Side Quests: Why Am I Doing This Again?

[FieryTrainwreck]

Dragon Age 2 has the worst side-quests I've seen in a while. They didn't even bother to flesh out most of them; you just find a random item and follow the marker on your map to hand it in to some equally random NPC you've never spoken to before. Reward? Bit of gold, bit of experience, and one line of appreciative dialogue. Dumb.

Games are just kinda "stupid" now. They hold your hand through everything. They only render areas with specific purposes, and then they very methodically guide you through those areas with prompts, markers, instructions, etc. I have little or no investment in any of it.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Snip

OP, listen to this guy down here.

Here's one word that I want you to remember when asking this question in the future.

Scope.

When there is 500 other things to do in games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age that aren't intricately tied to the story, they exist to provide extra gameplay, yes, but they are also there to give you the feeling that you are involved in a living, breathing, grand universe that has it's own shit going on that you may or may not care about.

There is a rogue VI on the moon. This elf lost his necklace in a cave. Space pirates have taken a politician hostage. Darkspawn are attacking a caravan of innocent people. An asteroid is heading right for a city. Elvish assassins are killing people at random.

Do you need to care about these things? No. Do you need to get involved? No. But you have the option, and the fact that they exist gives testament to your presence in a big world with lots and lots and lots of stuff going on.

Almost like in real life.

Thunderhorse has it totally correct.

RPG are suppose to give the feel you are experiencing a real world. Also, how long do you think it might actually take to deal with all the Geth and Reaper problems. What happens in between, Shepard certainly isn't twiddling his thumbs sitting in his cabin. He needs to gain resources and such to help in the fight against the Reapers. I remember in ME1 when Shepard knows that Sovereign is a Reaper, the thing is the Council and most of the Alliance doesn't believe it. So while Shepard tries to uncover more he still had duties to do other things the Council and the Alliance wanted him to. Don't you remember the little side quests that Admiral Hackett sends you on for Alliance interests. Some of them can be skipped, but they are part of the whole. Even the little things like getting information for people or taking out random mercenaries. They are the thing Shepard did in between the big stuff.

In the grand scheme of things, all that is happening isn't going to happen in a couple days. When I played both Mass Effects, I took it as that the events in each game probably took place over months maybe even a year for each.

Lastly, I will add that I look at RPGs like a television series. There is the main plot and then there are the little things that happen. For example, I've been re-watching Star Trek: Deep Space 9.

During the Dominion Wars, there were the episodes that furthered the main plot, but then there were the side episodes that told what was going on with the crew when the war was in a lull in their area. An example of this is the episode where the Ferengi Nog, after his leg had been damaged in the war, he became a recluse in the holo-suite in the early Las Vegas program. Eventually the whole episode turns out to be an Oceans Eleven spoof. Did the episode further the main plot that was going on, no, but it did give the viewer a look into what happened when they were on a small break from the war. We learn more about a good many of the other characters in the show and we get to see them have a fun time that gives them stress relief from the war.

Basically that is why side quests are in RPGs, and that is why I don't even care if side quests have anything to do with the main plot. Because in real life, there will always be something going on off to the side of what your main objective for the day is.

My main plot is to be lazy and play games, while my mom is yelling at me to take up the side quest of taking out the garbage. =P

 

[evilneko]

Does anyone else feel like Side Quests need a bit of an overhaul?

Not really, there's a simple fix for this problem. Actually two.

If the main quest is played up as an urgent zomg gotta do it right now thing, let the player continue playing afterward.

Or!

Hold off on making the main quest seem urgent zomg gotta do it right now galaxy needs saving until the player proceeds far enough down it that it's reasonably safe to assume they intend to complete it soon.

Fallout 3 went the latter route. At almost any point along the main quest, you could divert without really destroying the story.

The "finding Dad" part could quite reasonably take a while. Don't worry though, he's somewhere safe.

The "cleaning out the memorial and restarting Project Purity" part is fairly weak though. I imagine they'd eventually get tired of waiting on you, and either get Brotherhood help or take some Rivet City security guards to clean it out. There's a natural resting point right at the end of that part though.

The "Getting the GECK" part could easily take a while. It didn't really feel that urgent to me anyway. And then getting back afterward--well hell, no rush there either. Plenty of time for side quests.

Only once you start "Take It Back!" are you really locked in story-wise, where it doesn't make sense for your character to up and leave.

Mass Effect could be said to take the second route, depending on where you were in the main plot when you diverted off of the main quest. It starts off as a sort of mystery, and it doesn't break the story too much to go off on a wild goose chase and accomplish some side missions along the way.

Contrast that with New Vegas, where they try to make it seem like battle is imminent at Hoover Dam, and you're always one step behind Benny (so it would be logical to hustle to the next stop in hopes of catching up).

 

[evilneko]

While I was waiting for my post to actually appear so I could edit some things into it, I read some other posts in the thread. Yeah, I threadhopped and then read the thread in the lull between hitting post and my post showing up. I hate when my post doesn't show up quickly.

