Should this man be punished?

[Dags90]

The gun planting though doesn't make sense, for what purpose does it serve? It doesn't justify the killing, unless Steen had fired the weapon, or looked like he was about to.

People (and this includes cops) are not lawyers. Someone before you in this thread had used that there was a gun to demonize the victim, side stepping the actual legal issues. In this case, the planted gun would be a red herring. You would perhaps be surprised at how unsympathetic people are to people even just accused of a crime, particularly violent crimes. As it is, the news media loves the word "allegedly" and to treat people who've been "charged with" as if they've already been convicted.

 

[oktalist]

The second the kid disobeyed the police officer, he became a criminal. Evading police and resisting arrest are felonies. Criminals are presumed dangerous.

I don't dispute that. However, it should have been possible to force the suspect to stop without endangering his life. Criminals can't be presumed dangerous enough to warrant endangering their lives in arresting them, or we might as well tase every suspect we arrest, even the compliant ones.

I don't know what video you watched, but I heard plenty of warnings.

Sorry, I didn't want to watch a death video. Did you hear a warning specifically stating that he would be tased? Because that was what I meant.

At that time, it was legal and wasn't against the departments policy to fire a taser from a moving vehicle.

Whether or not the tasing was legal or against policy is not in question. It was still, in this instance, an act that would be reasonably expected to place lives in danger. As it resulted in a death, and as it cannot be justified by the danger posed by the suspect (just being a criminal is not enough; see above) it should be grounds for a manslaughter charge.

Had he stopped his bike and not run like a person that just did something wrong, I'm willing to be he'd still be alive.

That is not a credible defence, any more than "if he hadn't have slept with my wife, he'd still be alive right now."

Except the fact that it's true? His decision to run resulted in his accidental death. You cannot sit there and say that had he stopped, the officer would have gotten out, tased him, then got back into his car and run him over.

That's not what I'm saying. The suspect's decision to run resulted in his accidental death, yes. The officer's decision to use his taser in a recklessly endangering manner also resulted in the accidental death. Neither is more to blame than the other, but when the suspect broke the law he did not forfeit his right not to have his life put in danger. You only forfeit that right if you place others' lives in danger. The extent to which the suspect was in the wrong is irrelevant to the criminal liability of the officer.

I'm not trying to say who was right and who was wrong. I'm just stating the law as I understand it. We can't pick and choose which laws we enforce and which we don't.

 

[Jack_Uzi]

Running away for the police is a very stupid thing to do (almost) every time. So using a taser after the resist is a thing I can understand. What I do not understand however, is the stupid police officer who, for some unknown reason, did SO not see the situation coming of a kid that could fall off his bike during that. The officer who ran him over should be fired for his incompetence.

 

[-Samurai-]

Super duper snip

So we can both agree that they both screwed up? I guess we don't agree on wether or not the officer should be punished. Works for me.

I could see a light suspension here, but not the castration and crucifixion people are calling for.

 

[razer17]

Same as when that Brazillian guy was killed here in Britain, no he shouldn't be punished. You run away from the law, you take the consequences. It seems he didn't deliberately kill him.

 

[Doclector]

Judging by the amount of evidence, yes, but you never know, this could have some highly unlikely explanation.

Though, when the guy goes to court I can imagine his explanation ending up on failblog.

 

[Asturiel]

Yes, yes he should. I am getting so sick of cops these days. For some reason the cops where I live have been "cracking down" on speeding. This means that anyone going 2 miles over the speed limit get a hundred dollar ticket no questions asked. I drove by just two hours ago and I swear I saw two different cars pulled over during a ten minute drive. I've lost all respect for cops ,around where I live at least, because they're turning into a bunch of pricks that just like to abuse the badge. I probably shouldn't be jumping to conclusions about this specific police officer before getting all the facts though. For all we know that kid did steal the bike and was carrying the gun but it seems unlikely.

It's the end of the month man, they have quotas to fill, it's dickish, but it's their job.

Be very carful in the last week or so of a month because they will try to give you a ticket no matter what.

We immediately assume the gun was a plant. Why? reverse racism. Really it's just racism but it's done by white people against other white people.

He may have acted a little rash and that had a massive consequence. That's very unfortunate but if the police officer had reason to believe he was fleeing the scene of something then it's his duty to stop him. If the kid who died had of been white this would never have been an issue. And that's what bothers me.

So the kid's parents say he was afraid of gun's. My parents (if questioned) would say I wouldn't have the 2 air pistols I've got stashed under my bed. They'd also say I'd never smoked anything or hung around with dubious people. They're even less likely to admit to suspicions of these things after I'd been killed by a police officer. My point being his parents weren't exactly going to say. 'Oh yes he often carried a gun'.

Stop ignoring logic just because you're afraid that what you might say could be taken as racist by someone who is frankly, probably hyper sensitive. Everyone's so goddammed afraid of their own shadow these days.

"Ard opened the passenger seat of his car and took out an object. The object is light colored and floppy but it isn't clearly visible. Holding the object Ard crawled under the car to steves body and stayed there for 40 seconds. Later the paramedics found a gun."

I'm sorry but if that doesn't tip you off as suspicious than I don't know what will, although I will agree with you, the story they give about the kid is so cutesy that it shouldn't be believed. Plus the way the kid din't stop is a bit suspicious too, but we can't overlook the strong possibility that this cop did his job poorly.

http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/search/hb1322.htm

http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns

Ok, I'm seriously curious as to why people can justify this. Cops are turning down video evidence in cases. Why are we trying to be more tolerant of them breaking the laws they enforce?

