Should there be criteria to permit people to buy a four by four?

[Iron Mal]

I still remember hearing somewhere that apparantly man is only actually responsable for about 3% of the Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere (and that the largest sources of it are decomposing plants, volcanoes and forest fires...all things which are natural occurances) and while oi is depleting (it's hardly en endless supply) I'd say that we're not in a state where we need to start rationing it and imposing bans on high impact devices.

Of course, environmentalist messages do tend to be subject to a fair amount of hyperbole since I'm fairly certain 'DOOM IS NEAR! GLOBAL WARMING IS GONNA KILL US ALL AND THE OIL SHORTAGE WILL END CIVILISATION AS WE KNOW IT BEFORE WE EVEN HAVE GRANDKIDS' gets a lot more people to listen than 'well we have noticed a bit of a worrying trend, nothing to worry about immediately but it would be advisable if we try to be careful and have greater management of how we use natural resources'.

As for people with off-road cars in urban areas, it's a little annoying, so what?

You mean that families have the audacity to pick a large car when that's actually very practical for what an average familie's activities may be?

They dare to pick a car with a lot of space for extra luggage and passengers and that is more sturdy and durable so their kids can remain safe in the event of a car crash?

Those motherfuckers.

 

[Iron Mal]

Of course there should be criteria. Some kind of questionnaire at the car dealer's, for example.

- Are you white and middle class?
- Are you an obnoxious ****?
- Are you American?
- Are you a hyper-protective mother with an out-of-control nesting instinct?
- Do you honestly believe petrol is an infinite resource?
- Does the entire road system exist for your exclusive use?

If you tick three or more of the above, here's your new car!

Hilarity of not very good satire aside, I do take issue with the last question you suggested there because in my experience the people who whine the loudest about 'what!? do you think the whole road is yours or something?' usually tend to be of the devout belief that the road is in fact mine, how dare this SUV-humping Philistine come along and contest my divine right to hog the road?

How dare he!?

 

[Batou667]

Snippedy

Similarly, cyclists. "Yeah, I'm going to cycle my lycra-clad ass at 5mph directly in front of your vehicle, weaving across the road so you can't overtake, and when you DO overtake I'm going to glare at you like you just killed my mother. Oh, and I just jumped four red lights in a row, problem, law?"

You're quite correct. I firmly believe that everyone is an inconsiderate road user except for me.

 

[BringBackBuck]

ITT: Someone trying to tell someone else what they can and can't buy based on their own personal preferences and not those of the person in question.

Two things, OP.

One: She has a right to buy whatever the fuck she wants. Why should she give up her Land Rover because YOU don't think it's appropriate? Nobody made you king. You have no more a right to tell her what she can and can't drive as I do.

Two: She would have done that in a car too. The problem is not what she was driving, but how she was driving it. Oblivious dipshits are a hazard whether they're in a Hummer or a Smart Fortwo.
tl;dr: Stop trying to force others to drive what you think they should drive because of your friend's car getting trashed. If she can afford the fuel she has every right to drive that Land Rover.

This rather eloquently sums up my feelings on the matter. People can drive whatever they want to drive, other people's feelings on the matter are irrelevant. There are plenty of examples of bad driving in specific cars that I've seen, but I wouldn't presume to suggest that people shouldn't be allowed to drive those cars.

umm..no. People can't drive whatever they want. There are actually heaps of road safety laws to stop you driving, for example, this:

Government regulation of vehicles based on their safety to other cars and pedestrians is already happening, and I think that is a good thing.

Humongous disagrees.

 

[mikey7339]

SUVs, 4X4s, large trucks and diesel trucks should not be allowed to be sold to anyone unless they have a legitimate purpose for them, such as owning a landscaping company.

If you are just buying one as a status symbol or to haul a large item once in a blue moon then you need to pull your head out of your ass and buy something with reasonable fuel economy and size. I am sick of seeing these gigantic pristine trucks everywhere that have never seen a hard days work in their lives. All they do is make a ton of noise and throw even more pollution into the air. If you are so vain that you need some gigantic shiny truck for no other purpose then to call attention to yourself and scream "LOOK AT ME!", something is wrong with you.

ITT: Someone trying to tell someone else what they can and can't buy based on their own personal preferences and not those of the person in question.


