Should we (as a species) make one language our "go-to" language?

Recommended Videos

OneCatch

New member
Jun 19, 2010
1,111
0
0
thaluikhain said:
OneCatch said:
As an aside, though, that is the case because the English were very good at stamping out the Welsh language in the first place. The Welsh knot comes to mind.
True. I don't have any direct familial history with the Not (I doubt my Welsh ancestry would have even been in proper schools that far back - we've got some marriage certificates from that era with crosses instead of signatures), but my great-grandfather got kicked out of school entirely for speaking Welsh. Which is truly horrible - but the story did lose effectiveness when it was used rather extensively to encourage me to revise for Welsh exams!
Anyway, I'd actually support Welsh language teaching if it was effective and wasn't forced upon you at GCSE level. At the moment however, it's just a waste of years and years of lessons, and limits your choices for future studies.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
19,538
4,128
118
dunam said:
If we go by big empires, we might as easily go by Persian or Mongolian. Or indeed, Spanish, the second most populous language of the world.
Or French, like it was a while ago, or Chinese...actually, try to do all of these at once, the fun of a universal thing is that there's usually a competing bunch of universal things.

OneCatch said:
Anyway, I'd actually support Welsh language teaching if it was effective and wasn't forced upon you at GCSE level. At the moment however, it's just a waste of years and years of lessons, and limits your choices for future studies.
Yeah, I could see that being a problem.
 

Frezzato

New member
Oct 17, 2012
2,448
0
0
conmag9 said:
Even if one were to make a universal "go to" language, it would naturally evolve all on its own, re-splintering itself until it becomes unrecognizable. It's the nature of language to do so.
Damn, that was motherfucking astute. Good point.
 

rednose1

New member
Oct 11, 2009
346
0
0
I think English is moving towards becoming a universal language all on it's own.
One of the biggest misconceptions I had in the Navy was I wouldn't be able to converse with people in other countries. Found out, every single country I went to, people spoke English (also accepted U.S.A currency everywhere, another thing I learned.)
Granted, that was mostly Europe, with a few stops Dubai & Bahrain in the Middle East, and Turkey in Asia, but the extent to which English was present surprised me greatly. Even basic signs were in English.

The British empire (and now America) spread English everywhere in the world. Given time, it may become the default language, working towards that goal now with no interference.
 

sanquin

New member
Jun 8, 2011
1,837
0
0
OneCatch said:
Lastly, English might be convenient for us native speakers, but I'd imagine that the rest of the world might not agree. How would you like to be told you (or your kids) had to learn Mandarin for the sake of convenience? It seems a bit... colonial to suggest imposing a national language in such a way.
The other reasons still stand though. They may have been of different languages in the past, and at those times if a national languages had to be picked it would be one of those. But we're talking about the here and now. I too feel like we should move towards at least one global language to be used. English is the prominent language in important sectors at the moment. And the language that can already be spoken in most countries, even if by only a small portion of the population, is English.
 

Old Father Eternity

New member
Aug 6, 2010
481
0
0
Thanks to globalization and ease of information and cultural transfer that comes with it, it is rather likely that we will eventually get there even without imposing any legislations, given of course there won't be any 'fuck up grandieur'on the way.
Until that day, it is fine as is, a bit annoying at times (sodding monolingual tourists) but ok. It would be nice if individual languages survived though, as they are a huge part of who we are.
 

sanquin

New member
Jun 8, 2011
1,837
0
0
Chinese is actually incredibly easy. The grammar is far easier even than English. It's just the writing system that's hard, though the tones are a bit tricky too.

Though really, all this talk of easy and hard languages is completely false. All languages are equally easy. Children born and raised in any language around the world pretty much learn the same level of proficiency by the same age. So there's no such thing as an easy language or a difficult language, there are only languages that are more or less different from the native language one is born with. To claim a language to be difficult is to adopt a biased position that one's native language is the main language worth concerning oneself with.
You're now making assumptions about my native language. I'm Dutch. English is not my native language. I've also had French and German at school, for quite a few years. Out of the 4 languages I've learned about, English was the easiest one. Though I admit that Japanese and Spanish seem to be on the easier side too.
 

Deshin

New member
Aug 31, 2010
442
0
0
FizzyIzze said:
conmag9 said:
Even if one were to make a universal "go to" language, it would naturally evolve all on its own, re-splintering itself until it becomes unrecognizable. It's the nature of language to do so.
Damn, that was motherfucking astute. Good point.
"Nature of language" Sure, that was before we had the entire planet and also most of the stratosphere networked together to form the internet. Language splintering happen when a tribe migrates and they're cut off from the rest of their language speakers for a few dozen generations. That's not going to happen now we have the internet; we've reached the point of singularity for language's evolution. We'll never be cut off from one another again, and that is a BEAUTIFUL thing.

