"Shut up because I'm a soldier!"

[GoldenFish]

Well here in Australia it's perfectly acceptable to say you're better than New Zealanders because it's true.

Hey at least we didn't lose to Ireland

Soldiers should grow up. It just sounds like these troops are looking for an opportunity to brag about what they've done.

 

[Monsterfurby]

I must admit that, talking to Americans, I have encountered similar attitudes a few times, but less in the self-entitled "I'm a soldier, therefore I am right" way and more via others automatically valuing a soldier's opinion more.

In Germany, while our few active and former soldiers are treated with respect, that line of argument would probably rather hurt your argumentative position.

 

[surg3n]

I know what you mean. My brother is in the RAF, the air force in the UK, and we hear it all the time. What he doesn't talk about, is the fact that joining the RAF was an act of desperation - sick of working production lines for low pay, sick of claiming benefits, he joined the forces, and became a supply officer. When you join the forces because you can't get a job, don't expect a pat on the back.
I've met a lot of people in the forces, and to be brutally honest, maybe 1 of them struck me as intelligent, the rest were all future bouncers, future security guards, or had no future. They expect to leave the forces and walk into a high paid job, just because they served. None of the joined to 'serve their country', in the UK the army is typically an escape.

My brother got made redundant last month... wonder how he'll gloss that one over. It's rediculous really, when you sign up, you should be guarantee'd your position for the duration of your service.

Don't get me wrong, there are people who join the forces for the right reason, there are people who take advantage of what a career in the forces can do for you - but a huge percentage of soldiers out there are out there being soldiers because they arent smart enough to get a decent job. Squander your youth, do badly in school, then join the army to avoid unemployment and child maintenance.... equals instant hero for some reason. I was talking to someone about what my brother gets upto when overseas (black market leatherman trades and pallette wrestling), and they said ''How would you like it if you had a son in the army and he got shot.'', I had to say ''About the same as I would if I had a son crossing the street who got hit by a bus''. Surely the death of someone is not made worse by what they were doing beforehand. When a family member joins the forces, you accept that there is risk inherent in that, if the worst happens then I'd say your more prepared for it than someone being hit by a bus.

I have a 15yo son, and I hope to god he never has to join the army, that's what would make me proud.

 

[Alexnader]

Well here in Australia it's perfectly acceptable to say you're better than New Zealanders because it's true.

Hey at least we didn't lose to Ireland

Soldiers should grow up. It just sounds like these troops are looking for an opportunity to brag about what they've done.

I'm sad now...

I know what you mean. My brother is in the RAF, the air force in the UK, and we hear it all the time. What he doesn't talk about, is the fact that joining the RAF was an act of desperation - sick of working production lines for low pay, sick of claiming benefits, he joined the forces, and became a supply officer. When you join the forces because you can't get a job, don't expect a pat on the back.
I've met a lot of people in the forces, and to be brutally honest, maybe 1 of them struck me as intelligent, the rest were all future bouncers, future security guards, or had no future. They expect to leave the forces and walk into a high paid job, just because they served. None of the joined to 'serve their country', in the UK the army is typically an escape.

My brother got made redundant last month... wonder how he'll gloss that one over. It's rediculous really, when you sign up, you should be guarantee'd your position for the duration of your service.

Don't get me wrong, there are people who join the forces for the right reason, there are people who take advantage of what a career in the forces can do for you - but a huge percentage of soldiers out there are out there being soldiers because they arent smart enough to get a decent job. Squander your youth, do badly in school, then join the army to avoid unemployment and child maintenance.... equals instant hero for some reason. I was talking to someone about what my brother gets upto when overseas (black market leatherman trades and pallette wrestling), and they said ''How would you like it if you had a son in the army and he got shot.'', I had to say ''About the same as I would if I had a son crossing the street who got hit by a bus''. Surely the death of someone is not made worse by what they were doing beforehand. When a family member joins the forces, you accept that there is risk inherent in that, if the worst happens then I'd say your more prepared for it than someone being hit by a bus.

I have a 15yo son, and I hope to god he never has to join the army, that's what would make me proud.

TL;DR We're all slaves to the man. The man wants you in the army and the system is set up to send white trash and poor ethnic groups to the front lines as a means of keeping them down.