Two things, OP.

One: She has a right to buy whatever the fuck she wants. Why should she give up her Land Rover because YOU don't think it's appropriate? Nobody made you king. You have no more a right to tell her what she can and can't drive as I do.

Two: She would have done that in a car too. The problem is not what she was driving, but how she was driving it. Oblivious dipshits are a hazard whether they're in a Hummer or a Smart Fortwo.




Let me run off some valid reasons a suburbanite would obtain such a vehicle.

1: Seats nine people as well as their stuff.
2: Shrugs off snow and ice that would stymy a FWD sedan
3: Can tow several thousand pounds without any issue
4: Carries far more cargo than an estate could
5: Allows one to more easily visit relatives in the countryside with driveways a 2WD can't readily handle.


For all you know she was only driving that because her normal car was in the shop and she had no choice.


tl;dr: Stop trying to force others to drive what you think they should drive because of your friend's car getting trashed. If she can afford the fuel she has every right to drive that Land Rover.

Why does this not surprise me coming from someone with Clarkson for an avatar. No, you do not have the right to buy whatever you want. I can't buy a ton of crap because it is inherently dangerous. To counter your other points:

1: Unless you are doing this regularly, like on a daily basis, then you should be pooling in multiple vehicles when this need arises. Otherwise you are just wasting gas and polluting unnecessarily.

2: With a little skill and experience my old Camaro with bald tires shrugged off a foot of snow and got me home just fine multiple times. And with almost all modern cars having electronic stability and traction control, your point is invalid. My Corolla won't even allow me to get anywhere near the point of losing control with those turned on, even if I want it to.

3: Once again, unless you are doing this regularly you are just pointlessly wasting gas and polluting. This is what tow trucks are for.

4: Only valid point, but again, unless you are using the extra cargo space regularly you are just pointlessly wasting gas and polluting.

5: That is just idiotic, my car does just fine parking out in fields, gravel, etc. I have never encountered any place I thought might cause my car trouble and I go out to the rural parts of the state regularly.

 

[SovietPanda]

SUVs, 4X4s, large trucks and diesel trucks should not be allowed to be sold to anyone unless they have a legitimate purpose for them, such as owning a landscaping company.

And who's to decide what counts as 'legitimate purpose' or 'regular basis'. If i can afford the vehichle, and the use of gas or pollution isn't a concern to me personally i have every right to have the vehichle. Personally i drive a tiny hyundai because im pretty poor. But my old man always owned a big V8 landcruiser in addition to his company car. It was useful for towing the boat to the river on occasions. and helped us haul a pile of paving stones home once. but they were the only "legitimate purposes" it was ever used for. The rest was just becuase he enjoyed driving around in a big high set noisy old cruiser. He worked hard for the money to be able to make that desicion for himself and you want to say he can't? You sir are a facist. simple as that.

 

[mikey7339]

SUVs, 4X4s, large trucks and diesel trucks should not be allowed to be sold to anyone unless they have a legitimate purpose for them, such as owning a landscaping company.

And who's to decide what counts as 'legitimate purpose' or 'regular basis'. If i can afford the vehichle, and the use of gas or pollution isn't a concern to me personally i have every right to have the vehichle. Personally i drive a tiny hyundai because im pretty poor. But my old man always owned a big V8 landcruiser in addition to his company car. It was useful for towing the boat to the river on occasions. and helped us haul a pile of paving stones home once. but they were the only "legitimate purposes" it was ever used for. The rest was just becuase he enjoyed driving around in a big high set noisy old cruiser. He worked hard for the money to be able to make that desicion for himself and you want to say he can't? You sir are a facist. simple as that.

I don't care if I sound like a fascist, this is my biggest pet peeve in the world. And I love how people throw around political standings such as 'socialist' and 'fascist' and 'communist' whenever they get offended at someone's opinion; politics has nothing to do with this. Owning one of these monstrosities simply for the purpose of owning it as a status symbol, to me, only shows that you are vain and have no sense of stewardship towards the Earth. The pollution may not be a concern to you but it is to every other living thing. People need to put aside this stupid, childish sense of self entitlement and the "I can do whatever I want and you can't tell me otherwise!" attitude for the sake of all other life on this planet.

