My understanding of Abathur's role was to guide that cellular evolution along specific routes. I think he's the explanation behind why the zerg evolve and absorb foreign organisms so quickly. Natural selection is one thing, but even in the Zerg it would need time to work, time they just might not have. So the overmind made Abathur to make the Swarm adapt much more quickly.
i liked it, the zerg always had sentient creatures, overlords and queens are sentient and take control over small numbers of zerg if they don't get order from higher ranking (read cerebrates or brood mothers)creatures.
the existence of specialized lieutenants doesn't bother me since it's more efficient than having the overmind do everything, despite the fact he could, especially considering that some tasks took his whole attention.
we knew that the zerg were gonna be less interesting than the terrans, it's just their nature. I actually thought Raynor would have been on the ship the whole time, just to have someone non-zerg she could bounce ideas off(say he was wounded and needs to spend time in zerg super healing goo).
i didn't like the primal zerg, their existence made no sense, Amon weaponized the Zerg in order to have an army and he didn't bother cleansing the planet he found them on? just no, if you plan to destroy and rebuild the universe and have millions of years to do it you better be super careful. couldn't it just have been some swarm of zerg forgotten somewhere along the way by everyone, preferably sent there by the overmind(because him making those huge, complex long-term plan makes sense, that's what he is there for).
Snip.
i didn't like the primal zerg, their existence made no sense, Amon weaponized the Zerg in order to have an army and he didn't bother cleansing the planet he found them on? just no, if you plan to destroy and rebuild the universe and have millions of years to do it you better be super careful. couldn't it just have been some swarm of zerg forgotten somewhere along the way by everyone, preferably sent there by the overmind(because him making those huge, complex long-term plan makes sense, that's what he is there for).
There is like 5 Zerg on the ship, it is barely anyone. However they all make sense to be talkng.
It is explained that Kerrigan gave Zagarra her free will, along with the rest of the Brood Mothers so that they could lead the swarm.
Stukov was experimented on after being infested and regianed his humanity although not his appearance.
Dehaka was never attached to the ovemind in the first place.
Abathur was freaking awesome and for him to be able to actually do experiments to make the Zerg stronger he needs his own intellect, plus he even explains in the dialogue that he was a part of the hive mind but Kerrigan saved him and gave him free will. Plus he is not the one who makes the Zerg evolve, he simply experiments on them and makes it so they evolve in the way that Kerrigan wants them too.
Even the wierd woman tied to the Leviathan has no personality, she is simply an advisor that tells Kerrigan about the battle and nothing else. AKA she is mindless.
I think this is a ungrounded complaint. Most people complaining about it don't seem to have bothered to actually read the dialogues.
Snip.
i didn't like the primal zerg, their existence made no sense, Amon weaponized the Zerg in order to have an army and he didn't bother cleansing the planet he found them on? just no, if you plan to destroy and rebuild the universe and have millions of years to do it you better be super careful. couldn't it just have been some swarm of zerg forgotten somewhere along the way by everyone, preferably sent there by the overmind(because him making those huge, complex long-term plan makes sense, that's what he is there for).
oh, i must have missed that, was this in a mission or an in between dialogue thing? And does this mean all the plants are zerg too?
and i have to admit that having a pack of primal zerg as a part Kerrigans forces but not of the swarm to serve as a kind of "special forces" was an idea i liked a lot.
Never played or was interested in Warhammer. So Tyranids weren't on my mental shelf when I made the comparison.
CorvusFerreum said:
But in all seriousness, have you played the Zerg campaign in the original StarCraft? There Cerebrates, which are a basicly Zerg generals (or tyranid synapse creatures), had a lot of chit-chat with the Overmind and later with Kerrigan.
I'm fine with the Cerebrates talking, same as I'm fine with Zagara or some other independent Brood Mother talking. The same set of cleverness need for leadership overlaps with speech. It's the primordials and random nonsense creatures like Abitur and Izsha that get my goat.
I could put with it if, at any point, the lot of them actually had something useful or interesting to say.
CorvusFerreum said:
Also: I haven't played HotS yet. So I'm not sure how far they take it.
But there's one thing that bugs me, plot-wise. It's the interminable conversations with Zerg, very few of which have any point.
Now, I've understood that the Zerg were something like the Borg; they're faceless, mindless monsters that obey the directives of an unknown, malign intelligence bent on the perversion or annihilation of all we hold dear. They're not supposed to be chatty.
