Should You Have to Get a License to Raise Children?

Recommended Videos

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
0
0
It takes away everyones most basic freedom from the dawn of time, the freedom to reproduce. No-one has the right to do that, ever.

badgersprite said:
I don't think there should be a license or standardized test that approves or rejects applicants (seriously, forced sterilization or forced abortions based on things unrelated to parenting sounds like an awful and very elitist world, dude) but sometimes I think all expecting parents should get to attend free state-sponsored classes about how to safely raise a baby.
We have a winner! Education is the way to solve the problem, more often then not any mistakes are due to lack of education, people mightn't have had good or any parents, or never encountered a situation before, the first child is the hardest people always say because you don't know what to expect. Teaching people what to do will fix this.
 

joebthegreat

New member
Nov 23, 2010
194
0
0
I almost never say things like this.

The sheer amount of people here who legitimately agree with these Orwellian ideas make me fear for humanity.

I can't fathom how so many people can be filled with so much hate for their fellow species. People who hate humanity with so much ferocity, what have they ever done that has been beneficial? Seriously, what has EVER come from such people?

What manner of man is responsible for the most grievous wars? Who is responsible for keeping those in poverty from moving up in the world, from having freedom? What kind of person would keep the "lesser" "unimportant" people from something as basic as having children?

It is outright barbaric. There are ways we can work to prevent overpopulation and keep humanity growing. Technology improves, scientific knowledge expands. We can be great...

Or, in the name of "nature" we can tear ourselves down to the level of animals and be nothing.

Just know that you will be completely unable to pass your terrible law. I hope you never find an opportunity. Overpopulation, might I add, is not a problem in the WEST. It is a problem in South-East Asian countries. You have no idea what overpopulation even is if you've only lived in a Western country and not in China, Japan, India, or a South-Eastern Asian country.
 

Irony's Acolyte

Back from the Depths
Mar 9, 2010
3,636
0
0
HG131 said:
For those of you saying "HEWMAN WITEZ!!!!", what about the rights of the abused?
Balancing the rights of the many against the rights of the few.

Should a vast majority of people who would make perfectly fine parents be denied children because they don't measure up to some arbitrary number put in place all just because a couple people are either just plain horrible at parenting or had a moment of screwing up (which I imagine was what happened with the whole "Facebook mother" incident; she probably wasn't that bad of a parent, she just had one accident which happened to have lethal results). The last time I checked parents aren't allowed to abuse their child whenever they fell like it. If it is found that a child is living in an abusive environment, they are removed from it whether the parent likes it or not.

I don't like the idea of taking away people's rights just because they "might" screw up. People can always screw up, we're not perfect. Punishing us for that seems just pointless.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
5,231
0
0
HG131 said:
For those of you saying "HEWMAN WITEZ!!!!", what about the rights of the abused?
People will be abused, that is a fact, and I don't think this test would lower it much, because most abuse isn't born of pure ignorance (which is what would be tested), but rather malice, or lack of motivation to care for the child.

Even if it tested for all three, no. Parents shouldn't need to go through this shit for the relatively small percentage of children who are abused, yes it sucks that they are abused, but no system is perfect, and I think it's more important to preserve our basic rights.
 

loip9114

New member
Oct 29, 2009
24
0
0
Magicman10893 said:
I like the idea, although not so much as a standardized test. There are many different approaches to raising children with varying rates of success among them. For instance, some parents like to be hard on their kids to teach them that life is hard. Sometimes this works and you get an efficient and productive child and other times you get a rebellious troublemaker or even a depressed child that either becomes violent or suicidal because, "daddy never hugged me."

Instead, there should be a screening process. They put in there application and a computer then does a background check for to test parenting aptitude.

-The computer checks their criminal record. Then the criminal offenses are reviewed and if anything serious (murder, attempted murder, assault, etc.) is found, then they are denied.

-A check of permanent records from school to check things like grades for intelligence and behavior. If the person had a lot of trouble turning in homework or lacked responsibility, they lose "points" overall. Also this check will look for fights that might not appear on a criminal record. If there are a large number of fights, this person is likely to abuse their child.

