Should the Internet be Policed?

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Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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James Joseph Emerald said:
Is that such a bad thing? A public Internet which is kept safe, and a darknet for everyone who loves anarchy. After all, the darknet will always exist. What we're talking about is catching criminals who operate in plain sight, attacking citizens in the open streets, so to speak.
So you don't really want safety, you want the illusion of safety. Especially since almost none of those crimes will go away, and once you have said darknet, you will have effectively let them go at it.

It's okay, in other words, for kiddy fiddlers to spread child porn, as long as it doesn't happen where you might see it.

Or, more problematically, where the "internet police" might see it.

To me, this sounds like putting your thumb over that dark spot on your X-Ray. Sure, you don't see the problem, but by ignoring it you are neither treating it nor stopping its potential spread.
 

Neonit

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Dec 24, 2008
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i think it works fine atm. you go on for example forums, its policed by mods and such.
too much control and we will live back in propaganda driven world where nothing is sure..... oh wait......

anyway, i think humanity grew up enough to handle such big toy as internet, lets not make humanity stupider than it is, k? too much "police" and you can kiss that last fragment of "freedom" goodbye.
 
Jun 16, 2010
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Zachary Amaranth said:
But you asked why people are against regulating the internet, and such regulation usually comes in the form of changes to the law. You even noted loss of anonymity, which would involve legal changes beyond merely "restructuring."
Yes, but it's not a black-and-white issue. Most things are regulated in ways you're not even aware of. For example, McDonald's restaurants are actually designed to make you uncomfortable and want to leave as soon as possible (bright lights, loud crappy music, hard furniture, even their colour scheme is chosen to be unsettling). Airport security is another good example: in the early days of commercial airlines there was actually massive outcry in America when they stopped allowing people to take their concealed firearms on-board. Now look at us, we're happy as long as we're not being X-Rayed and molested, though when that does happen most people accept it.

The point is, regulation is a part of life, a ubiquitous shade of grey that acts as a way to keep masses of stupid, irresponsible or sinister people from hurting themselves or each other. Do you really think people are smart, responsible and noble enough to be able to handle it themselves?

neonit said:
anyway, i think humanity grew up enough to handle such big toy as internet, lets not make humanity stupider than it is, k? too much "police" and you can kiss that last fragment of "freedom" goodbye.
Freedom is something we partially trade for safety. How much freedom we give away is the part that needs to be figured out carefully, but trying to have your cake and eat it too is foolish. All that freedom will count for nothing if you're made the victim of a serious cyberattack. And what will you turn to then?

Zachary Amaranth said:
To me, this sounds like putting your thumb over that dark spot on your X-Ray. Sure, you don't see the problem, but by ignoring it you are neither treating it nor stopping its potential spread.
Of course you are stopping it. I'm just mirroring exactly how the police operate in real life. You don't go down to every crackhouse and brothel and street corner and bust everyone you see. Nobody has the resources to do that, let alone the prison space for that many convicts; and the only real difference you've made is providing the opportunity for another gang to move in. So what they do, instead, is regulate the criminals. Make sure they keep to their own space, and affect as few innocent citizens as possible. Set out the rules, and get them to self-regulate. That way, the only time you have to expend resources is to keep them in line, rather than constantly chasing after them. It's not ideal, but this is what people who study security, like me, are taught.


My point, to both of you, is this: you can either have well-thought out regulations devised now, by academics who understand the ethical and social considerations involved. And accept them. Or, you can wait until some mega-corporation like Microsoft gets a big enough black eye from cyberterrorism that they decide to take matters into their own hands. They'll use financial pressure to coax the media and politicians into supporting some bill they've written up that gives them the right to secure their own profits by any means necessary. And the opportunity to have a fair, unbiased regulatory system will be lost, just because people were too "meh" about it the first time.
 

jpoon

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Mar 26, 2009
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Honestly I would much prefer the internet to be open and unrestricted. People can generally protect themselves with a little know-how and knowledge. There is little doubt that there should be action taken by police in many situations when crimes are committed but the internet as a whole DOES NOT need to be policed and a huge sum of the populace should not be spied upon.

Protect yourself and you'll respect yourself a lot more for it.
 

jpoon

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Mar 26, 2009
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James Joseph Emerald said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
But you asked why people are against regulating the internet, and such regulation usually comes in the form of changes to the law. You even noted loss of anonymity, which would involve legal changes beyond merely "restructuring."
Yes, but it's not a black-and-white issue. Most things are regulated in ways you're not even aware of. For example, McDonald's restaurants are actually designed to make you uncomfortable and want to leave as soon as possible (bright lights, loud crappy music, hard furniture, even their colour scheme is chosen to be unsettling). Airport security is another good example: in the early days of commercial airlines there was actually massive outcry in America when they stopped allowing people to take their concealed firearms on-board. Now look at us, we're happy as long as we're not being X-Rayed and molested, though when that does happen most people accept it.

