It's not that bad, I've spent many an enjoyable afternoon doing chemistry over a bench.Realitycrash said:
since i am the protagonist of this life = universe you are, like everyone else, a minor character,
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kay, so here's how to strip solipsism naked:
Solipsism is simply a shell-game with terms. It gives things new words, and since most people are so focussed on words (instead of the meaning and relationships behind them) they don't notice that the solipsist's worldview changed NOTHING, but rather just suggested a change.
For once, wikipedia actually has this exotic info - it's at the end of it's article on solipsism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism#Solipsism_amounts_to_realism
In a nutshell, it works like this:
You perceive "you" at minimum via feedback of your own intentions: You command to do something, and see/feel/hear/etc it happen. This for example also is why you perceive your body as YOUR body. For simplicity's sake, let's call this "self" (the term "self" actually implies much more, but i don't want to make it too complicated for now).
In contrast to this, you also perceive things which apparently are not under your direct control, and of which you - besides of visual/auditory senses - get no feedback, unless you bring your "self" in contact with it. So, you notice that there apparently are things that are different from "self". Let's call this the "environment".
The important thing to understand here, is the relationship between self and environment. Your life for the most part is about functioning efficiently with the environment - and to do this, efficient interaction is necessary -> learning and all that stuff. It should also be quite obvious that this distinction is fundamental to many ethical ideas.
So far, so good. Now here's how the deception works: Traditionally, most humans in this culture consider their entire mind and body "self", even though they quite certainly do NOT have complete direct control over their entire mind and body. The reason why they do this, is because of society and culture - their attention is focussed outwards: dealing with stuff outside their body. Thus, they and their body becomes self, and everything outside of that becomes the environment/reality.
What solipsism now does, is to say that there is no "reality", and instead only what most people consider "self". By doing this, people get the impression that the environment no longer exists, and there is only self.
BUT: If the solipsist does NOT have complete direct control over what he calls mind, then nothing really changed: All those other "beings" still are the environment, and "I" still is self. Nothing changed at all - just the "substance" of the environment was renamed from "material" to "mental".
P.S.: Here's an analogy to understand this mindfuck better. Let's hypothetically assume that everything that is, is a shared dream. Every agent including you, modifies the dream according to certain seemingly static mechanics/rules. Well, if that is so, what is the difference again to the current popular worldview? All that changed was the naming of the "substance of the world".
Solipsism is simply a shell-game with terms. It gives things new words, and since most people are so focussed on words (instead of the meaning and relationships behind them) they don't notice that the solipsist's worldview changed NOTHING, but rather just suggested a change.
For once, wikipedia actually has this exotic info - it's at the end of it's article on solipsism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism#Solipsism_amounts_to_realism
In a nutshell, it works like this:
You perceive "you" at minimum via feedback of your own intentions: You command to do something, and see/feel/hear/etc it happen. This for example also is why you perceive your body as YOUR body. For simplicity's sake, let's call this "self" (the term "self" actually implies much more, but i don't want to make it too complicated for now).
In contrast to this, you also perceive things which apparently are not under your direct control, and of which you - besides of visual/auditory senses - get no feedback, unless you bring your "self" in contact with it. So, you notice that there apparently are things that are different from "self". Let's call this the "environment".
The important thing to understand here, is the relationship between self and environment. Your life for the most part is about functioning efficiently with the environment - and to do this, efficient interaction is necessary -> learning and all that stuff. It should also be quite obvious that this distinction is fundamental to many ethical ideas.
So far, so good. Now here's how the deception works: Traditionally, most humans in this culture consider their entire mind and body "self", even though they quite certainly do NOT have complete direct control over their entire mind and body. The reason why they do this, is because of society and culture - their attention is focussed outwards: dealing with stuff outside their body. Thus, they and their body becomes self, and everything outside of that becomes the environment/reality.
What solipsism now does, is to say that there is no "reality", and instead only what most people consider "self". By doing this, people get the impression that the environment no longer exists, and there is only self.
BUT: If the solipsist does NOT have complete direct control over what he calls mind, then nothing really changed: All those other "beings" still are the environment, and "I" still is self. Nothing changed at all - just the "substance" of the environment was renamed from "material" to "mental".
P.S.: Here's an analogy to understand this mindfuck better. Let's hypothetically assume that everything that is, is a shared dream. Every agent including you, modifies the dream according to certain seemingly static mechanics/rules. Well, if that is so, what is the difference again to the current popular worldview? All that changed was the naming of the "substance of the world".