-A medical check for any hereditary diseases is done to see if there are serious complications for bringing a child into the world. For instance, my father has a family history of heart disease which caused my 30-something year old half sister to have a heart attack after living a very healthy life. If the medical check exposed this, they wouldn't have let him reproduce with anyone.

If the applicant passed the other tests with flying colors, but fails this test, they are given the opportunity to adopt a child. Or if the spouse passes every test, they could find someone that passes this medical check and have the child with them, but have the applicants raise the child. This procedure is already used for couples where one of the would-be-parents is physically unable to reproduce.

-Finally, a drug test for obvious reasons.

Any would be parents would also have to go to a parenting class. A class that covers the basics like how to change diapers and feed the baby and all that fun stuff. I don't this is too harsh and it removes the chance that the applicant would pass the test with lucky guesses.
Agree very much with the first point, parenting isn't something that can be easily generalized. Not only because there are different techniques, but we are all humans and in my opinion we are already born different. Parenting doesn't have a formula, thus a test wouldn't be able to be taken. For test to be usefull it has to have a formula or logic behind it that can be apply to all. It's all about interpretation of the situation.

Screening would be a good idea. Few points.
The criminal screening is a good idea, but you might also ask that if a criminal once made a violation of the law, shouldn't he be able to lead a normal life. Say that someone has better his life which happens, due to this standard he might be denied to have a child and normal life for as long as he lives. Going further, but with an exaggeration, this might lead the criminal to despise society even more and forget about being good and just screw society and perhaps become quite a big threat.
Punishment is a powerfull tool, if the punished one also has the chance to redeem himself and go back to following the social norms.

Second point I don't agree with. Children who are bullied (for example) might get in a lot of fights, due to the fact of being pushed to the edge and into the corner just like an animal you would fight back. While bullied children might be one of the most protective parents, perhaps over-protective that could be the other end.
I am not saying it's a bad idea, but I believe abuse doesn't find its origin in the school behaviour, same thing about responsibility. I would say check if they changed, at their work or whatever.

Third point, I don't need to know what could go wrong and be happy they let your dad reproduce because it gave you life and yes sadly took that of your half sister. But genetics is a complicated thing and it would still be a gamble. You might be on the good side or not, I know it sounds strange, but this shouldn't be a criteria in my opinion. Besides during pregnancy a LOT of things could go wrong and some things go wrong, but the body is a very strong 'machine' it has its ways to correct errors. So medical history shouldn't be in the screening, besides we'd be fucking with evolution that way and we are already screwing with nature.
Post-fertalization enhancement could be a solution to this, but that might be a whole 'nother discussion.

Your point about drugs I agree with, but again those who have been clean should be allowed to have a child.

Your last point is one that we in my opinion should enforce immediatly. Just like school is obligated in some countries this should definitely be obligated. Actually even more, I would say it would have to give this course to parents who have their first child on cost of society. I know this for a fact, the first few months/years are very very important. As soon as they get pregnant I believe they should get a course of what to do during pregnancy. Some things can have a serious negative life-long effect on your child if you do it at the wrong time, remember softenon babies. Right after that they should have parenting course, at the end of pregnancy say 2 months before the birth.



Anyway, to conclude, I believe that such a law would be very hard enforcable, but damn well needed. Parenting is a very hard task and could be seen as a community thing, but I believe you have your own special parents and they should raise you, but they could use help. I am rather liberal in many points suggesting for freedom and second-chances. But I am thinking that it would help us, even if you make just the course part obligated. The screening would be handy, but I'd say the medical screening must always stay optional.

But thinking of all this, I see the importance of science. The role would be so essential. The psychology/biology of development of everything. There are quite some questions on this, but I do want to point out that this science is far from perfect or complete. Still many things are a mystery and we can't give a generalization of this too. So testing it would be very hard.
 

omicron1

New member
Mar 26, 2008
1,729
0
0
"There is nothing so dangerous as a person in a place of power, convinced of both the rightness of his cause and his own innate superiority."

