Should immigrants be required to integrate to receive benefits?

[krazykidd]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

How did that work out for them?

OT: Nope . By being there they are contributing. As long as they are following laws and such they should be left alone . This is of course if they are in the country legally . Also what the fuck do you mean by intergrate? Do you mean socialise and do as the people of the country ? Or do you mean just learn the language?

But how are they contributing? Think about it: he has six kids who are all in government funded schools (I assume, I doubt they could afford a private institution), he doesn't work, she barely works, and they basically are surviving off welfare. Besides sales tax, what are they contributing?

If someone comes and lives at my apartment and eats $100 worth of food a month, uses up $40 worth of utilities a month, doesn't cook or clean or do repairs , and then contributes $10 a month for rent, they are not 'contributing' anything.

"Integrate" is admittedly a broad term, but I do believe that people should do their best to learn the language of a country they move to, and I do believe that one should at least attempt to become familiar with the culture at large. That doesn't mean one needs to embrace it, but surrounding yourself only with people and aspects of your former culture leaves one closed off.

He had a sucessfull business. He was working helping the economy , contributing to society . Now he is in a rough patch . It's not like he got there on a boat , and decided to mooch off the government .

Also , intergrating is hard . More so depending on where you go . Racism , discrimination and prejudice and still very much present , while i'm not saying that's the case in this situation . People can be mean and downright disrespectful . It doesn't always make immegrats want to imbrace the culture . Also , it's easier to make friends from the same place as you . That's why you see in a lot of first world countries , visible minorities flock to the same place and often help each other out .

 

[Abomination]

Start learning the language or get benefits cut.

Seems like a easy enough solution to the problem.

He's been there since 1989. He's had 24 years to learn the damn language.

If I didn't put any effort into getting a job and I was unemployed my benefits would be cut. Knowing at least one of the national languages should be mandatory for residency... let alone unemployment benefits.

 

[Hero of Lime]

Forced? Hell no.
Encouraged? Definitely.

Sums up what I would say, but I would say strongly encourage because of the importance of a common language in a country. Though I don't see how any immigrant who is willing to go to another country would not want to be integrated into the culture, main language etc., it would like joining a club and not wanting to attend any meetings.

If I was willingly moving to another country with a different language, I would make sure to know enough to get by, if only for the practical reasons.

 

[MorphingDragon]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

How did that work out for them?

It worked out quite well actually whose cultural core still persists today.

It's a shame that the ruling class was nutters. Maybe it will work out better for the US.

 

[Mersadeon]

The only thing that really should be "required" is learning one of the official languages - and by that, I mean the languages the forms of that country are printed. I mean stuff like an obscure middle african language only spoken by one tribe simply doesn't require separate forms and translators to be kept. I'm not one of those "YOU HAVE TO INTEGRATE" people. So, if it comes to language, okay, I can understand the need to "integrate" , but not when it comes to culture. By the way, in Germany, they give you german lessons, you don't have to hire your own guy. So that guy really doesn't have an excuse. You only get your welfare if you go to your lessons. So, the state is educating you and PAYING YOU TO ATTEND. It's not "forcing" someone, it's saying "we're going to give you the money you need, if you take these lessons so that everything gets easier and we see you're trying". And it's not as if he didn't know the deal, the police doesn't knock on the door yelling "Surprise, now you will be forced to learn german or we take your money!".

 

[norashepard]

I think no fucking way.

Mainly because who decides what the culture is? In America, you really can't because while white people like to believe they are on top, they aren't nearly as prevalent as to think that white culture is American culture. In all of Europe, the Romani people are constantly booted from their homes, spit on, and even burned (in public!) because their culture is not valued in the European continent. They are not the only group of people with no home because of this. Look to the Kurds for another example. And what about in places like Rwanda, where culture was used as a way of singling out people to murder? Entire groups of people, killed relentlessly, based only on their culture. Should we follow that example?

No. We shouldn't. People can live where they want to live.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Define "integrate". Does everyone have to be the same? Hell, do people born here all have to be the same? Can you exclude native born people for being different?

Anyhoo, in this case, he ran a successful business for many years, and then it went under? That definitely sounds like someone you give welfare to.

 

[Miyenne]

Being Canadian and growing up right beside the university, I was the minority as a white girl. I think being surrounded by so many different cultures and languages is a wonderful thing.