Anyway I was an army cadet and I always joked to my parents that if I flunked the Higher School's Certificate here in Aus I'd just join the army. Thankfully I'm now studying to be an engineer though I am tempted to join the reserves because so long as I don't have to kill/be killed small doses of army life can be pretty fun.

 

[Hamish Durie]

at the end of the day
yes hes a soldier
hes also an idiot
idiot>soldier

 

[Angry Camel]

Right with you, OP. If someone's a soldier, I'm grateful for what they do for us. But if you served as a soldier out of your own free will, I don't have any feelings for you if you pull it as a "get out of jail free" card. You don't purposely chop your hand off and demand pity on the grounds of being an amputee. It's even worse when rich people use their wealth as a trump card.

I'll probably join the Aussie Reserves, but I pray to God that I won't have to put up with these kind of people during training.

 

[Stu35]

I know what you mean. My brother is in the RAF, the air force in the UK, and we hear it all the time. What he doesn't talk about, is the fact that joining the RAF was an act of desperation - sick of working production lines for low pay, sick of claiming benefits, he joined the forces, and became a supply officer. When you join the forces because you can't get a job, don't expect a pat on the back.
I've met a lot of people in the forces, and to be brutally honest, maybe 1 of them struck me as intelligent, the rest were all future bouncers, future security guards, or had no future. They expect to leave the forces and walk into a high paid job, just because they served. None of the joined to 'serve their country', in the UK the army is typically an escape.

Well, I'm in the Army, and I can tell you that there are a damned sight more intellectuals in our organisation than a lot of people think.

The thing is, the RAF is not a single job - nor is the Army, or the Navy, I do a trade in the Army and work with some of the most intelligent people in the world in doing so. At the same time I know and have worked with the Infantry, which has more than it's share of retarded spastics who couldn't located Afghanistan on the map...

In both cases, I'd say people using the Armed forces as "an escape" are in the minority, and tend not to last very long or do very well - the majority of us chose it for other reasons (For myself it was to see the world, and because I've always wanted to be in the Army...).

They expect to leave the forces and walk into a high paid job, just because they served.

Not unreasonable.

Infanteers - especially Paras and Marines - Usually end up in £70K+ a year jobs at security companies - and they're the least qualified of the Army.

Everyone else emerges with qualifications and years of experience in their chosen trade - which often puts them above University graduates for jobs in those trades.

When you join the forces because you can't get a job, don't expect a pat on the back.

Well, we're actually turning University educated people away at the moment, because in this economic depression we're offering skilled jobs to skilled and experienced individuals. Military selection in the last 10 years has become a much more difficult process than joining any other government branch (including the NHS), and we're actually, as an organisation, very proud of what we do and who we are.

So no, the military is not just for people who can't get jobs elsewhere - those people generally can't get jobs with us either.


And finally:

in the UK the army is typically an escape.

You're wrong.

Simply wrong.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Soldier or not, just saying you're right because of it still makes you an idiot, in my honest opinion...

 

[Mr Pantomime]

I also toured Vietnam. Only twice though. And it was a bus tour. I bet this guy was one of those fancy boat tour guys. It makes sense that they have no concept of the value of money. I didnt kill anyone in Vietnam though. That may just be a boat tour package.

 

[surg3n]

I know what you mean. My brother is in the RAF, the air force in the UK, and we hear it all the time. What he doesn't talk about, is the fact that joining the RAF was an act of desperation - sick of working production lines for low pay, sick of claiming benefits, he joined the forces, and became a supply officer. When you join the forces because you can't get a job, don't expect a pat on the back.
I've met a lot of people in the forces, and to be brutally honest, maybe 1 of them struck me as intelligent, the rest were all future bouncers, future security guards, or had no future. They expect to leave the forces and walk into a high paid job, just because they served. None of the joined to 'serve their country', in the UK the army is typically an escape.

Well, I'm in the Army, and I can tell you that there are a damned sight more intellectuals in our organisation than a lot of people think.

The thing is, the RAF is not a single job - nor is the Army, or the Navy, I do a trade in the Army and work with some of the most intelligent people in the world in doing so. At the same time I know and have worked with the Infantry, which has more than it's share of retarded spastics who couldn't located Afghanistan on the map...

