Should it be illegal if you have sex with an underage girl you meet in an 18+ club

[Arizona Kyle]

Technically not pedophilia since a girl of 16 would most likely have gone through puberty.

Anywho, it may be illegal, but there isn't any intent. If she's in an 18+ place then it should be safe to assume that she's 18 or older. As long as it's consensual then I don't see the problem. Then again, where I'm from the age of consent is 15, so this whole 'statutory rape' if the girl isn't over 18 thing is foreign to me.

So Alabama or somewhere else in the world??? and damn 15 is pretty low age of consent hmm maybe that just means americans are immature??? ha ha ha making jokes at me self

Sweden actually, so no, not even near the states.

ik -_- thats why i added somewhere else in the world lol

 

[Alucard788]

It's almost as though we need a "manslaughter" charge of the sex world when it comes to the 18+ club problem.

But on the other hand, I don't really support flexibility on this. You should be responsible in who you lie down with, anything less should be discouraged, by the law necessarily since people (especially the greedy and the stupid) don't necessarily lessen to anything lighter or less forceful than it.

Yes, you can't legally verify if a person is the legal age if it's near that point at times, but you need to have some wits about you.

Stupidity, such as that of not thinking about what you're doing when you're about to have sex, CAN be a crime, and so can being deceived by a clever underage person wanting sex (we should note just how common it is - most young girls these days lose their virginity at the appalling age of 13, even lower in some countries).

We should also note that, let's face it, sufficiently under-dressed and attractive women can get into nightclubs often without even showing ID, because bouncers are encouraged to do that by owners. It's part of the culture in many places. Some of these women are probably underage. So the 18+ club idea in principle isn't even certain enough to rule that "everyone having sex in an overage club must not have known that the person is underage". That's too exploitable a loophole, it would be used very wisely by real perverts.

This sums it up nicely for me....and personally as a man I have to wonder what the hell is wrong with us.

I mean yes granted I'm gay but still, it's a wonder why some guys just don't start brandishing large wooden clubs, and whack women over the heads with them...dragging them back to the cave.

No one seems to want to take responsibility for what they do it with now a days. Hey if it feels good who cares how old she is right? And it seems like an army of people will justify it and tout that 'hey it's natural'.

I really wonder just how far we've come sometimes.

Not very far...

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Well it already wouldn't be paedophillia it would be statutory rape.

Paedophilia is a mental disorder, not a crime one can be convicted of. It has nothing to do with having sex with someone underage. A paedophile can commit a crime, but that crime wouldn't be paedophilia.

Just sayin'.

Homosexuality was considered a crime up until the 80's. Now it's considered perfectly normal and natural.
Just chew on that one for a while.

I'm not seeing a point. If you have one to make, please do so.

The point I'm making is that it seems the classification of mental disorder is thrown around with "alternative" sexualities depending on social acceptance. No acceptance? IT'S A DISORDER! Acceptance? It's perfectly natural!

Also, the law is not some infallible system of moral dictation. Morality as it is, is a fundamental fallacy due to the subjective nature of human consciousness.

Also, sex with those whom we now call "underage" has been common place in societies of times gone by, now we have age of consent laws that only prevent people from acknowledging that teenagers do, in fact, fuck, and that can only bring harm to those in question. Then you get situations like the hypothetical one proposed by the OP of this topic, ones like a 16 year old guy with a 15 year old girlfriend having sex being illegal (which, I'm sorry, is fucking ridiculous,) and so on.

If this forum is so full of rational, skeptical, logical people, then it is our duty to be skeptical of the law's validity and of the underlying moral compass dictating these laws. I don't see very much of that going on.
"Question everything."

 

[Turing]

I'm not entirely sure what part of "Even though she somehow managed to get into a nightclub, she's still underage" you're not getting. That vag is too young no matter where she is dude. Don't try to justify it.