I don't think anyone should be forced to integrate, because where I'm from there is no such thing. And it's beautiful. I strongly believe it made me a better person.

Now, to receive government benefits one should be a contributing member of society, but speaking the language certainly shouldn't be required, many people get by just fine with limited English here.

I also believe every person should learn at least two languages in their lifetime. Even if you're a native to a country that only has one official language. The world is so much smaller now and it would be best for everyone to be able to communicate with more people.

 

[Evil Smurf]

NO!

All people deserve respect and a good standard of living. White, black, gay, straight, immigrant, citizen, brony or b/astard.

 

[Gennadios]

Yes!

I won't even be trying to sugarcoat this, the economy is still terrible, I'm overworked, my yearly "raises" were 1.5% points too low to even cover for inflation, taxes have been going up, and my degree is useless because it's been two years without me finding an industry job because I hadn't been able to find an industry job and get the required two years of experience in the industry to land an industry job[sic].

I'm in pure "get as far as you can and shut the door behind you so people can't catch up" mode, my own country [US] already has more people than available jobs, I'm all for whatever it takes to discourage immigration. If lack of social services funding cuts my taxes, even better.

 

[Psychobabble]

Oh save us from the political correctness brigade. If you relocate to a different country and live there for years, yet don't learn the language the majority of the people in that country speak, use in day to day tasks, or to convey immediate dangers or what to do in an emergency, then you are willfully and functionally illiterate. It is not a crime against culture for someone to be expected to be able to functionally communicate with the brunt of society.

Oh menyelamatkan kita dari brigade kebenaran politik. Jika Anda pindah ke negara yang berbeda dan tinggal di sana selama bertahun-tahun, namun tidak belajar bahasa mayoritas orang di negara yang berbicara, gunakan hari ke hari tugas, atau menyampaikan bahaya langsung atau apa yang harus dilakukan dalam keadaan darurat, maka Anda sengaja dan buta huruf fungsional. Ini bukan kejahatan terhadap budaya bagi seseorang yang diharapkan untuk dapat fungsional berkomunikasi dengan beban masyarakat.

Oh achub ni rhag y frigâd cywirdeb gwleidyddol. Os ydych yn symud i wlad wahanol ac yn byw yno am flynyddoedd, ond nid ydynt yn dysgu iaith y rhan fwyaf o'r bobl yn y wlad honno yn siarad, y defnydd o ddydd i dasgau dydd, neu gyfleu peryglon uniongyrchol neu beth i'w wneud mewn argyfwng, yna eich bod yn fwriadol ac yn swyddogaethol anllythrennog. Nid yw'n drosedd yn erbyn diwylliant i rywun disgwyl iddynt allu cyfathrebu swyddogaethol â baich y gymdeithas.

Ho savu nin el la politika korekteco brigado. Se vi kopii al alia lando kaj tie vivas dum jaroj, tamen ne lernas la lingvon de la plimulto de la homoj en tiu lando paroli, uzi en la tago al tago taskoj, aŭ transdoni tuja danĝeroj aŭ kion fari en kriz, tiam vi memvole kaj funkcie analfabetaj. Ne estas krimo kontraŭ kulturo ke iu atendi por povi funkcie komuniki kun la pezon de la socio.

 

[Basement Cat]

I think YES!!! Americans should lead by example by learning Cherokee and Cheyenne!!!

Spoiler: Sing it, Paul Revere and the Raiders!!!

EDIT:

Sorry, but it took me a while to locate this xkcd strip.

Spoiler: xkcd: National Language

 

[frizzlebyte]

While I'd like for most immigrants to assimilate into their new homeland, it hasn't happened much throughout America's history for first-generation immigrants to successfully assimilate. Usually the third generation does, and in fact we are seeing this in action with the Mexican people who have come here, so I don't really have a problem with accepting that the first generation is going to stick out like a hammered thumb.

What I really have a problem with is being forced to be bilingual to get a job. But that really isn't the immigrants' fault, much the same way that not being able to wear religious symbols in the workplace isn't really the non-religious' fault. It's usually a business decision or the PC squad that does those things.

TL;DR: Encouraged? Can't hurt. Forced? Won't work anyway, and will just create more animosity, so no.