EDIT: Also because this keeps coming up. I don't recall seeing in our bill of rights, or any other countries equivalent document, that you have a right to buy motor vehicles or let alone drive. It was spelled out very clear for me in driving school that driving is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Ledan]

No... because it makes it harder for us here that live in Africa.
But no, you don't need them in the city, i guess. Like automatic weapons, dangerous things shouldn't be available to civilians.
Although I feel weird when the cars are so low in europe.

 

[Esotera]

For people who live in cities, yes. A landrover is pretty much essential around where I live, so they do have their uses.

 

[Craorach]

Of course they should be available to people who need them.. be it for work, for hauling heavy stuff on a regular basis, or because the place they live has a lot of difficult terrain.

But those are all highly specialised requirements, which four by fours are designed for. Just like.. for example.. heavy trucks, minibuses, high performance motorcycles and forklifts are specialised for their duties.

All those things require specialist training to use because they are any combination of harder to handle, more powerful, designed to carry heavy loads or more dangerous to other road users.

Four by fours are all of the above in the hands of an untrained individual, and yet people are permitted to buy them.. and other high performance, specialist, vehicles which are still classified as road cars.. just because they have the money.

I find it hilarious that we define between a manual and an automatic licence, but not between a Mini and a Landrover. Just as funny as the fact that we define between different powers of motorcycle, and not between different powers of car.

 

[everythingbeeps]

I can only assume all the women-driver jokes have been made in this topic?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Youre reply is so... strange. You are a strange person. I dont really know how to reply to this... you kinda weirded me out. Ill just cut it down to bits ok?

ITT: Someone trying to tell someone else what they can and can't buy based on their own personal preferences and not those of the person in question.

Im pointing out the futility and wastefullness of purchasing and using something uneccessary for your use, its advertised and designed for something else so the only reason is vanity. ts kinda sad and we all suffer because it wastes oil (thus price increase) and these cars are dangerous. Its only negatives for us and the only positive is they feel macho/big/protective of their kids in a rediculously uneccessary trophy.

Two things, OP.

One: She has a right to buy whatever the fuck she wants. Why should she give up her Land Rover because YOU don't think it's appropriate? Nobody made you king. You have no more a right to tell her what she can and can't drive as I do.

This is where im weirded out... I never said she did have to give it up? Yeah we have the same say... i never said we didnt? Im allowed an opinion on these cars? I think they should be banned unless neccessary. Theres no proper reason to have one unless you really NEED to scale a taundra or pull some heavy field artillery. Isnt it awesome how im not forcing them? Im not claiming to be king? I never said i should have authority? Im just stating an opinion?

Christ man its like you never heard of points of view... is this new to you or something?.. really confused...

"I think that fast food should be taxed more heavily to incentivise healthier eating"
"OMFG WHO MADE YOU KING?! YOU DONT HAVE THAT RIGHT! I HAVE AS MUCH SAY AS YOU!"

Its just a bit... odd.... thats all. No offence intended... just erm tone it down a bit?

Let me run off some valid reasons a suburbanite would obtain such a vehicle.

1: Seats nine people as well as their stuff.
2: Shrugs off snow and ice that would stymy a FWD sedan
3: Can tow several thousand pounds without any issue
4: Carries far more cargo than an estate could
5: Allows one to more easily visit relatives in the countryside with driveways a 2WD can't readily handle.

1. So does a people carrier. More efficient too
2. Snowed here in england a while back. Hard. Know what the most common crashed car was? Yeah. Idiot yummy mummies thought their cool toy could handle ice without them having any training in how to drive in harsh conditions. Ended up in bushes and ditches. Tonne of landrovers skidded flipped, ended up in ditches ect.
3. Sweet, better get out my howitzer. When does any average joe need to do this? More than once? Is a car like this REALLY worth all those negatives just to do ONE move job?
4. Ive seen people carriers that can fold to carry about as much
5. I have yet to see a driveway made unscalable by regular drive. Thats stupid.

Im talking about AVERAGE JOES. Your job need it? Cool. You live ON AN ACTUAL FUCKING TAUNDRA like on every single fucking advert for the stupid car? Cool.

For all you know she was only driving that because her normal car was in the shop and she had no choice.

