Silent or Talkie? The endless protagonist debate.

[Saskwach]

It's been argued that players prefer characters that shut up and let them imagine themselves in the title role. There seems to be a lot of support for this view: Gordon Freeman is universally loved, despite being a PhD in Keeping His Trap Shut. Of course, this is only a rule of thumb. Some players don't resent a talking hero.
What's your stance, Escapistians?

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

i like the silent protagonist when the game is self aware and making inside jokes about the aesthetic. otherwise, i feel like a tool who is just along for the ride. i think the idea that a silent protagonist adds immersion is bullshit. solid writing and fleshed out characters you can personify creates empathy, which is an immersive element.

Valve could have made the game feel as immersive even with a speaking Gordon Freeman, they are just that good.

if you have a silent character with no pathos who just does what he's told or a speaking character who's motivation changes on a narrative whim.. then the story will always feel contrived, silly, and non-immersive.

 

[shatnershaman]

If they're silent they can't say "I need a weapon.".

 

[Sirisaxman]

I think it depends on the type of game, and of course, the gamer's personal taste. For more plot driven games, I believe it is essential to have a speaking protagonist, take Mass Effect, for example. If Shepard had been the strong silent type, it just wouldn't have drawn me in as much as it did.

On the flip side of the coin, games that are more mindless action don't really need much dialogue in general. When I play COD 4, for example, I'm usually playing it just to kill things, not for a cinematic experience. That's my two cents, anyway.

 

[end_boss]

It depends entirely. Some games, especially RPGs, I find far better when I imagine myself in the role, hence, "role playing game."

But most shooter games don't make much of a difference to me. Timesplitters: Future Perfect had some of the funniest cutscenes I've seen in a game, thanks to the main character's dorkiness. Most every survival horror game has pre-defined characters, and it works. In Quest For Glory, there are certain character quirks that are pre-determined, but most of it you make up yourself, and I found it incredibly immersive. On the other hand, other point-and-click adventures like Space Quest, Maniac Mansion, Monkey Island, Loom and Phoenix Wright are all explicitly preset characters whom you have little input into how they behave, and the experience is stronger thanks to your growing empathy.

To put it simply, it doesn't matter what the game does, so long as they do it WELL.

 

[shatnershaman]

It depends entirely. Some games, especially RPGs, I find far better when I imagine myself in the role, hence, "role playing game."

You must HATE Mass effect.

 

[Limos]

I just had to make an account to start replying to these threads...

Personally I like when the protagonist is not the character you are supposed to be. Like in Starcraft. You might be controlling Jim Raynor, and he talks to other people, but you aren't Jim Raynor. Just like you aren't Sarah Kerrigan or Fenix or Tassadar. They are all under your control, but you yourself are the silent commander, Executor or Cerebrate. Sometimes the characters make comments to you directly. You are the ultimate nameless faceless commander. This way you get to control the protagonist without falling into that trap of not being able to make plot decisions. Because ultimately the soldiers you are controlling have a little free will of their own. Starcraft doesn't try to pretend you are the hero.

Personally I love that. I love that my protagonist is completely under my control, but will talk to other people and advance the plot without me having to do the talking.

I hate how most games go to one of a few extremes. Silent protagonist who never speaks to other characters. But the characters react as though you had. Or chatty protagonist who has a very small library of responses that usually result in the same response whether you threaten to rip off their limbs or save their grandmother the NPCs all react as though you hadn't said any of that after the initial protest. The final extreme would have to be the NPC protagonist. More like a speaker you have ductaped to the back of your head that advances the plot whenever you get too close to an NPC. You don't choose what it says and you have no say in what it decides. If they mysterious protagonist voice decides "I should use that sniper rifle" you know you have to use the sniper rifle (and you wonder why you can't stop talking out loud when no one is around.)

So I guess I go for Talkie's. As long as the game doesn't try to pretend I am that character. If I'm supposed to be the hero why can't I turn down the damn quest and find something that isn't charity work. Why must I be the good guy!! I have all this power, I want to abuse it!!!

 

[shatnershaman]

I just had to make an account to start replying to these threads...

Personally I like when the protagonist is not the character you are supposed to be. Like in Starcraft. You might be controlling Jim Raynor, and he talks to other people, but you aren't Jim Raynor. Just like you aren't Sarah Kerrigan or Fenix or Tassadar. They are all under your control, but you yourself are the silent commander, Executor or Cerebrate. Sometimes the characters make comments to you directly. You are the ultimate nameless faceless commander. This way you get to control the protagonist without falling into that trap of not being able to make plot decisions. Because ultimately the soldiers you are controlling have a little free will of their own. Starcraft doesn't try to pretend you are the hero.

Personally I love that. I love that my protagonist is completely under my control, but will talk to other people and advance the plot without me having to do the talking.