More thoughts: To do this is to place the values of society over the values of the individuals involved. This is the exact way the worst regimes in modern history were born. For once you turn over a right to the state, the state will do what it wants with it, and good luck getting that right back if you don't like what happens.
 

Blatherscythe

New member
Oct 14, 2009
2,217
0
0
joebthegreat said:
I almost never say things like this.

The sheer amount of people here who legitimately agree with these Orwellian ideas make me fear for humanity.

I can't fathom how so many people can be filled with so much hate for their fellow species. People who hate humanity with so much ferocity, what have they ever done that has been beneficial? Seriously, what has EVER come from such people?

What manner of man is responsible for the most grievous wars? Who is responsible for keeping those in poverty from moving up in the world, from having freedom? What kind of person would keep the "lesser" "unimportant" people from something as basic as having children?

It is outright barbaric. There are ways we can work to prevent overpopulation and keep humanity growing. Technology improves, scientific knowledge expands. We can be great...

Or, in the name of "nature" we can tear ourselves down to the level of animals and be nothing.

Just know that you will be completely unable to pass your terrible law. I hope you never find an opportunity. Overpopulation, might I add, is not a problem in the WEST. It is a problem in South-East Asian countries. You have no idea what overpopulation even is if you've only lived in a Western country and not in China, Japan, India, or a South-Eastern Asian country.
You seem to believe that I loathe my own damn species, first off, fuck you and your assumption. I was simply asking a question to the community of this website, I never thought this topic would stir up 5 pages worth of controversy. This "law" is not intended to start a war, nor keep people in poverty, in fact a person with 5 kids and on wellfare and is pregnant isn't doing anyone any fucking good. We have someone who has 5 and soon to be 6 children and is unable to work, there's a high chance she won't be able to take care of all of them even if she wanted too. The only freedom being taken away is the freedom to add another human being into this world and neglect them. Some fucking freedom. And by the way, SARS was a problem in China (which is in Asia) it came west, well holy fuck, a problem from Asia came here? I know a diesease is a terrible example, but the west is growing in population, just because it isn't a problem now doesen't mean it will never be.
 

Biosophilogical

New member
Jul 8, 2009
3,264
0
0
Shit no! For one, it's a right (or it should be, which is kind of what separates a right from a priviledge) for people to have children. If the parents are bad parents (as in, completely horrible) and have shown this towards their child then get social services to take the child away. But having a license? Now that's just ... wow. I mean, for one, how can you know that the test is accurate or fair? Who writes it, who approves it, how do you know these people are perfect (because they'd have to be to avoid a faulty exam)? And then, of course, you get the issue of who gets this power over parenting rights? No one is perfect, and if you are proposing something like this, the people in control need to be perfect.

So yeah, F**k that shit.
 

Blitzwarp

New member
Jan 11, 2011
462
0
0
kickyourass said:
As much as I'd like to say yes, there would be too many problems with it for it to be practical, not least of which being that it'd be nearly impossible to enforce in most countries, and it's easy to see that sort of law mutating into something out of 1984 or something.

And lastly I'd just like to point out something
Blitzwarp said:
I love that people in support of this license cite a tiny, tiny minority of society. What about all of those parents out there doing a great job? Where's the credit for them? Oh no, all parents are idiots, moving along.

(Also, I might add, there have been a lot of great people in history who came from shitty families - Abraham Lincoln, Charles Dickens, Charlie Chaplin. Alternatively, there are children who came from lovely families who are revolting - Paris Hilton was given everything and in return is wasting her life (does that make her parents bad parents or good parents?) or as a personal example, I have an uncle who was loved and nurtured and given all he wanted by his parents, and turned out to be a lech and a borderline paedophile. *shrugs*)
I absolutely love what you did there, I mean you criticize others for pointing to a tiny minority of people in support of this sort of law, and then literally three sentences later you do almost the EXACT SAME THING.
I pointed out people using general examples ("oh my god I know right all of these parents and idiots!" Er...which? Who exactly are you talking about?) and then compared that by using specific examples (both of crap parents producing brilliant children and good parents producing crap children). Hardly the exact same thing.
 