Spoilered for people who haven't gotten a few planets in:
To be fair, I'm okay with Zagara talking. She's had reason to develop the critical thinking skills necessary to make conversations. It's all the rest, all of whom are completely unnecessary and serve no purpose. The Zerg don't need some weird pit master to evolve; as established in the previous game, they struggle for power and control right down to the cellular level. If we really need a face for Zerg evolution, Zagara can do it. Similarly, there's nothing that Izsha says that Kerrigan couldn't say for herself. Even more pointless is Dehaka, who just says weird, mystical things about evolution and essence in broken English. Least of all needing to talk are the Queens/Brood Mothers. Squeals and grunts got us by in the first Starcraft and there's no reason the same couldn't be done here. Ditto for the all the primordial Zerg, except the big, ancient one.
And if we really needed more talky bits in the game, would it have been that hard to keep Zeratuul around for a while?
Again, I am enjoying the game. But all this talking just bugs me coming from bugs.
Belial from Diablo 3:
http://i.imgur.com/Jl537jh.jpg
Primal zerg final boss:
http://i.imgur.com/onvF08V.jpg
Single player games from blizzard are a joke. Their hardest modes are cakewalks that dont deserve to be called games anymore. I don't want to run around with my super powered super kerrigan unit and blast my way to victory. its a shit game with tons of lore retcons that shits all over any mature preconceptions that any reasonable adult might have been lead to believe existed from the previous sc1 and broodwar expansion.
Zerg have always been surprisingly chatty, remember the cerebrates or whatever they were called from the first Starcraft? Only difference between then and now is Kerrigan presumably had all the cerebrates killed and replaced with queens because yay Matriarchy.
Seriously though, you'd think there'd still be at least a few cerebrates around. The player was a cerebrate in the first Starcraft, is that cerebrate dead now too?
Though it's never mentioned it's not hard to come up with a few thoughts on what happened to the Cerebrates. My opinion for what it's worth is that they were not to fond of the overlord's pet taking control or at least resisted her orders. And I have no problem imagining Kerrigan wiped them out as her first incarnation as the Queen of Blades was not one of reasoning and compassion.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of strange that there were so many talking Zerg. It used to be that the Overmind and the Cerebrates would communicate psionically, and only Kerrigan even had vocal chords, because she was originally a Terran. And why the Overmind would have bothered with evolving a creature like Izsha, I have no fucking idea. Same thing goes for evolution guy: the Overmind was a being of almost limitless intelligence, and I don't see it creating a single more creature with independent will than it absolutely has to, when it can do the job itself.
Because I've been watching someone play this, I did a bit of research on the history of the story.
Apologies to anyone very familiar with the lore. I may be getting some details wrong. This is basically a summary of several Starcraft wiki entries.
It comes down to this: The overlord is dead.
The overlord was being manipulated by some force to behave in a certain way. It was very intelligent though, and knew it was being manipulated, but the thing it was doing was so deeply ingrained into it that it couldn't break out of it by itself. - But, it could find little "cracks" in it's own conditioning that let it do small things to get around this.
One of these was to create Kerrigan. Kerrigan was deliberately created to be impossible for the overmind to control.
For that reason, Kerrigan could still think for herself, and did whatever she felt like.
Through various events the overlord died. This left the Cerebates, who were like the Zerg's equivalent of a general, and as a result the most intelligent zerg besides the overmind in charge, but Kerrigan didn't like them, and she killed most of them, then took over the zerg.
This is a critical point, because it means from the point that the overlord died, and Kerrigan became the Queen of blades, it was Kerrigan, NOT the overlord that ruled the zerg.
To answer your question then, Kerrigan, having a different idea about how the Zerg should be organised, changed their entire structure.
Instead of Cerebates being in charge of smaller groups of Zerg, she created the Brood mothers. - And Brood mothers were designed by Kerrigan to be much more independent.
Meanwhile, there's Izsha. You ask, why would the overlord create Izsha? The answer is, it didn't. Kerrigan did.
And Izsha's purpose is quite obvious, because it's stated outright several times:
Izsha is Kerrigan's (well, specifically, that of the queen of blades) memory. She was created for the sole purpose of remembering things in case Kerrigan forgot about them for some reason. - This is exactly what she does too ingame. Kerrigan asks something, and Izsha explains what was going on.