The point is, regulation is a part of life, a ubiquitous shade of grey that acts as a way to keep masses of stupid, irresponsible or sinister people from hurting themselves or each other. Do you really think people are smart, responsible and noble enough to be able to handle it themselves?

neonit said:
anyway, i think humanity grew up enough to handle such big toy as internet, lets not make humanity stupider than it is, k? too much "police" and you can kiss that last fragment of "freedom" goodbye.
Freedom is something we partially trade for safety. How much freedom we give away is the part that needs to be figured out carefully, but trying to have your cake and eat it too is foolish. All that freedom will count for nothing if you're made the victim of a serious cyberattack. And what will you turn to then?

Zachary Amaranth said:
To me, this sounds like putting your thumb over that dark spot on your X-Ray. Sure, you don't see the problem, but by ignoring it you are neither treating it nor stopping its potential spread.
Of course you are stopping it. I'm just mirroring exactly how the police operate in real life. You don't go down to every crackhouse and brothel and street corner and bust everyone you see. Nobody has the resources to do that, let alone the prison space for that many convicts; and the only real difference you've made is providing the opportunity for another gang to move in. So what they do, instead, is regulate the criminals. Make sure they keep to their own space, and affect as few innocent citizens as possible. Set out the rules, and get them to self-regulate. That way, the only time you have to expend resources is to keep them in line, rather than constantly chasing after them. It's not ideal, but this is what people who study security, like me, are taught.


My point, to both of you, is this: you can either have well-thought out regulations devised now, by academics who understand the ethical and social considerations involved. And accept them. Or, you can wait until some mega-corporation like Microsoft gets a big enough black eye from cyberterrorism that they decide to take matters into their own hands. They'll use financial pressure to coax the media and politicians into supporting some bill they've written up that gives them the right to secure their own profits by any means necessary. And the opportunity to have a fair, unbiased regulatory system will be lost, just because people were too "meh" about it the first time.
We already have that piece of shit bill getting funneled through by the real terrorists (washington), it's called SOPA!
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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James Joseph Emerald said:
Yes, but it's not a black-and-white issue. Most things are regulated in ways you're not even aware of.
And yet, that's not what people have been opposing, making it irrelevant to your question.

Of course you are stopping it. I'm just mirroring exactly how the police operate in real life.
No you're not. You're just fostering the underground.
 

Ragnarok185

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Oct 14, 2011
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The great thing about the Internet is that fact that's its an anarchy. you don't have to worry about what you say and have the shit beaten out of you by people who disagree. The Internet is a like a sanctuary almost.

I WILL DESTROY THE HUMAN RACE IF THEY EVEN TRY POLICE THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!.

Power corrupts people and to give people power over the internet is worse than someone posting child pornography.

Life is not perfect and it never will be.
 

Argtee

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Oct 31, 2009
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No way! We'll all get back-traced!

Seriously though, the internet needs to be in chaos. It keeps us on our toes!
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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How shall I put this?

It's not a matter of 'Should it?'. That's the question everyone seems obsessed about while utterly missing the big one: "Can you?". And the answer is..."No, you can't, actually.". You don't have the resources or the mandate from the masses. Any mission like that with two strikes against it is bound to incur the third one soon after with some sort of boneheaded maneuver like blocking important sites.

*Looks over at SOPA*

[HEADING=1]DING DING DING DING DING!!![/HEADING]
 
Jun 16, 2010
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FalloutJack said:
How shall I put this?

It's not a matter of 'Should it?'. That's the question everyone seems obsessed about while utterly missing the big one: "Can you?". And the answer is..."No, you can't, actually.". You don't have the resources or the mandate from the masses. Any mission like that with two strikes against it is bound to incur the third one soon after with some sort of boneheaded maneuver like blocking important sites.

*Looks over at SOPA*

[HEADING=1]DING DING DING DING DING!!![/HEADING]
The problem is that nobody gets as far as the "can you?" issue.

Here is the problem:
Large scale cyberattacks are increasing, both in their scale, damages, and the ease by which they are enacted. Annually tens of thousands of people are the victims of scams worldwide. Spamming and child pornography are both billion dollar underground industries, generating more and more profit for members of organised crime every year. Cybercrime is getting bigger and more sophisticated; meanwhile efforts to stop it are hamstrung by the majority of people who don't really know or care enough to let the government even try.

Eventually (and I'm talking in the next couple of years), cybercrime will become a very serious issue. Something will happen that works all the voters up into a panic. And they'll be demanding the government step in and protect them.
SOPA is a good example of the type of corporate-serving bill that could get opportunistically passed in the wake of that.

My suggestion is that instead of just torching SOPA and being done with the debate, it should be re-worked into something that is actually fair and just. Anarchy always comes to an end eventually, ignoring that is naive and short-sighted. The best course of action is to pre-emptively come up with a system that most people can agree on, before someone else comes along and does it for us.