If this is the case ill track her down and apologise...

tl;dr: Stop trying to force others to drive what you think they should drive because of your friend's car getting trashed. If she can afford the fuel she has every right to drive that Land Rover.

More oddness... im not trying to force others. I hold this opinion. Im not talking about making them drive what i think they should. I want them to only be able to drive what is practical and neccessary. By your logic I should be able to cruise down the street in an unloaded challenger tank... I just have a view on this... no forcing involved? A point of view isnt a law

 

[thenumberthirteen]

Reading that story I don't see why 4x4s are the problem. I mean they sound great. It came out of an accident that wrecked another car up with barely a scratch! If I'm in an accident then I want a tough car.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Reading that story I don't see why 4x4s are the problem. I mean they sound great. It came out of an accident that wrecked another car up with barely a scratch! If I'm in an accident then I want a tough car.

Not sure if you dont understand it but it wrecked the other car BECAUSE it was a landrover. I guess in a twisted way a car thats designed to preserve you while maiming and almost defiantely killing anything you hit is desirable.

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

My girlfriend and I do a fair bit of offroading, and mudding in our truck so of course that requires we drive on the streets because ill be damned if im trailering my truck just to drive it in the dirt.

Personally though i dont see the necessity of having a land barge for driving the kids around, but i also believe youre free to do whatever the hell you want so.

 

[Fidelacchius]

There already is a selection process in the UK...

Landrovers and other large 4x4 are for women with 1 child
BMWs in general only sell to assholes
Vaxhall Vectras to people with no general awareness

They are the main ones but in a more broad sense...

You have to prove you are delusional to drive a hybrid
You have to be a complete dick to own a car with a dustbin for an exhaust.

These are real, dealers will not consider you without proving you meet the criteria first... HOWEVER as long as you do you will be able to get a finance agreement that will put you in debt for the next 30 years regardless of circumstance.


edit: who the f*@k wants to drive up a mountain? Would be the most inconvenient MOT garage in the world...

 

[Zantos]

Theoretically the cost to tax and run one should be a deterrent that ensures that people only buy them if they actually need them for off-roading or towing. With rising road tax and fuel costs, hopefully this will come true. I can kind of see your point with the safety issue, but bad drivers will be dangerous no matter what they're driving. However, if you restrict their sale too much it will harm the companies that make them, pushing up prices for people that do need them, or maybe even getting rid of that part of the industry altogether. Which is bad.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

This stems from a car accident my friend got into the other day. Its ok, hes fine, and so is the other driver. However his car? Front half kinda... torn off. He was hit by a landrover. The momentum and strength of the landrover meant that although the landrover is basically pristine now, (paint scratches at the most) my friends car is totalled. The driver? A mum driving her one kid to school. This happened in a school car park. I feel sorry for my friend, both drivers were at fault here; my friend didnt check his blind spot and the four by four driver didnt look before pulling out.

This made me think about four by four drivers. Why do people buy them. The adverts always depict someone scaling a glacier or trawling a desert and i have to wonder WHY would you buy one for a ROAD when its designed AND advertised as an off road vehical. Unless you actually plan on scaling one its a waste of money, makes the roads more dangerous for everyone except you, and wastes oil like a beast. Whenever i see one on the road now i react as you would if you saw someone driving a snow mobile. Why not? Its exactly the same in my mind.

Also every four by four ad reminds me of this:

Do you think it would be fair to basically, refuse to sell four by fours to young mums who physically cant stand driving to school in anything less than a vehical made to traverse the icy taundra of the frozon north? Oil is a precious resource. Why waste it on these idiots who feel that they deserve such a rediculous and uneccessary machine in order to transport themselves. Its wastefull selfish and stupid.

EDIT: Oil is used for plastics remember? The less we use in cars the more we get to use polyester clothes and plastic bags. I'd rather have it turned into clothes and items we can use for ages than burning a usefull resource pointlessly. And seriously... " its not low enough yet to bother rationing it".... how about we ration it right away so we have a relaible source and regulation of a finite substance? So we dont rush and use it all at once?

don't even get me started on huge fucking vehicles like those...

i will rage all day about how *MOST* of the people who buy the cars become careless arrogant cockly **** drivers on the road who don't give a single gram of fuck about anyone else.

i envy the cars greatly, but in tight city spaces being driven by soccer mom #56?

fuck that horseshit.