But to summarise the issue: Most of your questions can be answered with 2 points:
1. The overlord is dead.
2. Kerrigan/ The Queen of Blades created most of the more intelligent Zerg that you're unsure about, because that's the whole point of Kerrigan's existence. - To change the nature of the Zerg.
Though it's never mentioned it's not hard to come up with a few thoughts on what happened to the Cerebrates. My opinion for what it's worth is that they were not to fond of the overlord's pet taking control or at least resisted her orders. And I have no problem imagining Kerrigan wiped them out as her first incarnation as the Queen of Blades was not one of reasoning and compassion.
That's pretty much what the starcraft wiki says happened.
Kerrigan didn't get along very well with the cerebates. Also, when the overlord died, they tried to merge together to create a new overlord. And she didn't want that because it would challenge her control over the swarm.
I like to think the player character from SC1 is Matt actually, it makes sense after all: He's a deliberate and strategic mind that's loyal to Raynor and oversees the battles from the Hyperion.
The cerebrates on the other hand just all seem to have vanished, presumably killed off-screen by Kerrigan early on to consolidate her power.
I like to think the player character from SC1 is Matt actually, it makes sense after all: He's a deliberate and strategic mind that's loyal to Raynor and oversees the battles from the Hyperion.
The cerebrates on the other hand just all seem to have vanished, presumably killed off-screen by Kerrigan early on to consolidate her power.
I always just took it as you just killed yourself. IE the "Commander" from SC1 was killed on Char. The cerebrate in SC1 was killed by the Dark Templar and the protos guy was killed by the new cerebrate in Brood War. Makes it a little easier to explain if you ask me.
I actually haven't got a chance to play through Heart of the Swarm yet (still waiting for payday) but considering talking to my crew was my favorite part of Wings of Liberty's campaign, I imagine it'll be something I'll enjoy in heart of the swarm. I take a slightly larger scope when it comes to independent thought within the swarm, and since the death of the Overmind things haven't quite been the same for the Swarm in terms of its indoctrination. Kerrigan is the one who designed the modern queens, so it stands to reason that actually talking to them and having them talk back was something that she wanted.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of strange that there were so many talking Zerg. It used to be that the Overmind and the Cerebrates would communicate psionically, and only Kerrigan even had vocal chords, because she was originally a Terran. And why the Overmind would have bothered with evolving a creature like Izsha, I have no fucking idea. Same thing goes for evolution guy: the Overmind was a being of almost limitless intelligence, and I don't see it creating a single more creature with independent will than it absolutely has to, when it can do the job itself.
Because I've been watching someone play this, I did a bit of research on the history of the story.
Apologies to anyone very familiar with the lore. I may be getting some details wrong. This is basically a summary of several Starcraft wiki entries.
It comes down to this: The overlord is dead.
The overlord was being manipulated by some force to behave in a certain way. It was very intelligent though, and knew it was being manipulated, but the thing it was doing was so deeply ingrained into it that it couldn't break out of it by itself. - But, it could find little "cracks" in it's own conditioning that let it do small things to get around this.
One of these was to create Kerrigan. Kerrigan was deliberately created to be impossible for the overmind to control.
For that reason, Kerrigan could still think for herself, and did whatever she felt like.
Through various events the overlord died. This left the Cerebates, who were like the Zerg's equivalent of a general, and as a result the most intelligent zerg besides the overmind in charge, but Kerrigan didn't like them, and she killed most of them, then took over the zerg.
This is a critical point, because it means from the point that the overlord died, and Kerrigan became the Queen of blades, it was Kerrigan, NOT the overlord that ruled the zerg.
To answer your question then, Kerrigan, having a different idea about how the Zerg should be organised, changed their entire structure.
Instead of Cerebates being in charge of smaller groups of Zerg, she created the Brood mothers. - And Brood mothers were designed by Kerrigan to be much more independent.
Meanwhile, there's Izsha. You ask, why would the overlord create Izsha? The answer is, it didn't. Kerrigan did.
And Izsha's purpose is quite obvious, because it's stated outright several times:
Izsha is Kerrigan's (well, specifically, that of the queen of blades) memory. She was created for the sole purpose of remembering things in case Kerrigan forgot about them for some reason. - This is exactly what she does too ingame. Kerrigan asks something, and Izsha explains what was going on.
But to summarise the issue: Most of your questions can be answered with 2 points:
1. The overlord is dead.
2. Kerrigan/ The Queen of Blades created most of the more intelligent Zerg that you're unsure about, because that's the whole point of Kerrigan's existence. - To change the nature of the Zerg.