Also people saying bring in Chinese or Spanish. No, English is the most wide-spread language. Just because China has a billion to throw at any consensus it wants doesn't mean it's wide-spread. English has become the juggernaut language, UN mandate or not it's already taken root. As the internet spreads to new regions it'll just get more and more popular. It might be too late for the older generations but the new kids? Kids being born right now or in the last 10 years who are going to encounter the internet, youtube, video games, music, etc, they'll be learning English one way or another. Hell one of my best friends learned to speak English from watching Cartoon Network and playing RPGs on her PlayStation. My prediction is another 50 years or so and the majority of the planet will know English.
 

prowll

New member
Aug 19, 2008
198
0
0
Asita said:
Uh, ever hear of a Lingua Franca? At present, English is the dominant language for those purposes and is used for everything from the Olympics to International Trade to Air Traffic Control. That's probably about as close to a universal language as we're going to see in our lifetimes.
Pretty much this. Doing anything more would basically require all world governments to agree to it (they won't, cause well France can't even agree on what is in IT'S language, let alone agree to use a different one) and it would require the level of politicing that we will NOT see in the current US government.

Heck, the US can't even agree to make English the default language here. Why should we try to spread it outside?
 

kurokotetsu

Proud Master
Sep 17, 2008
428
0
0
Jacco said:
It is also very, very good at conveying complex ideas (which is part of the reason it is used for science) that other languages can't always articulate as precisely.
That is false. It is mostly used in science because of the large amounts of researchers that work in USA, and made that shift around the second half of the twentieth century. Before that German was widely used, as was French, nad Latin before any of those. Speaking fluently 3 languages and basic to intermidiate level in other 2, well all those seem to be equally able to convey complex ideas, it is just a matter of lexicon (in science) and enough learning to be able to express yourself. I can talk about science in those three (well, I kind of lack the expresions used in Catalan, but those should be easy to learn) and can read divulgation texts in French, and all those are perfectly good for science.

ABout a Lingua Franca? Well, it would indeed be nice to be able to go to anywhere and speak a single language. SHould English be that language? Well, it is the nearest to it, but I'm not sure. English can be either seen really hard or simple: Hard because of the inconsistent grammar and messy pronunciation (there are several extra vowels and consonants compered to other languages and the combination there-of) it is not easy to learn. On the other hand, it is maleable (creation of new words and verbes is relatively easy) and some of its grammar is easier than other langages (verbs are easier than in almost any other language I've learned and lack of gender concordance). Is it hard or easy? Well, I'm not sure, I've been hearing it most of my life, so it is easy that way. Also, to those that say there are no tonal difference in English, think about beach and sheet and their non-polite counterparts. Or read and read (past and present) as a complication for learnign Enlish phonetics.

English isn't more fragmented than any other language that I've seen. And neither it has more double entendres than others (for example, in Mexico it is common for two men to have a conversation just in double entendres called albures).

But sayign that matching genders is French is hard, well, it is probably because you are not used to it, as most of other Western languages do it, meaning it is very easy to learn. But the phonetics of French are complex, having I think, something around five different O's, for example. Germans long and winding structure, as well as a bit archaic nature aren't that simple for foreigners, but is has a very regular form of expresion. Spanish has easier phonetics and regular grammar, but it is not without it's exceptions and quirks that aren't trivial to learn (extra phonemas for a couple of expresions, "strange" spelling rules, stress rules). And that is only some Western languages. Japanese has a very basic grammar that can be learned in a few moments (for basic understanding) and easy phonetics, but has a complex writing system among other nuances (a very strong division between formal and informal, more than the otehrs that I now). SO there are no easy languages to learn in my opinion. They all have complications that can make learning even basics hard for people. Personal experience aside, I doubt there is a universaly easy langage to learn.

So a Lingua Franca seems hard to come by. Even educated peopke aren't going tobe able to learn the Lingua Franca, because fo the different learning methods for each person means that unless you are constantly sorounded by the language (which unless it is a part of the local culture doesn't happen that often) there will be a respectable amount of the population that won't learn it. Teaching in Elementary school isn't the solution either, as un-prepared teachers, lack of constant reinforcement and other factors means that even though children are being thought, thre is no warantee they will carry it into adulthood. Spain, Italy adn Switzerland you can find people that have probably had years of ENlgish but are unable to communicate freely in tha language.

rednose1 said:
I think English is moving towards becoming a universal language all on it's own.
One of the biggest misconceptions I had in the Navy was I wouldn't be able to converse with people in other countries. Found out, every single country I went to, people spoke English (also accepted U.S.A currency everywhere, another thing I learned.)
Granted, that was mostly Europe, with a few stops Dubai & Bahrain in the Middle East, and Turkey in Asia, but the extent to which English was present surprised me greatly. Even basic signs were in English.