 

[SirDoom]

Im pointing out the futility and wastefullness of purchasing and using something uneccessary for your use, its advertised and designed for something else so the only reason is vanity. ts kinda sad and we all suffer because it wastes oil (thus price increase) and these cars are dangerous. Its only negatives for us and the only positive is they feel macho/big/protective of their kids in a rediculously uneccessary trophy.

The same could be said of any aspect of our culture. You could use the exact same argument against pretty much every motor vehicle (or any other purchase one could make) today, depending on what you consider unnecessary. Why do you need a sportscar when you only rarely drive around a track? Why get a $30,000 SUV when you can get a $10,000 car with better gas mileage? Is that little bit of extra power from a V8 engine worth the cost to the environment when compared to a standard 4 cylinder? To you, perhaps not. There are others that feel otherwise though.

Taken to the extreme, you could get into other subjects. For example, why buy that $50 t-shirt when the $10 bargain bin shirt will cover just as much and feel just as comfortable? Why get an expensive brand-name gold watch when a cheap velcro watch tells time just as well? Why would you eat at the most expensive steakhouse in the city when you could get a similar product for much cheaper elsewhere? You may not see the logic behind any of the decisions others make, but I assure you, there is usually some thought put into things.

More oddness... im not trying to force others. I hold this opinion. Im not talking about making them drive what i think they should. I want them to only be able to drive what is practical and neccessary. By your logic I should be able to cruise down the street in an unloaded challenger tank... I just have a view on this... no forcing involved? A point of view isnt a law

Yet again, what is "practical and necessary" is different for every person. Besides, if everyone drove what was "practical and necessary", then we'd lose all our sports cars, all our big pickup trucks. All our motorcycles, and all our more-expensive options. It would take all the sport and all the luxury out of vehicles. That may be fine for some, but if you have the money to spend, I fail to see why you shouldn't be able to get the fast car with a 17-disc CD changer and a built in coffee maker.




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SUVs, 4X4s, large trucks and diesel trucks should not be allowed to be sold to anyone unless they have a legitimate purpose for them, such as owning a landscaping company.

If you are just buying one as a status symbol or to haul a large item once in a blue moon then you need to pull your head out of your ass and buy something with reasonable fuel economy and size. I am sick of seeing these gigantic pristine trucks everywhere that have never seen a hard days work in their lives. All they do is make a ton of noise and throw even more pollution into the air. If you are so vain that you need some gigantic shiny truck for no other purpose then to call attention to yourself and scream "LOOK AT ME!", something is wrong with you.

Ok, wait, what?

I like SUVs because I need the space for carrying luggage and a few friends between cities. Pickup trucks are out due to passenger space issues, and I HATE driving in cars. I can't stand to be low to the ground when driving, and don't really like the designs of larger cars. A car is a big investment. When you go out and buy a new car, you expect to be driving it for 10+ years at least. You want something that's not only comfortable and reliable, but something you personally wouldn't mind driving for that long. If I'm going to make that kind of decision, I'm certainly going to get something that I think looks decent and can do all I need it to, even if some of my uses would only be occasional. For example, I drive to a spot in the forest only a few times per year in the spring. A car (at least one in my price range) can't handle the hills I have to go over in that area. I may only make 5 trips a year to that area, but I want to be able to do it. Similarly, the most I'll haul on a daily basis is a few suitcases, but I do on rare occasions have to move a large tractor. I want to be able to do that when the need arises as well.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I can't believe I'm the first to point this out, but 4X4 is not synonymous with big honkin' SUV. All it means is the vehicle in question has 4 wheel drive. Now, 4X4 vehicles come in a variety of sizes; the Toyota Rav 4, for example, is a tiny little thing[footnote]by American standards; it may technically be an SUV, but there are plenty of sedans that are bigger[/footnote], but it still comes with four wheel drive. As for additional licensing required for big trucks? We already have that. You need a class E license to drive either a semi-truck or a school bus. Anything smaller than that, and there really is a legitimate reason for a lot of people to have or at least have access to them; try getting a new Washing machine home in a smart car, for example.