In both cases, I'd say people using the Armed forces as "an escape" are in the minority, and tend not to last very long or do very well - the majority of us chose it for other reasons (For myself it was to see the world, and because I've always wanted to be in the Army...).

They expect to leave the forces and walk into a high paid job, just because they served.

Not unreasonable.

Infanteers - especially Paras and Marines - Usually end up in £70K+ a year jobs at security companies - and they're the least qualified of the Army.

Everyone else emerges with qualifications and years of experience in their chosen trade - which often puts them above University graduates for jobs in those trades.

When you join the forces because you can't get a job, don't expect a pat on the back.

Well, we're actually turning University educated people away at the moment, because in this economic depression we're offering skilled jobs to skilled and experienced individuals. Military selection in the last 10 years has become a much more difficult process than joining any other government branch (including the NHS), and we're actually, as an organisation, very proud of what we do and who we are.

So no, the military is not just for people who can't get jobs elsewhere - those people generally can't get jobs with us either.


And finally:

in the UK the army is typically an escape.

You're wrong.

Simply wrong.

You have a point about people 'escaping' to the army not lasting long. Most of the people I know who did that are no longer in service. One friend of mine joined the Navy and only lasted 2 weeks, another joined the army and left after 6 months, both people who probably wouldn't get far anyway.

But I can only talk about my own experiences, I'm not in the army so I don't know all the details. I mean, how many fucktards do you think join the army every year only to be out again within a couple of months, due to injury, misconduct, or just holding up their hand and saying it's not for them. I have every respect for people who stick it out and make a career out of it, not everyone associated with the army deserves that respect. A guy I went to school with had a great career in the army, his career was being drawn towards special forces training. Then one weekend he comes home, goes drinking with some idiot friends, and ends up in jail for murder after beating the living crap out of someone. Thats not smart. The irony is that he definitely joined the army to escape, escape from his friends dragging him down, getting him into situations just like that.

Understand that I'm not trolling here, everything I'm saying is based on my experience - You have better experiences of the armed forces, and I trully hope things are better than what I've seen of it.

 

[Brinnmilo]

I've never encountered that attitude in England, I've encountered similar attitudes from Soldiers relatives where it's been a case of "well my brothers in the army...".

Regarding whether their opinions are worth any more than the average Joe: I guess it's similar to the "Well being a mother..." that you tend to hear all the time, for any kind of discussion, as if the biological ability to spawn some how increases knowledge on all things.

Soldiers are pretty well trained in a fair few subjects so I guess they may well be able to speak from a position of intellectual superiority some of the time. As for bringing up military service, the example in the OP is probably less to do with the fact the guy was a soldier and just because he's an old guy who's getting on a bit. Other wise I think it's just used as a mark of life experience?

 

[Stu35]

Understand that I'm not trolling here, everything I'm saying is based on my experience - You have better experiences of the armed forces, and I trully hope things are better than what I've seen of it.

Sorry if I came off as a little angry... Reading through this thread there's an awful lot of ignorance, your post wasn't necessarily one of the worse ones, however it specified the British armed forces, and I felt I had to try to defend my profession, my friends, my family, and my love, from the idea that we're just a dumping ground for life's losers.

So yeah, sorry if I came across a little rant-ish.

To get back on topic - I only ever use my military service to back up the fact I'm right when it is relevant to do so - The rest of the time it's sufficient that I'm simply smarter than them and know more about the world.

 

[babinro]

I get this a lot as a customer service/sales representative in a call center. Customer claims they deserve special treatment because of work in the military.

Since most soldiers enter this profession by choice, I see no reason to elevate them above the equality of others. Their actions certainly earn them a great deal of respect in my eyes, but that doesn't mean I'll treat them better than a McDonald's employee or anyone else.

 

[Bradeck]

Just in reviewing these posts, it seems as if the majority of this crowd of haters have never served in their respective military, let alone served their country in any respect, be it peace corps, or public office. So the fact that you all, as civilians, judge us, having never served, shows a cruel duality does it not?