The British empire (and now America) spread English everywhere in the world. Given time, it may become the default language, working towards that goal now with no interference.
Did you stray far from you base? Becasue near, locals tend to learn English to be able to do business with the stationed troops, for a given radius. The areas most travelled and around the military bases aren't really showing of the standard level of English in mos countries.

Ah, and one last point. WHile yes, English is the most used in air travel, local flights are usually in the local kanguage, not in English. Also most flights have either two or three languages spoken, English, but also that of one or two of the countries you are travelling between. WHile you are acquainted with one of those you can speak in airlines without problems.
 

Playful Pony

Clop clop!
Sep 11, 2012
531
0
0
OlasDAlmighty said:
It's a very practical idea, and English would definitely be the most logical first choice.

The only worry I'd have is that if everyone knows English there won't be much need or reason for people to become fluent in their native languages anymore. Why would they want to when the rest of the world speaks English including people in their own country? Slowly, native languages would start to deprecate until every country is like Ireland where only 2% of the population actually know Gaelic.
Well I don't know... I heard that languages actually go exinct at an unprecidented rate, all due to centuries of increasing globalization. I wonder if we'll be able to hold on to all out languages even if we want to, especially dialects and other variations of laguages.
 

Stu35

New member
Aug 1, 2011
594
0
0
Quadocky said:
Why English? Why not Chinese? Most people in the world know Chinese.
False. Well... Not technically false, but it ignores common sense.

Actually. Yes, False, because Chinese isn't really a language. Mandarin and Cantonese are languages... Although a cursory google search tells me that using "Chinese" to refer to Mandarin is acceptable these days, but hey ho that's not the point:

Numerically there are more native Mandarin and Cantonese speakers than any other language. Because China is a fucking big country with a lot of people in it. It's also spoken widely in what, Taiwan? Possibly a couple of other countries?


English is a global language - That is to say, Britain, America and Canada may not boast as many people living in them as China, but we've also got a large number of every other fucker in the world speaking it as a second language.

Let me put it this way: You could go anywhere on earth speaking Chinese, and the only places you're really likely to find people who speak it are China, and the Chinese diaspora in other nations (and even then, that's not guaranteed, Chinese migrants have a history of excellent integration which means by the 3rd or 4th generation many of Chinese descent don't speak much, if any, Chinese).

English on the other hand? Go fucking anywhere you want. If you can't find someone who speaks English, bet that someone nearby can find you a guy who knows a guy who does.

It doesn't have to be fluent either. One thing I love about the English language is that it's (generally) very forgiving - English people tend not to correct foreigners who mispronounce words, or who form sentences incorrectly (or if they do correct them, it's in a helpful manner). On the other hand you try speaking Chinese to a Chinese person and then watch as they laugh at your efforts.

Germans are the same actually - I lived in Germany for quite some time, my pronunciation was generally shit and I often formed sentences in the English manner. Nothing a German loves more than correcting you on the incorrect use of their language (Which they do in English, and frustratingly: Better English than my Northern dialect).


...

TL;DR: The idea that Chinese is more prevalent as a language is a incorrect. It takes a statistic and then completely ignores the surrounding factors of that statistic.


DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
Just a quick one: Whilst you've clearly studied this and put a bit of thought into it, I think you're considering simple differences in dialect as being indicative of entirely different language splinters.

In Britain, we have an absolute shitload of dialects and accents, if you're going to turn around and say that because of this we don't all speak English (which I admit is a little bit of 'Reductio ad absurdum' on my part), then of course the whole world won't end up speaking English as a result of the internet.

I would argue, however, that everyone speaking their own bastardised version of the same language is still highly likely - it's already beginning in many places. Anecdotally I know a Polish lass who learned English watching 'Friends' on TV as a child.
 

Frezzato

New member
Oct 17, 2012
2,448
0
0
Deshin said:
FizzyIzze said:
conmag9 said:
Even if one were to make a universal "go to" language, it would naturally evolve all on its own, re-splintering itself until it becomes unrecognizable. It's the nature of language to do so.
Damn, that was motherfucking astute. Good point.
snip
I like to think that if English dominates the world as a language, words like "supposably", "irregardless", and phrases such as "I could care less" will spread throughout the world :)


Like a stupidity virus that is. Ur welcome the world, TTYL.