I hate how most games go to one of a few extremes. Silent protagonist who never speaks to other characters. But the characters react as though you had. Or chatty protagonist who has a very small library of responses that usually result in the same response whether you threaten to rip off their limbs or save their grandmother the NPCs all react as though you hadn't said any of that after the initial protest. The final extreme would have to be the NPC protagonist. More like a speaker you have ductaped to the back of your head that advances the plot whenever you get too close to an NPC. You don't choose what it says and you have no say in what it decides. If they mysterious protagonist voice decides "I should use that sniper rifle" you know you have to use the sniper rifle (and you wonder why you can't stop talking out loud when no one is around.)

So I guess I go for Talkie's. As long as the game doesn't try to pretend I am that character. If I'm supposed to be the hero why can't I turn down the damn quest and find something that isn't charity work. Why must I be the good guy!! I have all this power, I want to abuse it!!!

You must like Mass Effect.

 

[stompy]

It depends entirely. Some games, especially RPGs, I find far better when I imagine myself in the role, hence, "role playing game."

You must HATE Mass effect.

Yeh.

As for me, I find myself nether here or there on the subject. If the character is but a crutch for the story, whose only use to allow the player to get A to B, then make them silent. If the story needs a protagonist who talks on and on, then make them one.

Make the protagonist silent or not, just, like end_boss said, do it well.

 

[Larenxis]

My ideal protagonist says things worth hearing. I've yet to find that nice balance between too much talking, and not enough, but I'm still looking.

 

[shatnershaman]

I like it if the characters leave the talkie talkie in the cutscenes for shooters and in game for RPGs (Bioware style).

 

[end_boss]

It depends entirely. Some games, especially RPGs, I find far better when I imagine myself in the role, hence, "role playing game."

You must HATE Mass effect.

I haven't played it extensively. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it, though. The dialogue trees seem fairly similar to that of Darksun or Fallout; sure, the dialogue is written for you, but you're basically choosing the tone of the response, be it polite, hostile, smarmy, etc. Both Darksun and Fallout are good examples of RPGs where I have no input on how they look, and my character's lines are pre-written, but it still allows a certain personal investment into the character. I should have also mentioned in my previous post that a good RPG should allow EITHER for me to imagine myself in the role, or at least to allow myself to live vicariously through them. This goes back to the discussion of immersion. Do I feel like I am somehow inhabiting the role? Or, like most J-RPGs, is the game actively trying to block me out of it?

 

[shatnershaman]

It depends entirely. Some games, especially RPGs, I find far better when I imagine myself in the role, hence, "role playing game."

You must HATE Mass effect.

I haven't played it extensively. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it, though. The dialogue trees seem fairly similar to that of Darksun or Fallout; sure, the dialogue is written for you, but you're basically choosing the tone of the response, be it polite, hostile, smarmy, etc. Both Darksun and Fallout are good examples of RPGs where I have no input on how they look, and my character's lines are pre-written, but it still allows a certain personal investment into the character. I should have also mentioned in my previous post that a good RPG should allow EITHER for me to imagine myself in the role, or at least to allow myself to live vicariously through them. This goes back to the discussion of immersion. Do I feel like I am somehow inhabiting the role? Or, like most J-RPGs, is the game actively trying to block me out of it?

I just pointed my gun at everyone good times good times.

 

[Enskie]

Nicely said, they also can't say "I'm a little ***** who can't fist-fight"
Then again, who am I to judge, I just like the combo of elite special ops soldier combined with roundhouse kicking ninja, Fear forever. But honestly, I love Halo, but how much cooler would it be with the MC engaging in hand-to-hand combat against Brutes....

 

[shatnershaman]

Nicely said, they also can't say "I'm a little ***** who can't fist-fight"
Then again, who am I to judge, I just like the combo of elite special ops soldier combined with roundhouse kicking ninja, Fear forever. But honestly, I love Halo, but how much cooler would it be with the MC engaging in hand-to-hand combat against Brutes....

There is melee button. But in realistic hand to hand it would have to be ANOTHER god of war rip off button pressing fest or have the game built around it like condemned.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

It's hard for me to choose, it's like asking a parent to pick a "favorite child".

I don't agree completely with BallPtPenTheif - but only because "bullshit" is a strong word - it can add immersion, it just depends entirely on the game.

Really, it depends on the neccessity (and I guess the budget too) of it. Games like Half-Life and CoD practically rely on the "no cutscenes" type of thing, and it's all from a floating camera, just surveying the action. They just give you a name and a job to do, so you don't feel so out of place.

Zelda and Metroid do fine without a talkative protagonist, as long as you see the person you just seem to be OK with it. You see the facial expressions (heck, even in Metroid Prime, you can see her eyes and brow through that visor) and body language, and it seems to be just enough. Most of the time, questions you have are answered quickly, so you don't feel the need to select "WTF IS GOING ON?!" and then listen to copious amounts of dialogue.