Well, I think everyone thinks that because you can only view the world through your eyes, and the inability to not be able to see from someone else's view (literal, not thoughts) would make you feel that. As a kid I always thought my life was a really long film. It had crappy production rates.
Well, maybe you should adopt the Star Ocean:TtEoT mindset.
Using that logic, I guess you would be correct and wrong at the same time.
The universe is just a big MMORPG, and we are all just programs with a conscious.
Using that logic, I guess you would be correct and wrong at the same time.
Haha, zing.deathninja said:
..And did anything productive come out of that relationship? (Har-har).
Now that's really something hilarious to see, bahahaha! Guess you're inferiority complex is self-perpetuating! But seriously, to both the probationary member and all the solipsists out there and our grand host, I have this to say.Hubilub said:
Pulling these quotes up from Meowth of Team Rocket and Mewtwo himself; "Maybe if we started looking at the same, instead of always looking at what's different? Well, who knows?"
"I see now that the circumstances of ones life are irrelevant.
It is what you do with your life that determines who you are."
From an evening of nostalgia which revealed to me a surprisingly positive take on just what who and maybe what we are in life, it reveals to me the absolute irony that people make a distinction between 'who and/or what they are' and 'who and/or what they could possibly be.' We make that defintion at a moment's notice because we don't see the otherwise manic ability to actually be capable of whatever we want; learning and crafting and engagement don't simply get half-assedly attempted in school or college, we can go the whole day having something to do or someone to do even the most menial of thing with, and be better because of it. Its up to us to span our awareness of life itself, and that includes engaging every physical thing we like to come across as well as a possible few things we may never want to come across. Rather than trying to limit and define my mindset and my view on others, there's always gonna be a few things I'd like to see people being capable of. Otherwise they simply shut themselves off from their potential, wrapped up in their own arrogance, their own mix of conclusions and delusions, or, if they seek an intellectual justification, they look up 'solipsism,' and adopt the same 'awakening' a fundamental christian might have; a self-righteous and sometimes condescending idea that they have all the answers.
Whoa, that's a long rant. I didn't say this to offend any of you people out there though, I just hope you get to the point where you really begin to trust others and know that it ain't all bad, and hell, its sometimes a little interaction that engages you that could be exactly what you crave! Because, well, if anything of what you believe about solipsism is true, then its disproven if a quote from the first pokemon movie hints at the possible vastness of life we have yet to fully explore, a quote which is a flourish of life itself and not an empty promise, should we choose to act upon such ideals, which is a beautiful thing I realised. I already know my opposing viewpoint - anyone who hasn't really allowed such positivism in their lives and the unfortunate others who have such thoughts deprived of them -, which will confront and seek to undermine my behaviour which is reflective of this mindset by proxy. Some people might not want to listen, my relationship with my ex thought me that, but I have a feeling that solipsism, along with individualistic arrogance which is perpetuated in the western world as a rule, simply stems from the rejection and condemnation of this kind of thinking.
Copying and pasting this, I feel like this is something I needn't forget. Neither should you guys. Now have fun already!
Hmmm in that case... it's dangerous to go alone, take this
I think everyone thinks about that at some point, heck my first thought when reading your post was: "heh yeah... wait a second this could be some elabaroute ruse to make me think this idea is stupid *paranoia*"
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I'm used to seeing wolves in sheep's clothing, but yours actually is pretty good - i almost didn't notice the hypocricy:
Explore, develop and empower ones own potential? Sounds great, but wait... that's just the sheep's clothing. Subtle hints at the true agenda follow, but the real outing comes almost as a trivial sideremark near the end:Banana Cannon said:
Fucking for virginity, is all i can say about that.
Maybe I am a little biased, but hey, if you ever read the manga called 'Homunculus' up to its most recent point, it does go into a little bit of what you said there. Basically, the exterior, the public part of humans that people see, a combo of physical features and behaviour that you exhibit, its the 'form.' The modern, lay-thinking of my society heavily exploits this awareness into an obsession, and a certain 'form' is expressed as preferrable, not because it would be more USEFUL, but because it would be more PROFITABLE to a minority of upper-classed executives and EASIER TO PREDICT by marketers who would like to sell the image of this form, that somehow has an attached meaning, or promise, or false ideal which appeals to a person's values on a conditional level. There was a BBC documentary called "Starsuckers" I happened to find incredibly useful in regards to this subject.