*Snippy*

Very well thought out response, it's refreshing to see while druding through most of these posts...

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

THIS MAN DESERVES TO BURN AT THE DEEPEST PITS OF HELL ALONGSIDE HITLER FOR ALL ETERNITY

THAT IS ALL

Caps lock is not cruise control for cool.

Please refrain from making all caps posts from now on.

OT: Right now I'm seeing shady behavior on both sides, however due to these actions I'm thinking a two week suspension may have been a bit lite.

 

[Stone Wera]

The man must be locked in a room with a sexually frustrated wolverine... How long was his sentence? Anything less than life is unacceptable.

 

[Naheal]

This particular incident happened in October of last year, and in April, Ard was put on a two-week, unpaid suspension.

Now I ask you, esteemed Escapist, should officer Ard be more severly punished?

The man killed someone without provocation and, as punishment, received two weeks unpaid suspension and you're asking if he should be more severely punished? Is that question rhetorical?

Well here's a post that occured right after your's

No, it was a accident that the kid fell onto the cruiser and by the look of the video he had no chance to stop, and he should have stopped when pulled over

Bottom line, its no ones fault.

So, as you can see, not everyone agrees that he should be punished.

Agreed. I don't feel that trying him for murder would be appropriate. Man 2 would be more appropriate (accidental death through negligence) as anyone else who would have done that would be charged with the same. Unfortunate or not, that's the law out here and it's there for a reason.

Too big of a punishment? Fine, but this kid's life is worth FAR more than a few thousand dollars.

 

[sketch_zeppelin]

Normally i'd say that the kid should have pulled over, but i have family in Pensacola and i know for a fact that a lot of the cops in that area are...i don't want to say corrupt but they're defantly high on there own authority. Not all of them but some. So it wouldn't surprise me if the kid just didn't pull over fast enough and a cop decided to teach him a lesson and ended up accidently getting him killed.

Again i wasn't there i don't know the details but i dont' exactly trust the judgement of Pensacola cops.

 

[superbatranger]

He killed a kid, and possibly planted a gun on the kid. Of course he should have been given more than a suspension. He should have been stripped of his badge and arrested for that.

 

[One of Many]

I love how almost everyone is going "the cop's a pig! Life in jail/castration/death!" Grow up.

Anyways, I see this as a sad case of stupid proving to be deadly. Stupid kid tried to run from the police, stupid cop tazed said kid while chasing him in a moving car. If anything, the cop should have pulled up next to the kid and tased him, thus lessening the chance of running over the kid.

 

[The Austin]

Please read this: http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/death-of-teen-on-bike-shows-risks-of-expanded-use-of-tasers/1112106

Now a summary for the "TL;DR'ers" out there.

A police officer, named Jerald Ard, saw a 17 year old, black male, named Victor Steen riding a bike around 2AM, and decided he was breaking a law somehow. Ard did a U-turn, "veered" onto the wrong side of the road, and up onto the sidewalk, and attempted to pull Steen over. When the Steen didn't stop, Ard pulled out a taser, and fired, causing Steen to fall over, where Ard hit and instantly killed him.

At first the officer said he thought the kid had stolen something from a nearby construction site (which he hadn't), but changed his story to "The kid didn't have a light on his bike". Paramedics found a 9mm pistol on Steen's body, that, mysteriously, had no fingerprints on it, and, according to Steen's family members "Victor was afraid of guns", suggesting the gun was a plant.

This particular incident happened in October of last year, and in April, Ard was put on a two-week, unpaid suspension.

Now I ask you, esteemed Escapist, should officer Ard be more severly punished?

You're in the bay area too, eh?

To be honest, I think that the guy should be punished. Who fires a Tazer at a bicycle from a car?

A shitty cop, that's who.

 

[4484448444844484]

Planting evidence, manslaughter and sheer idiocy? Of course he should be punished.

 

[Ickorus]

Yes, for one you don't taser someone for not having a light on their bike and for two killing someone by accident is called manslaughter and has a nice criminal sentence that should be adhered to regardless of if you're a cop or not.

 

[TheTurtleMan]

Yes, yes he should. I am getting so sick of cops these days. For some reason the cops where I live have been "cracking down" on speeding. This means that anyone going 2 miles over the speed limit get a hundred dollar ticket no questions asked. I drove by just two hours ago and I swear I saw two different cars pulled over during a ten minute drive. I've lost all respect for cops ,around where I live at least, because they're turning into a bunch of pricks that just like to abuse the badge. I probably shouldn't be jumping to conclusions about this specific police officer before getting all the facts though. For all we know that kid did steal the bike and was carrying the gun but it seems unlikely.

Don't be too hasty to judge them on that. Fact is, it's probably your politicians needing more money because they can't responsibly spend their income, so they are using the police as a Sheriff of Nottingham tax collector. It's perfect because it's easy to blame the officers who are just doing what they are told to do and not the politicians.

That actually sounds like a similar conclusion me and some friends came up with. It's just that our local police department has gotten somewhat corrupt and the acting chief of police was recently forced to step down. I know I probably shouldn't be mad at the officer's on patrol but it's just some guys to point a finger at. Even though it's not their fault, they have been getting somewhat ridiculous about handing out tickets. I wasn't joking about the two mph over the speed limit though.

 

[Aiden_the-Joker1]

If an ordinary person commits manslaughter they go to jail but I have seen dozens of cases of the police committing manslaughter and getting virtually no punishment. Two weeks without pay? Then there's that whole thing about whether he planted a gun. Either way he went under the car with something in his hand and came back out without it. Also there were no traces of fingerprints.

 

[supagama]

yes, its still murder