Should Skyrim have a Karma system?

[TheFinnishGamer]

I think not, but if the developers decide to include such a thing it should not be as black and white like: Option A: Feed the poor, adopt an orphan and be jesus christ incarnate, Option B: Steal candy from a baby, go kick puppies just for the lulz and throw a bag of kittens into the ocean.

No, what I think is that there should not be a Karma system, rather let the players mold their own view of good and bad, let them make the choices they deem appropriate, and as a result the people around you would change their opinions of you based on what they think is right.

For example: If a villager would give you a task to do something and you accepted but then you would be confronted by a different guy who askes you to do the opposite thing, neither of these choices would be clearly good or bad so you would have to choose, and based on the choice you made one of guys would dislike you and one would like you and the people of the village would have different opinions of these tasks so based on your choice the quest givers and the people that agree or disagree with them would dislike or like you, and imagine that on a grand scale, i would enjoy that would you?

 

[IBlackKiteI]

There is no good and evil, there is only what different people think of your actions, and how they view you.

Bingo. Developers take note.

TL;DR: Fable... you're doing it wrong.

Don't remind me...
-

Exactly as you said, it would be much better to forgo all forms of direct good and evil (in fact don't even mention the terms) and give only the various views different groups and people have on your actions and leave the fucking player to decide which is the best choice instead of the dumbass dev's cramming their often narrow minded views in there, which the player pretty much has to abide by or else their experience of playing the game suffers somehow.

In other words moral choice and karma systems as they are now fucking suck, but they have a metric shitton of potential.

 

[VGC USpartan VS]

Karma System: No.

Faction System: Yes.

 

[Hedonist]

I would love to see the world reacting to my actions in Skyrim.
But karma systems don't really work in my opinion. In most games it feels like you're manipulating the system, especially if the show the positive karma points. But I would love it if it was all behind the scenes, so that the only way to see your karma level is by watching how the world reacts to you.

 

[badgersprite]

Other than fame and infamy, no. Karma systems that assign points to actions don't work, because it actually removes the element of choice and conflict. You're just going to pick whichever answer gives you good points or bad points instead of actually thinking about it or playing your own character.

Karma systems are the opposite of complex, meaningful choices. Skyrim should be full of complicated decisions that test the way you think and leave you feeling the emotional impact of the decision, and leaving you with a real sense of your character. Attaching arbitrary numerical rewards to those decisions is counter-productive to that, since it largely removes any element of thought or consideration you put into that decision. You'll just pick the option that the game tells you is the good one without thinking about whether you or your character agree or not.

Hell no, not in the traditional sense anyway.

In my opinion, a good/evil system is extremely irritating and generally a poor design. I shouldn't need a game to tell me if I'm being good or evil; the storytelling should be good enough to convey that without a meter. This is especially important considering that games with good/evil often leave no space of subtlety. Everything is either positive or negative, as opposed to heroic acts for the wrong reasons or horrific ones with the best of intentions, both of which are far more interesting from an RP and story point of view.

Instead, 'morality' should be conveyed through reputation with both people and factions, like in Dragon Age where your party members judged your actions from their own points of view rather than the game dictating to you that a sacrifice for the greater good was in fact evil. Preferably morality would be more than just a bar, so some actions might be unforgivable, or other might make you a hero to a faction through sheer importance. I remember an immersion shattering moment in DA2 for example, where Anders would have willingly helped me capture escaped mages with nothing more than a grumble and gain in rivalry points. It would have made more sense to me for him to storm off and refuse to speak to me again, even over something as 'petty' as a sidequest.

I agree with this comment.

Moreover, I've had it happen where the game disagrees with me over what's "good" or "bad". Having a binary system of morality removes a huge element of personal choice as well as your ability to characterise your protagonist. If you value, for example, freedom more than equality, or equality more than freedom, then it sucks to be you if the game designers think differently from you. Moreover, if there's one thing I hate about karma systems it's the chickenshit way game devs make both choices completely consequence free. Being good or evil has no impact because you can still solve every quest and still have every party member and still get every reward. So what difference does it actually make? There's always some way you can play that makes everyone like you, because god forbid players actually have to think or figure a problem out on their own.