I only got to think of it because me (at age 16) and friend (girl aged 15) went into a nightclub and a guy almost took her home but he only didn't because I managed to tell him that she was 15. Guy didn't think to ask because they were rejecting plenty of underage people at the door.

just out of curiosity was he somehow "taking her home" with him against her will, cause if that had been a mate and not a female friend there's a name for it and its cock-blocking

 

[JoJo]

I dunno lols. It's her fault. Minors should be charged for once. Not all paedophilian acts are cause by adults.

Charged for what exactly? The reason under-age sex is against the law is that minors don't have the maturity to consent, so charging them for it would nullify the point of the law existing in the first place.

Well it already wouldn't be paedophillia it would be statutory rape.

Paedophilia is a mental disorder, not a crime one can be convicted of. It has nothing to do with having sex with someone underage. A paedophile can commit a crime, but that crime wouldn't be paedophilia.

Just sayin'.

Homosexuality was considered a crime up until the 80's. Now it's considered perfectly normal and natural.
Just chew on that one for a while.

Ummm... are you saying that paedophilic sex should be legal? There's nothing inherently wrong with paedophilia as long as it's never acted on, but sex with children will always be wrong and is in no way comparable to the sex between two same-sex consenting adults.

OT: Depends on circumstances, there should be a defence if it could be reasonably believed that he or she was over 16 or 18 depending on where you live and you weren't aware of their age, however if they are evidently 12 or something then you should be proscuted fully.

 

[Alucard788]

Also, sex with those whom we now call "underage" has been common place in societies of times gone by, now we have age of consent laws that only prevent people from acknowledging that teenagers do, in fact, fuck, and that can only bring harm to those in question. Then you get situations like the hypothetical one proposed by the OP of this topic, ones like a 16 year old guy with a 15 year old girlfriend having sex being illegal (which, I'm sorry, is fucking ridiculous,) and so on.

If this forum is so full of rational, skeptical, logical people, then it is our duty to be skeptical of the law's validity and of the underlying moral compass dictating these laws. I don't see very much of that going on.
"Question everything."

Right...so you'd have no issues with a 45 year old man and a 12 year old girl right? hey it's natural!

Dear gods I thought we were suppose to be evolving...it looks like we just don't want to.

Things like this make me ashamed to be male...really.

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Also, sex with those whom we now call "underage" has been common place in societies of times gone by, now we have age of consent laws that only prevent people from acknowledging that teenagers do, in fact, fuck, and that can only bring harm to those in question. Then you get situations like the hypothetical one proposed by the OP of this topic, ones like a 16 year old guy with a 15 year old girlfriend having sex being illegal (which, I'm sorry, is fucking ridiculous,) and so on.

If this forum is so full of rational, skeptical, logical people, then it is our duty to be skeptical of the law's validity and of the underlying moral compass dictating these laws. I don't see very much of that going on.
"Question everything."

Right...so you'd have no issues with a 45 year old man and a 12 year old girl right? hey it's natural!

Dear gods I thought we were suppose to be evolving...it looks like we just don't want to.

Things like this make me ashamed to be male...really.

Did I say that? No. I said the attraction itself is perfectly natural. If one is actually a pedophile then they should have the respect to not put their attraction into action through the knowledge that it would more than likely cause psychological harm to the kid.
That doesn't make the attraction itself a mental illness.

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

words

If you want to discuss sex with children, do it elsewhere. It is banned in this forum and I want nothing to do with it or your opinion of it.

Bye.

Uh, that's what this topic was about in the first place?
"Should it be illegal if you have sex with an underage girl you meet in an 18+ club?"
=
"Discuss sex with children."

 

[Anjel]

The point I'm making is that it seems the classification of mental disorder is thrown around with "alternative" sexualities depending on social acceptance. No acceptance? IT'S A DISORDER! Acceptance? It's perfectly natural!

Also, the law is not some infallible system of moral dictation. Morality as it is, is a fundamental fallacy due to the subjective nature of human consciousness.

Also, sex with those whom we now call "underage" has been common place in societies of times gone by, now we have age of consent laws that only prevent people from acknowledging that teenagers do, in fact, fuck, and that can only bring harm to those in question. Then you get situations like the hypothetical one proposed by the OP of this topic, ones like a 16 year old guy with a 15 year old girlfriend having sex being illegal (which, I'm sorry, is fucking ridiculous,) and so on.