 

[Stupidity]

Oh save us from the political correctness brigade. If you relocate to a different country and live there for years, yet don't learn the language the majority of the people in that country speak, use in day to day tasks, or to convey immediate dangers or what to do in an emergency, then you are willfully and functionally illiterate. It is not a crime against culture for someone to be expected to be able to functionally communicate with the brunt of society.

Agree.
People look at this like some kind of magical rainbow village thing where everyone loves each other more for having completely different values, ideals and religions or languages.

The vast majority of people are uncomfortable dealing with people with real difference from themselves and not just a little bit. In a radically diverse community everyone hates each other.
Im not talking about about just religion/race/language or anything that simple.

A feminist scientologist pro choice luddite socialist is never going to respect or be comfortable around a catholic woman hating pro life futurist capitalist and when reinforced by groups that don't even speak the same language they are never going to convert each other either. All that will come from forcing them to play together is misery and suck.

So yes, if you immigrate to a country you should integrate so that your underlying values align and you cause as little friction as possible, which includes speaking the same language as the people you might meet.

 

[rednose1]

Did the dude pay taxes? Give him his welfare. That's the point of the system. It's not cool to take his tax money but then tell him to get fucked when he needs the assistance his taxes should allow him.

Yea, integration or not, this is my feeling. I don't like paying taxes either, but if I am in need, I at least expect the money I paid in.

As to integration overall, I don't really care about it one way or another. It'll happen either way, the article even mentions the children are used as interpreters, so when they grow up, they'll converse in German, while still keeping their Turkish qualities.

Immigrants coming to a country can keep their customs cultures all they want, but the societies still bleed together. That's what I like, a culture that changes, and not just in ways I expect. Keeps things interesting

 

[Little Woodsman]

It's a hot topic here in Colorado. There have actually been two attempts to pass legislation making Spanish the official language of the state. Now my paternal grandparents came here from another country, and my Mother came here from a different country. They all learned English as quickly as they possibly could--and as an interesting side-note my paternal grandparents did not encourage my Father to learn Italian, and my Mother did not encourage my siblings or I to learn Spanish. I'm all for people moving here to seek a better life, but what boggles my mind is that I frequently encounter immigrants from Mexico who have an attitude of "The United States sucks! Mexico is the greatest!" which makes me wonder why the heck they want to stay here.

In order for the people of our region to function effectively as a group we *need* a language of commonality, and the language that makes the most sense to use is English, as it is the language of the overwhelming majority of citizens in this state, and the country that this state is a part of. While I have sympathy for the difficulties faced by people who move to this area and do not speak the language, people move here from all over the world and I simply don't think it would be practical for the english-speaking people who live here to try to learn Spanish, Laos, Japanese, French, Lebanese, Polish, Saudi, Greek, Turkish etc...rather than having all the people who move to this english-speaking area learn english.

I don't have anything against people from Mexico in general, in fact I'll bend over backwards to help a person who doesn't speak english as long as said person is reasonably polite. I just don't think that they deserve *more* special treatment than people who move here from anywhere else.

I also happen to believe that people from all sorts of backgrounds, cultures and national origins coming together in this country is one of the very best things about the USA.

BTW, I have noticed that among our very high population of Mexican immigrants there is a great deal (and I mean a HUGE amount) of intolerance towards immigrants from countries other than Mexico. Just an observation.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Do you also provide free, conveniently-located language classes?

For that to work, wouldn't that require each class to be taught be someone speaking a language the people already spoke?

Otherwise sounds like a good idea.

 

[Bluestorm83]

Anyone who immigrates legally should, in my opinion, not be forced to lose their own whatevers... but at the same time, I who have been here speaking English my whole life should not have to learn any other language to accomidate them. People come into my work all the time, trying to speak Spanish, Italian, Polish, Greek, German, whatever to me. I say, "I'm sorry, I only speak English," and then we engage in charades until either I discover what they want or they get bored and come back with a translator.

My ancestors are immigrants. They came here after waiting on a list. When they got here, they kept the good of the old world (Growing your own vegetables, close knit family, delicious Italian food,) and then accepted simple facts of the U.S. (Learn English so people understand you, Register to vote, pay your taxes, go to Jury Duty,) because they realized that if their homelands were so damn great... they wouldn't have come to America for a better life.

That said, I'm a U.S. Citizen, and this is a German issue. I say we let Germans handle their own affairs.