You mention that Kerrigan was impossible to control for the Overmind, but he tells us and his cerebrates that she is bound to his will just as any Zerg is ( Amerigo briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB3Q4c67EMM ).
Most of the remaining Cerebrates joined forces to form the new Overmind that the UED took over - they perished, and Word of God (Q&A session with developer) mentioned that Kerrigan slaughtered all the other Cerebrates, including the one aiding her in her campaigns sometimes after the Brood Wars.
I like to think the player character from SC1 is Matt actually, it makes sense after all: He's a deliberate and strategic mind that's loyal to Raynor and oversees the battles from the Hyperion.
The cerebrates on the other hand just all seem to have vanished, presumably killed off-screen by Kerrigan early on to consolidate her power.
I always just took it as you just killed yourself. IE the "Commander" from SC1 was killed on Char. The cerebrate in SC1 was killed by the Dark Templar and the protos guy was killed by the new cerebrate in Brood War. Makes it a little easier to explain if you ask me.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of strange that there were so many talking Zerg. It used to be that the Overmind and the Cerebrates would communicate psionically, and only Kerrigan even had vocal chords, because she was originally a Terran. And why the Overmind would have bothered with evolving a creature like Izsha, I have no fucking idea. Same thing goes for evolution guy: the Overmind was a being of almost limitless intelligence, and I don't see it creating a single more creature with independent will than it absolutely has to, when it can do the job itself.
Because I've been watching someone play this, I did a bit of research on the history of the story.
Apologies to anyone very familiar with the lore. I may be getting some details wrong. This is basically a summary of several Starcraft wiki entries.
It comes down to this: The overlord is dead.
The overlord was being manipulated by some force to behave in a certain way. It was very intelligent though, and knew it was being manipulated, but the thing it was doing was so deeply ingrained into it that it couldn't break out of it by itself. - But, it could find little "cracks" in it's own conditioning that let it do small things to get around this.
One of these was to create Kerrigan. Kerrigan was deliberately created to be impossible for the overmind to control.
For that reason, Kerrigan could still think for herself, and did whatever she felt like.
Through various events the overlord died. This left the Cerebates, who were like the Zerg's equivalent of a general, and as a result the most intelligent zerg besides the overmind in charge, but Kerrigan didn't like them, and she killed most of them, then took over the zerg.
This is a critical point, because it means from the point that the overlord died, and Kerrigan became the Queen of blades, it was Kerrigan, NOT the overlord that ruled the zerg.
To answer your question then, Kerrigan, having a different idea about how the Zerg should be organised, changed their entire structure.
Instead of Cerebates being in charge of smaller groups of Zerg, she created the Brood mothers. - And Brood mothers were designed by Kerrigan to be much more independent.
Meanwhile, there's Izsha. You ask, why would the overlord create Izsha? The answer is, it didn't. Kerrigan did.
And Izsha's purpose is quite obvious, because it's stated outright several times:
Izsha is Kerrigan's (well, specifically, that of the queen of blades) memory. She was created for the sole purpose of remembering things in case Kerrigan forgot about them for some reason. - This is exactly what she does too ingame. Kerrigan asks something, and Izsha explains what was going on.
But to summarise the issue: Most of your questions can be answered with 2 points:
1. The overlord is dead.
2. Kerrigan/ The Queen of Blades created most of the more intelligent Zerg that you're unsure about, because that's the whole point of Kerrigan's existence. - To change the nature of the Zerg.
You mention that Kerrigan was impossible to control for the Overmind, but he tells us and his cerebrates that she is bound to his will just as any Zerg is ( Amerigo briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB3Q4c67EMM ).
Most of the remaining Cerebrates joined forces to form the new Overmind that the UED took over - they perished, and Word of God (Q&A session with developer) mentioned that Kerrigan slaughtered all the other Cerebrates, including the one aiding her in her campaigns sometimes after the Brood Wars.
Yeah, as I said I'm not an expert on this. I haven't even played starcraft. XD
Sorry for the stupid mistakes though. Roughly speaking this is a summary of several entries in the starcraft wiki that I happened to read through:
eg:
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Infested_Kerrigan#Infested_Kerrigan
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Brood_mother
Trying to summarise what I read in about a dozen entries I only really read once entirely from memory is liable to lead to a few stupid mistakes...
Also, Starcraft lore turns out to be pretty complicated. Which really doesn't help. XD
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