If this forum is so full of rational, skeptical, logical people, then it is our duty to be skeptical of the law's validity and of the underlying moral compass dictating these laws. I don't see very much of that going on.
"Question everything."

Thought I'd throw my opinion in here.

Homosexuality is a legal deviation of what is considered 'the norm' i.e. heterosexuality. It is no longer considered a disorder. I agree with you that the law changes and as such a 16 and 15 year old having sexual intercourse may be against the law now even though in most societies it is not even considered morally wrong (in the UK the legal age of consent is 16 anyway) but whilst the law states that it is illegal to do something, it is illegal to do something. Full stop. End of discussion.

 

[Alucard788]

Did I say that? No. I said the attraction itself is perfectly natural. If one is actually a pedophile then they should have the respect to not put their attraction into action through the knowledge that it would more than likely cause psychological harm to the kid.
That doesn't make the attraction itself a mental illness.

You didn't say that...but by saying the 'attraction is natural' seems like...just....why wyoud you even think that? Also 'more than likely cause harm' ?! No ya think?!

I'm a 33 year old gay man and in no way would i ever have a sexual attraction to children or teens, and don't tell me any different I know how I feel. Perhaps my brain is wired differently...perhaps I'm just strange or an alien.

It just makes me bristle with anger to see things like this get defended.

 

[intheweeds]

Opens a can of worms is the problem, it's harsh yes, but the problem is that it would legitimise in part underage consent, an opt out isn't an acceptable part of maintaining a law.
The law kind of has to be exact, and unfair in it's exactness.

Then there are problems with "laws" and we should find a better method or well, sigh, ok. I know the world is unfair but dammit it sucks.

Yeah I think you would get burned too, but I think afterwards you would have a seriously large lawsuit against the bar! Everyone gets whats coming to them, just in a roundabout time-wasting sort of way.
America - Fuck Yeah!

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

The point I'm making is that it seems the classification of mental disorder is thrown around with "alternative" sexualities depending on social acceptance. No acceptance? IT'S A DISORDER! Acceptance? It's perfectly natural!

Also, the law is not some infallible system of moral dictation. Morality as it is, is a fundamental fallacy due to the subjective nature of human consciousness.

Also, sex with those whom we now call "underage" has been common place in societies of times gone by, now we have age of consent laws that only prevent people from acknowledging that teenagers do, in fact, fuck, and that can only bring harm to those in question. Then you get situations like the hypothetical one proposed by the OP of this topic, ones like a 16 year old guy with a 15 year old girlfriend having sex being illegal (which, I'm sorry, is fucking ridiculous,) and so on.

If this forum is so full of rational, skeptical, logical people, then it is our duty to be skeptical of the law's validity and of the underlying moral compass dictating these laws. I don't see very much of that going on.
"Question everything."

Thought I'd throw my opinion in here.

Homosexuality is a legal deviation of what is considered 'the norm' i.e. heterosexuality. It is no longer considered a disorder. I agree with you that the law changes and as such a 16 and 15 year old having sexual intercourse may be against the law now even though in most societies it is not even considered morally wrong (in the UK the legal age of consent is 16 anyway) but whilst the law states that it is illegal to do something, it is illegal to do something. Full stop. End of discussion.

My original point was that perhaps as understanding of the attraction increases, so does acceptance.
Once disorder, now perfectly acceptable.

Not once did I condone sexual intercourse between adults and children or imply that I deem that to be acceptable in the slightest. If I did, I would have said so.

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Did I say that? No. I said the attraction itself is perfectly natural. If one is actually a pedophile then they should have the respect to not put their attraction into action through the knowledge that it would more than likely cause psychological harm to the kid.
That doesn't make the attraction itself a mental illness.

You didn't say that...but by saying the 'attraction is natural' seems like justification enough to me. Also 'more than likely cause harm' ?! No ya think?!