Instead of having the game tell you "WHOOPS YOU MADE THE EVIL DECISION", it's far more effective to have a morally gray world where people disagree. As you said, it makes far more sense if certain characters view you as the bad guy for making certain choices while others would agree with you for making certain ones (without having points flash up every time this happens, mind you). In a game like Skyrim, having complete strangers react this way to you because of an intricate behind the scenes web of factions, affinity values to other NPCs and so on would create a really vibrant world.

 

[GraveeKing]

I don't really see how the Elder scrolls ever needed a karma system.
If you stab someone then a bunch of guards come after and harass you, that and anyone else who liked the person you stabbed. If you're good you get items.
You don't NEED karma in the elder scrolls games. Why would you? i mean say you're stealing an apple and you lose karma for it - what if you were grabbing it as a thief or part of a fencing for money quest? It's silly you lose karma - the risks and rewards from doing 'good' or 'evil' quests give the same outcome.
So nah, it does not need a karma system

 

[TheKramers]

If you've played fable, infamous or even red faction 2. You'll know what I'm talking about. Do you think it should have a Karma system? If you think it should then should impact the endings? Post why you think there should/should'nt be one.

I liked that you listed Fate, but you should've also listed KOTOR, those two are by far the most notable examples of a karma system And I also believe the Fame/Infamy system worked well and should remain through to Skyrim.

I don't think an actual karma system applies to the elder scrolls game because it is much less linear than say KOTOR. But Fable made it work and that wasn't linear at all. Oh well, I just can't imagine a karma system working properly in an elder scrolls game. Besides, I think it would kind of betray the medieval tone that this game sets forward, where the fame/infamy system compliments it well.

 

[TheKramers]

Karma System: No.

Faction System: Yes.

Those are two totally different things, your post is invalid. Besides, what would elder scrolls be without factions? xD

 

[Metalchair]

oblivion already had that, its called fame and infamy

 

[Pengowen]

no



simply put

 

[ChupathingyX]

Karma System: No.

Faction System: Yes.

Those are two totally different things, your post is invalid. Besides, what would elder scrolls be without factions? xD

I think he was referring to the reputation system in Fallout: New Vegas.

 

[Ghengis John]

If you've played fable, infamous or even red faction 2. You'll know what I'm talking about. Do you think it should have a Karma system? If you think it should then should impact the endings? Post why you think there should/should'nt be one.

It already did, in a matter of speaking and has since at least morrowind. I'm sure a bunch of people have pointed it out already. No if you mean should it be mroe active in the game world? I dunno. Part of me says it couldn't hurt, and yet another says why reward people for going to extremes of a scale if that wouldn't appeal to them anyway?

 

[ilspooner]

Nah, I don't think it should have a karma system. I quite liked Oblivions fame and infamy system. I think karma is getting a little old.

 

[xXCrocmonXx]

Why don't you take the Karma system out, and just have characters react to my choices in quests? I mean, especially if you're not going to fix how a horse can report me to the Guard for killing its rider while stealthed and I get "SCUM'd" to death, I'm pretty sure just having the characters go "Wow you're a dick" for slaughtering townspeople indiscriminately will make me feel better than "You lost karma" and showing me a frowny face.

The frowny face actually encouraged me to be a dick, because it always followed the Vault Boy smiley face when I crippled limbs. "LOL YOU BROKE HIS LEGS" then "Aw you lost karma..."

Don't add karma to Skyrim, just make the NPCs call me an asshole. So that if I care, I'll feel it, and donating a billion water bottles to some thirsty hobo outside the city won't repair me sacrificing fifteen young children and thirty-six old people to Dagoth Ur.

 

[Jekken6]

I would say use a deeper version of the reputation system used in New Vegas

 

[GoGummiBear]

Nah, I want to play the good guy,but I also wanna rob people for everything but the clothes on their back (and if those are any good i'll kill them and nick their clothes too)

 

[SammiYin]

No, karma as one of the worst systems in Fallout, considering it didn't do anything