended into society, I think that illegally entering the country should not be rewarded. With that said... I also think that the US immigration policies happen to suck, and it takes an extreme amount of time for anyone to actually be able to immigrate to the US. If they fixed that problem... then the illegal immigration problem probably would go away as well.
 

AgDr_ODST

Cortana's guardian
Oct 22, 2009
9,317
0
0
..............HELL NO! and we sure as shit don't need to be giving them amnesty much less the same rights as natural born or legal immigrants who became citizens because they followed the damn rules...all that they deserve is to be arrested, deported and to have thier anchor baby kids sent back with them!
 

guntotingtomcat

New member
Jun 29, 2010
522
0
0
Depends on the rights. If they pay taxes, they should be entitled to everything that covers. If they abide by the laws of the country they're in, then they should be protected by those laws.
The only right citizenship comes with is the right to not get deported. Becoming a citizen is difficult, especially in America apparently, so it's unfair that people skip that queue in front of other people that play by the rules.
If you played by the rules and got your visa, great! If you didn't, I'm sorry but the fact that you live in a country does not give you the right to stay there. The government has to control it's population, or it can't cater to its needs.
 

Baron von Awesome

New member
Jun 9, 2010
34
0
0
AjimboB said:
Rewdalf said:
I am a US immigrant, and I had to go through the process of becoming a citizen.
I deserve my rights, so I don't agree to giving them to those who skip the necessary process...

I'm from Bulgaria if anyone is wondering, by the way...
This^^^

Hell, I'm from Russia. Do you know how hard it was to immigrate from Russia to America during the cold war? The only reason they let me in is because I'm of Jewish decent.
Doesn't this kind of disprove your point for a moral reason for why you were allowed to become a citizen? You are technically no better than any other person in Russia because of your Jewish descent. It just happened to play out well for you in this circumstance. (Which is not to say there weren't others for you and your family where they were unfairly treated, because of their Jewish descent.) How is this kind of discrimination fair or necessarily right.
 

Icehearted

New member
Jul 14, 2009
2,081
0
0
Rewdalf said:
I am a US immigrant, and I had to go through the process of becoming a citizen.
I deserve my rights, so I don't agree to giving them to those who skip the necessary process...

I'm from Bulgaria if anyone is wondering, by the way...
I've heard this same thing argued by people that immigrated from Mexico quite a lot. Clearly it's not a race issue for a lot of people, but for them and for folks like you it's a matter of working for something only to see others make no more an effort than to demonstrate inflated self-entitlement when they come to this country.

I'm all for immigration, hell, it's been said over and over that America is made of people from all over the world, it used to be one of our biggest strengths. I am against the exploitation of illegal immigration by both immigrants and companies like Microsoft (which I recall Bill Gates specifically defending large corporations using undocumented workers to save money).
 

PrimoThePro

New member
Jun 23, 2009
1,458
0
0
I feel like... This should be in the R+P section.
Well, don't they do the jobs no one else will? I don't see too much of an issue.