I'm a 33 year old gay man and in no way would i ever have a sexual attraction to children or teens, and don't tell me any different I know how I feel. Perhaps my brain is wired differently...perhaps I'm just strange or an alien.

It just makes me bristle with anger to see things like this get defended.

Christ. Why do people immediately jump to the conclusion that anyone who accepts that people who are attracted to children are no less "normal" than you or I (not that "normal" really exists anyway,) condone fucking children?!

I'm on your side here man.

 

[Alucard788]

The point I'm making is that it seems the classification of mental disorder is thrown around with "alternative" sexualities depending on social acceptance. No acceptance? IT'S A DISORDER! Acceptance? It's perfectly natural!

Also, the law is not some infallible system of moral dictation. Morality as it is, is a fundamental fallacy due to the subjective nature of human consciousness.

Also, sex with those whom we now call "underage" has been common place in societies of times gone by, now we have age of consent laws that only prevent people from acknowledging that teenagers do, in fact, fuck, and that can only bring harm to those in question. Then you get situations like the hypothetical one proposed by the OP of this topic, ones like a 16 year old guy with a 15 year old girlfriend having sex being illegal (which, I'm sorry, is fucking ridiculous,) and so on.

If this forum is so full of rational, skeptical, logical people, then it is our duty to be skeptical of the law's validity and of the underlying moral compass dictating these laws. I don't see very much of that going on.
"Question everything."

Thought I'd throw my opinion in here.

Homosexuality is a legal deviation of what is considered 'the norm' i.e. heterosexuality. It is no longer considered a disorder. I agree with you that the law changes and as such a 16 and 15 year old having sexual intercourse may be against the law now even though in most societies it is not even considered morally wrong (in the UK the legal age of consent is 16 anyway) but whilst the law states that it is illegal to do something, it is illegal to do something. Full stop. End of discussion.

My original point was that perhaps as understanding of the attraction increases, so does acceptance.
Once disorder, now perfectly acceptable.

Not once did I condone sexual intercourse between adults and children or imply that I deem that to be acceptable in the slightest. If I did, I would have said so.

If pedophilia ever becomes perfectly acceptable....then...I think I'll just put a bullet in my brain because that not the kind of humanity I want to live with.

I think I'll just stop posting before i say something I'm going to regret...my god...just...my god...

 

[Anjel]

Edit: Double post, Chrome ballsed up.

 

[Anjel]

snip

Yeah, really didn't word it that well. My argument was at homosexuality being brought into a conversation regarding paedophilia. The two shouldn't be used in the same argument. Statistics show that heterosexual paedophilia is more common than homosexual paedophilia... will update with link if I can find the source of that.




Edit: Not exactly what I was looking for but;

Using the best estimates from multiple sources, males appear to make up somewhere between 15% and 30% of all child molestation victims, with females making up the remaining cases.

Source [http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.htm]

 

[Alucard788]

Did I say that? No. I said the attraction itself is perfectly natural. If one is actually a pedophile then they should have the respect to not put their attraction into action through the knowledge that it would more than likely cause psychological harm to the kid.
That doesn't make the attraction itself a mental illness.

You didn't say that...but by saying the 'attraction is natural' seems like justification enough to me. Also 'more than likely cause harm' ?! No ya think?!

I'm a 33 year old gay man and in no way would i ever have a sexual attraction to children or teens, and don't tell me any different I know how I feel. Perhaps my brain is wired differently...perhaps I'm just strange or an alien.

It just makes me bristle with anger to see things like this get defended.

Christ. Why do people immediately jump to the conclusion that anyone who accepts that people who are attracted to children are no less "normal" than you or I (not that "normal" really exists anyway,) condone fucking children?!

I'm on your side here man.

it's the way your wording things. I know your trying to be logical but to some of us the thought of children being sexually wanted makes us want to protect them...I dunno I seem to get an automatic anger response to things like that.

Or it's perhaps because I've been through something like it...but I wont say any more.

Thank you for clearing that up.