Mass Effect tried to do both, with the "create a character" but still made him/her talk...and I always picked the default Squeebert Shephard (or is it "John/Jane"?) - the voice they picked just didn't fit with anyone else. I spent so long trying to make a character with some scars and such (since I picked "Colonist" and "Sole Survivor") - but when I finally finished creating the character, Squeebert started talking...and I was just thinking "what the hell? That's not my tortured black commander Squeebert's voice, that's regular ol' John Shepard...This doesn't fit at all, it makes me look like the odd one out" - I didn't give up right away, but, I quit right before eden prime because I didn't want to get to the point of no return. I redid my info. - and even tried to recreate the main character so I could give him some scarring, since "Akuze" wasn't exactly a "scar-free" situation for the guy. Yet, I figure out, that you can't actually recreate or edit the default character - so I just said "bother this nonsense" - picked the default, and then got right back into the flow of things, and thinking "Ah, this is just right." - A silent character isn't the "Way to go" for Mass Effect, but hey, it did in Elder Scrolls and such, just made you pick a response, you just didn't hear it out loud. Characters reacted accordingly. Mass Effect is a bit too cinematic for a mute though.

In the end, I just can't pick, so I'll stay in the middle ground and not say "both" - but the "pre-made" character, who I control, but don't "create".

I never have and never will like the silent character approach. Doom, Halflife, Quake... If I was in any of those games I'd spend half my time screaming my lungs out, the other half insanely mumbling and talking too myself.

I get your point but I still want to defend those 3 games.

Half-Life: He's got that H.E.V. Suit - that might make a huge difference.

Doom: Doom Guy...if he had a "personality" - life just wouldn't be the same anymore. As for mr. space marine in the 3rd one - I turned off the hud, installed a laser sight mod, and the only way to tell what his health was, is by how loud he would scream. That's gotta be worth something...right?

Quake: Only played a little of the first few and the fourth one, and, it's a bit like Half-Life I guess. Silent Protagonist, but eveyrone else doesn't shut up. It's an iD game though so...you still scream!

 

[Limos]

I just had to make an account to start replying to these threads...

Personally I like when the protagonist is not the character you are supposed to be. Like in Starcraft. You might be controlling Jim Raynor, and he talks to other people, but you aren't Jim Raynor. Just like you aren't Sarah Kerrigan or Fenix or Tassadar. They are all under your control, but you yourself are the silent commander, Executor or Cerebrate. Sometimes the characters make comments to you directly. You are the ultimate nameless faceless commander. This way you get to control the protagonist without falling into that trap of not being able to make plot decisions. Because ultimately the soldiers you are controlling have a little free will of their own. Starcraft doesn't try to pretend you are the hero.

Personally I love that. I love that my protagonist is completely under my control, but will talk to other people and advance the plot without me having to do the talking.

I hate how most games go to one of a few extremes. Silent protagonist who never speaks to other characters. But the characters react as though you had. Or chatty protagonist who has a very small library of responses that usually result in the same response whether you threaten to rip off their limbs or save their grandmother the NPCs all react as though you hadn't said any of that after the initial protest. The final extreme would have to be the NPC protagonist. More like a speaker you have ductaped to the back of your head that advances the plot whenever you get too close to an NPC. You don't choose what it says and you have no say in what it decides. If they mysterious protagonist voice decides "I should use that sniper rifle" you know you have to use the sniper rifle (and you wonder why you can't stop talking out loud when no one is around.)

So I guess I go for Talkie's. As long as the game doesn't try to pretend I am that character. If I'm supposed to be the hero why can't I turn down the damn quest and find something that isn't charity work. Why must I be the good guy!! I have all this power, I want to abuse it!!!

You must like Mass Effect.

I've never played Mass Effect so I wouldn't know. But I'm pretty sure Mass effect is one of the Chatty Protagonists. Where you have a selection of responses. I either want to be completely free in my responses. Or totally seperated from the protagonist. Since I have yet to find a game where you can respond however you want I'll go with the latter.

(Just a note, if Mass effect lets you turn down missions that still isn't enough Unless I can also kill and rob the person trying to give them mission. Also everything in the game would have to be an object I can manipulate or destroy. If I can't blow up the planet it isn't free enough)

 

[shatnershaman]

Half-Life: He's got that H.E.V. Suit - that might make a huge difference.

Master chief can talk in his tin can so I think Freeman can through the orange spandex.

 

[TheIceface]

I usually prefer silent, its very rare that someone who does a talkie does a good enough job on the character for me to care about them. Let me give you an example, in a situation like KOTOR or Monkey Island where you can choose a bunch of different responses with varying enthusiasm, aggression, and sincerity, I enjoy having my character talk. Then there are the games like Halo, Timesplitters, and Max Payne. In these three games you can't decide what the characters say, and the level of enjoyment varies. In Max Payne you really get a sense of a deeply disturbed character, in Timesplitters you get the sense of a goofball macho-man, in Halo you get the sense of someone who likes to act cool with little actions or story to merit it. (I had the same problem with God of War, I never really saw Kratos as Badass, no matter how much he claimed it.)