After recently reading Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World,' the terms 'habit' and 'addiction' are now interchangeable to me, because even from a young age we are more preferrable to think in a way our parents, tv and toy companies would be able to predict and manipulate. Because the capacity of a child's mind to recieve and process information is at a faster rate than what we adults are capable of now without Trepanation that actually works(drilling holes in the head to increase blood flow and stimulate other parts of the brain, to really hack down an easy explanation), if that information is saturated a flux of both incredible intuitive fact which will be useful and inspiring, as well as Spongebob Squarepants and Big Time Rush, along with Come Dine With Me, and Celebrity Big Brother and finally depressing pop music which bores me, an enthrope, so much I'd mutilate an animal with nails, a hammer and a pair of scissors to break the monotony of low self-esteem choruses and/or such classics as Far East Movement's "Like a G6" do you think that this individual will be particularly be aware that some of the things they take as commonplace are actually completely the most pathetic forms of thinking and expression?
What I have gathered from a few things from a few works I have mentioned above when such thinking is lain beside all the things you expressed aptly as 'environment,' - in particular my 'environment' - I do realise that these dislikes I can throw at humanity's feet may stem from the sociological importance of 'form.' Rather than leaving it all to evenually rot and die in its own time, or simply leaving other people who are wrapped up in their own inherent disenchantment to their own flawed, unexamined lives, maybe its an ambition of mine to find something else in life than what I have been offered, and bring along in my search the efforts to try and really accomplish a mutual understanding and sincere compassion with another human being, so that we could both just achieve the best of our lives.
Because it just seems so pointless having a mind like this with nobody to accept it and share it with, as I'd accept their ideas and persona. That doesn't seem so impossible, does it?
And yeah, I get a little passive-aggressive when I come to think about just how many others are trapped into their own little boxes, but I'm not willing to settle with solipsism as a pre-requisite of my mind, because I still see that living and engaging through this world or environment has a purpose when you try to look through the physical form, and the behavioural need to conform that is inherent in many people. So, yeah, I'll back the potential for people to acquire a true sense of identity, ability and self-sufficiency, which may improve the 'environment,' seeing as it will focus a lot less about 'form'. I'm pretty sick of the alternatives! ;D
After recently reading Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World,' the terms 'habit' and 'addiction' are now interchangeable to me, because even from a young age we are more preferrable to think in a way our parents, tv and toy companies would be able to predict and manipulate. Because the capacity of a child's mind to recieve and process information is at a faster rate than what we adults are capable of now without Trepanation that actually works(drilling holes in the head to increase blood flow and stimulate other parts of the brain, to really hack down an easy explanation), if that information is saturated a flux of both incredible intuitive fact which will be useful and inspiring, as well as Spongebob Squarepants and Big Time Rush, along with Come Dine With Me, and Celebrity Big Brother and finally depressing pop music which bores me, an enthrope, so much I'd mutilate an animal with nails, a hammer and a pair of scissors to break the monotony of low self-esteem choruses and/or such classics as Far East Movement's "Like a G6" do you think that this individual will be particularly be aware that some of the things they take as commonplace are actually completely the most pathetic forms of thinking and expression?
What I have gathered from a few things from a few works I have mentioned above when such thinking is lain beside all the things you expressed aptly as 'environment,' - in particular my 'environment' - I do realise that these dislikes I can throw at humanity's feet may stem from the sociological importance of 'form.' Rather than leaving it all to evenually rot and die in its own time, or simply leaving other people who are wrapped up in their own inherent disenchantment to their own flawed, unexamined lives, maybe its an ambition of mine to find something else in life than what I have been offered, and bring along in my search the efforts to try and really accomplish a mutual understanding and sincere compassion with another human being, so that we could both just achieve the best of our lives.
Because it just seems so pointless having a mind like this with nobody to accept it and share it with, as I'd accept their ideas and persona. That doesn't seem so impossible, does it?
And yeah, I get a little passive-aggressive when I come to think about just how many others are trapped into their own little boxes, but I'm not willing to settle with solipsism as a pre-requisite of my mind, because I still see that living and engaging through this world or environment has a purpose when you try to look through the physical form, and the behavioural need to conform that is inherent in many people. So, yeah, I'll back the potential for people to acquire a true sense of identity, ability and self-sufficiency, which may improve the 'environment,' seeing as it will focus a lot less about 'form'. I'm pretty sick of the alternatives! ;D