To the posters who believe the Army is a free meal ticket, or an escape, or just for the under educated masses, here's a quick fact. The US military has a 5% success rate out of boot camp. That means 95% of the citizens who apply to become a Soldier, Marine, Airman, or Sailor can't hack it, and quit. The military is extremely difficult, just because you don't understand, and never will, doesn't allow you the right to categorize it as easy.

In response to the OP, a great deal of military folk feel entitled to a opinion, because they feel they "earned the right" to say what they feel. Right or wrong, there is something to be said for actually physically standing up for what you believe in vs. some chicken hawk who likes to cut people down from his desk in his parent's basement. One could make the case that a person who spends their life defending something, say a country, should be able to say whatever they feel about it, or in it. Same with Peace Corps. If you spend your life healing the sick, or giving aid to disenfranchised peoples across the globe, you have earned the right to your opinion, in my eyes.

On the other hand, if your greatest contribution to the world thus far has been getting 10,000 posts on the Escapist, and winning Magic tournaments, then perhaps your opinion is not worth what you think it is.

In any event, thank you all for expressing your freedom to say what you feel. You can thank your nearest military member for that if you wish.

 

[Stu35]

I get this a lot as a customer service/sales representative in a call center. Customer claims they deserve special treatment because of work in the military.

Yeah, there are dicks like that in the military - it's not helped that the media does treat us like gods. Or the fact that we are, infact, gods. .

Seriously though, can you honestly tell me that you don't get dickhead customers from ALL walks of life? Is it ONLY those in the military who ever seem to have shitty attitudes? Because if so I apologise for all of us. I remember when I was in Uni, I used to work in a cinema which gave student discounts, and even unemployment discounts, but no service discounts. Something which used to irritate me (having every intention of joining up when I was done with Uni), but ultimately I never once had someone ask for a military discount who complained about it.

... In fact, when you say customer claims they deserve special treatment, do you mean they ask for a discount? Because that's just something you learn to ask for in the Military - not out of arrogance or a specific demand to be treated special, it's just that many places offer us a discount but don't advertise it well... If this isn't the case, and they're whinging about it, once again, I apologise.

You sort of dodged the whole point and went on a rant of how the military were better than ordinary folk who don't kill people and actually try to be productive with their lives.

A worryingly ignorant statement.

1st - Not everyone in the military "kills people", infact, the majority don't,

2nd - Those that do, in the western world (I'm thinking specifically the forces of NATO nations), are generally doing it for a good reason (and in this modern counter-insurgency world, it's almost always self-defence or defence of the lives of others).

3rd - "Something productive with their lives"? I'm willing to bet I'm a damned sight more productive in my life than you are in yours.

Being in the military doesn't give you the right to say what you feel, that's freedom of speech.

As much as I despise the "Soldiers guarantee your freedom of speech" crowd, because they're generally baying Rednecks from the United States, I would like to point out that, in generations past, people in your nations military are the ones who guaranteed your current freedom of speech.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

As I'll do for the Afghans, and wherever else the political retards decide to send us.

 

[Stu35]

3rd - "Something productive with their lives"? I'm willing to bet I'm a damned sight more productive in my life than you are in yours.

What? You collectively helped lead your nation into almost complete bankruptcy. I wouldn't call that productive.

Am I in charge of the UK's budget? I wasn't aware.

 

[Caverat]

Meh, I don't think people in the military even deserve extra respect for being in the military. What are they doing for me? Running around in a foreign country that we shouldn't have gone in in the first place?

And then of course those that act as though it means they know more. People who use that just make me have an incredibly low opinion of them. It shows that they lack the intelligence to understand what it is that makes a position right. Because it's not that you're able to kill someone or that you think people owe you when they don't.

I agree, it's like how people who volunteer in soup kitchens don't deserve extra respect. I don't eat there, they're doing nothing for me. Then they have the audacity to act like they know more about the human condition, when all you need to know is that if you don't work, you are a bum and deserve the nothing you get. [/sarcasm]

I do enjoy reading this thread, it is quite amusing over-all. It's pretty obvious that military service doesn't make your opinion more correct in debates on unrelated topics. What I find amusing are the civilians who then criticize the military/its members as a haven for the escaping/under-educated. It shows their ignorance on the forces, and it tickles just a bit to see following the original topic.

Hypocrisy goes best spread over toast.