Lastly, I will add that I look at RPGs like a television series. There is the main plot and then there are the little things that happen. For example, I've been re-watching Star Trek: Deep Space 9.

During the Dominion Wars, there were the episodes that furthered the main plot, but then there were the side episodes that told what was going on with the crew when the war was in a lull in their area. An example of this is the episode where the Ferengi Nog, after his leg had been damaged in the war, he became a recluse in the holo-suite in the early Las Vegas program. Eventually the whole episode turns out to be an Oceans Eleven spoof. Did the episode further the main plot that was going on, no, but it did give the viewer a look into what happened when they were on a small break from the war. We learn more about a good many of the other characters in the show and we get to see them have a fun time that gives them stress relief from the war.

Basically that is why side quests are in RPGs, and that is why I don't even care if side quests have anything to do with the main plot. Because in real life, there will always be something going on off to the side of what your main objective for the day is.

My main plot is to be lazy and play games, while my mom is yelling at me to take up the side quest of taking out the garbage. =P

Yeah, but TV shows have the benefit of being able to shift away from the main characters to side characters like Nog. With an RPG, it's always the Player Character. If it's a real world, and the main quest is something that's supposed to be urgent, imminent doom if I don't do it.. then why is the Big Bad waiting on me to finish finding little Sally's cat before invading? If I faff about in New Vegas too long, the Legion should overpower the NCR and take over while I'm playing Blackjack. Oblivion too -- why is everyone waiting on me? I think games should let the player Refuse The Call if they want--and then let them play through at least some of the consequences of their refusal, for example in NV the player could try to survive in Legion-occupied Mojave.

 

[kingcom]

I agree that the problem is when games give a big oh dear god the universe/world is about to be destroyed any day now type of plot. They make it sound like its extremely important and has to be done right away but then there really is no time limit. Side quests are important though since they should serve to expand the games world and provide more depth.

Writing hasn't come very close to being good since the old days of Baulder's Gate and Planescape Torment.

I dont think you remember those games very well. Most of the side quests in those games were just as terrible story wise as side quests are today.

Yea cause quests which involve you tracking down a captain of the watch who murdered his family and is going through the agonising realisation that a cursed weapon has destroyed his life and believes (without you intervention) that hes in a self-destructive cycle thats only going to end in his own death. Or the side quest that involves you sneaking into an occupied keep thats actually being controlled by troops other used by other rival noble families that have been trying to take over and your still left with the struggle that regardless of you retake the keep and help the locals get rid of the troll/yuan-ti invaders theres the very real possibiltiy that due to the area's political system, the lack of a male patriarch, the character your trying to help is going to be forced to marry off to the family trying to get control in the first place.

Yea those side quests are soooo boring.

 

[ChupathingyX]

This is what I liked about Fallout: New Vegas (plus many other things of course).

1. Many of the side quests actually fit into the main story and have some kind of relation to it. Even the the quests in the DLCs have a lot of connections to the game world and the Mojave, plus they feature an over-arching story about the Courier and Ulysses (which will end Septermeber 20th...can't wait!).

2. The reason for the lack of urgency in the main quest is that the main factions are currently at a stalemate and need your help to give them the upper hand. The NCR are trying to deal with too many of their own issues, Caesar's Legion are re-grouping and getting ready for the the Second Battle of Hoover Dam and Mr. House is purposely waiting for the battle to begin so he can then act when it's over.

 

[Togs]

For the XP, loots and chance to krump stuff.

Plus if a sidequests in a game thne the developers put it in for a reason- not doing it is a tad silly.

 

[Vault101]

in mass effect and dragon age those games are very cinematic..so the side quests are fun to do

in other games though I struggle to find the motivation, especially when I have less time

though in NV the sidequests feel generally linked to everything

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Dragon Age 2 has the worst side-quests I've seen in a while. They didn't even bother to flesh out most of them; you just find a random item and follow the marker on your map to hand it in to some equally random NPC you've never spoken to before. Reward? Bit of gold, bit of experience, and one line of appreciative dialogue. Dumb.

Games are just kinda "stupid" now. They hold your hand through everything. They only render areas with specific purposes, and then they very methodically guide you through those areas with prompts, markers, instructions, etc. I have little or no investment in any of it.

Are you talking about that one sidequest where you find the charred remains of a Chantry sister, return them to some random guy, and all he says is "Oh I've been wondering where I left that!" like all the other similar quests?

 

[h@wke]

I thought Dragon age 2 did side, quests quite well. Not the gameplay in the quests themselves, which involved either finding random items or going here and killing some guys, over and over again, but the fact that they were often linked to the main themes of the story and you had a conceivable reason to do them, (e.g. funding the expedition), and I suppose it helps that you don't really have a overtly stated main mission like in Mass Effect, but rather you're reacting to each development as it comes.