RatRace123

Elite Member
Dec 1, 2009
6,651
0
41
Might need to be a little wiggle room in certain places, but sure, I'm game for something like this.
I've heard far too many stories of parents who should've never had children. If they have to work for it, maybe they'll actually try to concentrate on being parents.
Though, I'd believe that if you screw up on raising a child and it's very obviously your fault (Letting your baby drown because you were playing a facebook game) then you shouldn't be allowed to have another child, that would be something I'd enforce rather than a child liscence.
 

Ghengis John

New member
Dec 16, 2007
2,209
0
0
dathwampeer said:
brandon237 said:
dathwampeer said:
brandon237 said:
dathwampeer said:
Fuck yes. A million times yes.

Take it a step further. Remove peoples ability to conceive until they get a licence allowing them to have kids. That way there wouldn't be thousands of kids in orphanages because their dipshit parents forgot about contraception and neglected to apply for a licence when they got preggo.

I've said this for a while.

You need to prove you're worthy to have children. And people need to stop using them as barganing tools to scam money out of the government. It's not fair on the kid and it's not fair on those of us who pay taxes.

As for what the test for licensing should involve.

1)First of all a medical. Asses the chances of whether or not you're likely to drop dead and leave the kid whilst they're too young to look after themselves.

2)Find out whether or not you have a history of genetic/heredity disease and whether you're likely to pass that on to a child.

3)A mental capability test. No so much intelligence. But find out whether or not the person is likely to neglect or abuse the child. Or simply whether they can handle parenthood.

4)And finally. Financial. It's not fair to the child or the state if you're going to require constant money to support a child. If you can't provide a decent standard of living yourself. Then you should not bring a child into the world.

These may sound like harsh, even Orwellian demands. But I think they're paramount to an evolved and civilised society and the sooner we work towards this kind of system the better.
I like this, but you could only use 2 in extreme cases, every person has some ancestor with some genetic problems. I know of some cases (my aunt) to whom this should definitely be applied, she had a VERY serious, always genetically transmitted heart condition and both her kids needed surgery before they were even a year old.

And I agree on this whole test, especially in poverty-stricken areas, everyone has 5 kids and no money! Everyone! It is horrible and adds to the poverty and pollution like nothing else.
I'm quite pleased to see the general response I've gotten in this thread. I was expecting tons of people calling me little Hitler or something.

Yea. I wouldn't say every genetic disorder should be a definite no. But something like Huntingtons chorea or what you said you're aunt had. Well it's just unfair to pass it on knowingly as far as I can see.

Within 3-4 generations I'd think most serious genetic disorders would be mostly eradicated. eugenics may seem deplorable on the surface. And active eugenics is certainly cruel. But passive, such as denying certain disabilities and diseases to be passed on. Well I can see no downside.

We would just have to monitor what would be considered a disability or disease. Racism could quite easily slip it's unwanted face into the mix.
No, the world is over-populated and there are many freak stories that come about because people are selfish or stupid. Not to mention the above poverty example, I see a lady with a baby begging on the street, the next year it is two babies, and the next three. It is selfish, stupid, harsh on the children, the parents don't have the finances to take care of the children and struggle too. This also screws with the labour laws, and can make a crime filled society.

Then there are genetic disorders, inbreeding, children doomed to die before they hit 30. My friend knows a girl who, due to serious hereditary disease, should have died last year and is not doing too well now, and she is only eighteen. After you see this sort of thing, it is hard to wonder why no such programs have been implemented already.

But yes, extreme political care would have to be taken, and the laws regarding who qualifies for the permit and who doesn't would have to be very well made, preferably NOT on a nation to nation basis, but with WORLD agreement.
Could not agree more.

Glad to see so many like minded people on this subject.
All fine and well so long as whatever committee is in charge decides it's you who can't have children. And who draws the lines? Who watches the watchmen? Some disorders actually have surprise benefits. If sickle cell anemia should one day create survivors of a plague is it a good idea to wipe it out? Nice work there, Gattica.