So it's escape from new york, only without snake plissken (and in mexico).SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Should nations provide an anarchic zone for disgruntled citizens?
- Thread starter Blood Brain Barrier
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Make a nation like that? Eventually they organize and raid neighbouring nations, so no, bad idea.
No.... Nations don't just develop or not at random, people like to organize, and people like power. A no zone with no authority would eventually develop it's own authority, and then all you've accomplished is to establish a mini nation within your own, likely one ruled by some asshole warlord.
isn't that how australia was born? anyway, we could try it with antarctica, but it won't be pretty. i don't suspect it will turn out as well as before. >.>
I live in Denmark and we have a place like that in the middle of Copenhagen.It is called Christiania and is ironically enough an abandoned military base.The problem is that even though most who live there are peaceful it has become a place where dealers and other criminals hang out, and the police has decided that they can only go in there in force in other words need to be 60 man strong and dressed in riot gear.
Result. people are robbed outside and the criminals flee inside the "free-zone".
Result. people are robbed outside and the criminals flee inside the "free-zone".
You know, that's a nice thought and all, but you need to remember that you're sitting under a roof connected to the internet, with everything you'd ever need to survive a short drive away, a near infinite supply of clean water coming out of your walls, health care, law enforcement, etc. I mean, if you want to go start your own communist nation from scratch (and good luck with that) then more power to you, but society exists because it makes life better.
Does "first world problems" ring a bell?
Does "first world problems" ring a bell?
Sounds like someone's been playing too much Arkham City. In all seriousness, the idea of a zone for pure anarchy might sound acceptable on paper, but put in practice it just doesn't work. Eventually someone will rise up out of the anarchy to become a leader/warlord/dictator and BAM, there's another Mogadishu in every single country that created an anarchic zone.
Thing is, Christiania's main problem in that reguard is that the police and the state in general doesn't want to work with them in any other way than those that involves riot gear.Therarchos said:
For instance, Christiania does have an administration of sorts, as well as some rules. Most drugs that really do mess people up are prohibited even there. At one time, following several deaths in the community due to heroin (I -think- it was), the administration contacted the police with all the information they had on the dealers that sold the dangerous stuff, so that the police could more easily arrest them.
They didn't, however. These were left pretty much alone, while the police went for the "softer" dealers instead, which delayed a solution to the problem even longer.
The solution to criminal gangs and what else would be co-operation between the establishment and the Christiania administration. Thing is, of course, a lot of prestige is on the line... I'm afraid it'll be a long while more until we see a solution (that doesn't involve force).
Read The Penal Colony. Its a good book /e-book about a man who si falsely convicted of a rape-murder and sent to a prison colony located on a island off the shore of Britain, where murderers and terrorists are sent. The result is that they form several societies by themselves: some establish their own communities and a few roam by themselves, murdering and raping when they can. I found it interesting, and it was free when I got it.
But if you want true lawlessness, go live in an south african country. You could even start your own warband!
But if you want true lawlessness, go live in an south african country. You could even start your own warband!
The Norway bomber is a different matter. He wanted to change his own culture to something radically different. It was less about himself than what he saw around him. His situation is not one I'm concerned with - it is one which must be dealt with by the state.Lilani said:
That's not true. Mental trauma or hormonal imbalance is a medical diagnosis - that is, it is a comparison with what is considered "normal". Only in a group of other normals will they be considered imbalanced, and this is what is driving them to suicide.
Pleasure Island? It would be nothing of the sort. For 99% of people it would be a horrible place to live. Most people can't stand the idea of being in nature - having to live there with no protection of the law would be unthinkable.
That's the biggest obstacle. The problem is to maintain such a region would require outside maintainance, and that kind of ruins the idea of the whole thing. You'd have to stop a lot of technology and weapons from entering the zone, which would be difficult.bl4ckh4wk64 said:
If you think jail is a lawless place then methinks you've never been.Biodeamon said:
Even prisoners and animals create makeshift rules and pecking orders in strenuous situations.
I'd say your average concert or highschool campus is more lawless a place than a prison/jail.
Let's be clear, I'm not envisaging a utopia or anything of the sort. I personally would probably not want to live there. This is about the first world and the people who are so unsuited to it that a natural environment without any comforts whatsoever would be preferable. There are people of that sort in the first world, but they are outcasts because of private property laws they cannot find shelter, and because they can't get a job they cannot make a living. So it's a way of helping these people and those people in the first-world who consider them useless pests, which of course they aren't.Phlakes said:
Besides, there are groups of aborigines of Australia still living this way, and they get along fine without clean water, a roof over their head and internet.
That kind of thing is possible only with technology. Technology leads to hegemony over those without it.Axolotl said:
You don't get to throw him out of the discussion just because he disproves exactly what you claimed. You said people do these things because culture "doesn't have room for them." He did those things, but not for that reason. That doesn't make him irrelevant, quite the opposite in fact.Blood Brain Barrier said:
What sort of statistics do you have for this? Do you know the ratio of how many people who commit suicide because of an imbalance compared to how many commit suicide who aren't unbalanced? It would seem to me that is very important in making your case, and if you tried to actualize your little plan knowing who is just "maladjusted" and who is actually "imbalanced" would be very relevant. Drug use and socio-economic standing are also important to suicide rates, as well.
I just knew you'd say something like that. I wasn't referring to a utopian place of peace and pleasure. I was referring to the story of Pinocchio. You know, Pleasure Island--a place where all the unruly boys went to make a mess and do all the things they aren't allowed to do when subject to the law and adult supervision. The place that every little kid dreams of at some place in their life. The place that ultimately lead to their downfall in the story.
You're assuming a 'murderer' is something that exists in its own right, and will exist outside the culture that classifies and condemns it as such. An individual is not cut off from the rest of the world - he or she is influenced and created by it, and in turn influences the environment. Besides that, murder is a legal concept, and legal concepts obviously don't exist in an anarchic region.Hero in a half shell said: