Sins of Gaming

[Canadamus Prime]

Since microtransactions and lootboxes have already been mentioned I'm going to go with the practice of releasing various different "special" editions. Also pre-order culture.
Also sequels that have less features than their predecessors. Like I don't know about anyone else, but isn't a game sequel supposed to build on the previous one not detract from it?

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

One thing I'm finding myself getting more annoyed at the more it crops up is when bosses with large health bars just throw waves of standard enemies at you in a half-assed attempt to increase difficulty without having to think up any new boss actions or attacks. It's like in almost every fucking game now and some end up padding the fight to ridiculous lengths where most of it is spent navigating more of the shit you been fighting for the entirety of the game already. Where's the sense of awe and excitement when they merely outsouce their effort to another load of dullard mooks to distract you?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Oh, if you want the "real" ending, you get to replay the entire hospital scene again, with pretty much no changes at all except a few bit where you see what Venom was really seeing the whole time(because he has a big piece of shrapnel in his brain). Tutorial prompts and all. And after playing the entire game with all the goodies, having to replay a carbon copy of the first mission without being able to skip the slow bits just feels painful.

But hey, you get to find out that Big Boss was actually off having cool adventures without you the entire time and Venom is really just some random mook with a head injury who Ocelot was gaslighting the entire game(Sadly, the only time Ocelot actually acts like himself and not some dude with a taco stuck to his face).

....

See I told you that these stories would be better if you just made them up in yourhead while you go on.

Argh, you know what? It kind of hurts me that the gameplay is often decent, and the characters (when devoided of the plot) are often interestingly designed and choreographed, and pretty fun ... that why couldn't Kojima have just stuck to a more James Bond script?

Big baddie, interesting henchies, overarching mission... are people legitimately going to say it would be somehow worse if it followed this format of being a darker, grittier, but still as overblown James Bond storyline? Like the confusing multi-lifetime long plot and conspiracy, replace it with something like 60s/70s SPECTRE ... Are people legitimately telling me they would hate that in comparison?

I have a feeling why MGS3 did so well and why I liked it so much to actually bother watching the cutscenes is because it was just as overblown as a James Bond narrative, it started somewhat fresh that I didn't feel like I was missing too much by excising MGS2's plot related stuff out of mind...

With MGS4 there's only so many times I can take being told I'm old over incoming comms feeds that are initiated simply to set that up as a punchline to a joke ... and still be expected to take the games seriously.

It would have been funnier if that was more indicative to Snake trying to emulate Roger Moore pretending not to be old in his latter reprisals of the role.

 

[Dalisclock]

I have a feeling why MGS3 did so well and why I liked it so much to actually bother watching the cutscenes is because it was just as overblown as a James Bond narrative, it started somewhat fresh that I didn't feel like I was missing too much by excising MGS2's plot related stuff out of mind...

With MGS4 there's only so many times I can take being told I'm old over incoming comms feeds that are initiated simply to set that up as a punchline to a joke ... and still be expected to take the games seriously.

It would have been funnier if that was more indicative to Snake trying to emulate Roger Moore pretending not to be old in his latter reprisals of the role.

Yeah, MGS3 worked because it was kind of ridiculous and campy and just embraced that. MGS4 wanted to be super serious, by comparison, but kept all the weird ass elements around and it just didn't work. So we have a lot of talk about PMC's being bad and the world going to shit and the Patriots and Nanomachines but then we have breakdancing Cyborg Raiden and Ocelot killing a bunch of people with his fingerguns and it just feels so conflicted. MGSV had much the same issue, but doesn't even have the luxury of wrapping up dangling plot threads(and instead basically creates a bunch more that aren't resolved).

Peace Walker(which apparently nobody played other then me) actually kind of hits that sweet spot again. There's a somewhat serious plot about the development of autonomous mobile nuclear weapon platforms(Metal Gears) and using a neutral nation as a test ground as part of a huge proxy war between the CIA and the KGB, plus resolving Big Bosses lingering Mommy issues over killing the Boss and his disillusionment of being betrayed by his country in MGS3. But you also have a bunch of optional audio tapes that provide a softer, more humorous side to the characters(Big Boss seriously still believing in Santa Claus is a highlight, but so is him gushing over the idea of a cardboard box that's also a tank) and get to fight a bunch of giant AI controlled vehicles, the last of which is essentially a computerized version of the Bosses mind. Not to mention the interesting perspective of Snake and miller starting their own PMC and just kind of drifting into more and more morally questionable stuff, notably building their own metal gear and arming with a nuke to keep the world from messing with them and also because it's safer for their unsanctioned heavily armed para-military organization to have a nuke then some terrorists. And of course, kidnapping people off the battlefield to brainwa....convince them to work for you, as well as employing child soldiers and not seeing anything particularly offputting about it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I found the stealth part of Asylum always kind of felt really limiting and highly contrived, (the (lampshaded by the game itself, but still omnipresent despite the acknowledgement of it being nonsense) gargoyles being the poster boy of that). City had (generally) more open-ended approaches to maneuvers (both by being outdoors and I guess having the budget to make larger indoors as well), but felt like everything was being stretched to the max to accommodate the Batman variety show of endless cameos (I don't even remember what the Penguins whole section was about). And the general base mobility of the game kind of reduced the Metroidvania gadgets to being glorified key cards (or Mr Freezes gun of terribly awkward forced platforming segments).

Yeah, the stealth isn't what you'd get out of a dedicated stealth game, but I feel it had an arcade-y nature nature to it that fit the style, which is basically Batman TAS. If the Arkham games were along the lines of Nolan's trilogy in tone, then it definitely would've clashed. I actually thought the variety show aspect worked best in City. I never been that big a fan of Metroidvania honestly, I prefer giving the player everything at the start honestly.

Since microtransactions and lootboxes have already been mentioned I'm going to go with the practice of releasing various different "special" editions. Also pre-order culture.
Also sequels that have less features than their predecessors. Like I don't know about anyone else, but isn't a game sequel supposed to build on the previous one not detract from it?

Pre-order culture is all on us the gamers IMO. I don't really understand why people pre-order anything that will be readily available on release, it's not like you're really reserving anything. At least with even buying movie tickets early, there is a possibly of it selling out.

With AAA games constantly falling into the trap of kitchen-sink design, most sequels should probably have less features. Only put in the game elements that support the core experience. It's like how Tomb Raider should be about platforming and puzzles instead of being like some amalgamation of Tomb Raider, Uncharted, and Farcry.

 

[sXeth]

I never been that big a fan of Metroidvania honestly, I prefer giving the player everything at the start honestly.

Its a handy way of having an open map while keeping some things sealed for later (without having inexplicably weird stuff going on like a cave appearing where one didn't previously exist). Certainly can be misused, and I'm not personally fond of the "Repeat the entire level over to find the two higher up double jump spots where you get 1/4 of a life chunk" type stuff. You could write around it of course, or spend development time/money on making different time states for such locations, but there are always some sacrifices to such things.

I definitely prefer the Metroidvania gadgets to have some practical use outside of the unlocking of secrets/areas. Like the hookshot, bombs, bow, and hammer in Zelda (before BotW decided to scrap everything) all added mechanics to the combat besides being the passkeys for some areas. The "Gloves that make Link stronger but only in the sense of lifting rocks/statues", not so much.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I definitely prefer the Metroidvania gadgets to have some practical use outside of the unlocking of secrets/areas. Like the hookshot, bombs, bow, and hammer in Zelda (before BotW decided to scrap everything) all added mechanics to the combat besides being the passkeys for some areas. The "Gloves that make Link stronger but only in the sense of lifting rocks/statues", not so much.

In Arkham City, you could use most gadgets in combat very quickly (one of the main improvements from Asylum) from the freeze stuff to the electrical charge. The stuff you couldn't quick-use in combat, you could use for stealth purposes with some creativity. I recall definitely having to use most things to do those Predator challenges.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

The most wrote and uninspired plots you can imagine.

Kinda exclusive to JRPGs for the most part but I want to talk about the specific one I hate hate HATE, which is, "There's this vaguely Christian religion in this world and it will turn out to be EVIL and the god they worship will be EVIL and the final boss that you need to kill".

Like holy shit this trope is only outdone by the "rescue the princess" trope. Look I understand that people love to hate on Christianity and religion in general but there comes a point where you need to get over it at least for the sake of having a plot that I can't spot from the first 10 minutes of the game (I'm looking at you Grandia 2).

As much as Dragon Quest is considered rather basic, at least the religion in that world IS in fact played straight.

There's other plot elements that I'm just sick of like, oh here's your town, it's going to get destroyed or you'll be banished from it after the prologue of the game! Or, OH NO your partner/boss was EVIL the whole time!

I don't need plots to be super creative or have tons of detail or be really serious, depending on what kind of game it is or what tone it has it doesn't need those things. But at least put some amount of effort into making a plot that has some kind of personal touch to it.

 

[Dalisclock]

The most wrote and uninspired plots you can imagine.

Kinda exclusive to JRPGs for the most part but I want to talk about the specific one I hate hate HATE, which is, "There's this vaguely Christian religion in this world and it will turn out to be EVIL and the god they worship will be EVIL and the final boss that you need to kill".

Like holy shit this trope is only outdone by the "rescue the princess" trope. Look I understand that people love to hate on Christianity and religion in general but there comes a point where you need to get over it at least for the sake of having a plot that I can't spot from the first 10 minutes of the game (I'm looking at you Grandia 2).

It's funny, I was just thinking about this. The "God/Church is evil" plot was kinda cool the first time I saw it. The problem is that JRPGs in general have shown a bad tendency to fall back on it over and over again to the point it's more of a twist when the church isn't evil.

And I have plenty of issues with religion IRL, so this isn't even me being offended(other then by them being fucking lazy).

It would be nice if writers would do just a bit of research into the religion they are trying to comment on and maybe write a half nuaced take on the whole thing. The Thief games did a decent enough job at this, having a church that, while a bit dickish at times, had some valid points. In a similar Vein, Dishonored and the church of the everyman.

 

[sXeth]

I definitely prefer the Metroidvania gadgets to have some practical use outside of the unlocking of secrets/areas. Like the hookshot, bombs, bow, and hammer in Zelda (before BotW decided to scrap everything) all added mechanics to the combat besides being the passkeys for some areas. The "Gloves that make Link stronger but only in the sense of lifting rocks/statues", not so much.

In Arkham City, you could use most gadgets in combat very quickly (one of the main improvements from Asylum) from the freeze stuff to the electrical charge. The stuff you couldn't quick-use in combat, you could use for stealth purposes with some creativity. I recall definitely having to use most things to do those Predator challenges.

That reminds me, and combing back to original topic. Random disconnected challenge modes would probably go on my list. I'd probably give it a pass as DLC or whatever, but if you were making it at the same time as the game, why didn't you incorporate this advanced idea into the game proper.

Also yeah, you *could* use the gadgets in combat, but I don't recall anything that really provided much impetus to do so. Bats was just too brokenly OP (and his enemies just being trash fodder) to make it more then a novelty.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Yeah, MGS3 worked because it was kind of ridiculous and campy and just embraced that. MGS4 wanted to be super serious, by comparison, but kept all the weird ass elements around and it just didn't work. So we have a lot of talk about PMC's being bad and the world going to shit and the Patriots and Nanomachines but then we have breakdancing Cyborg Raiden and Ocelot killing a bunch of people with his fingerguns and it just feels so conflicted. MGSV had much the same issue, but doesn't even have the luxury of wrapping up dangling plot threads(and instead basically creates a bunch more that aren't resolved).

Peace Walker(which apparently nobody played other then me) actually kind of hits that sweet spot again. There's a somewhat serious plot about the development of autonomous mobile nuclear weapon platforms(Metal Gears) and using a neutral nation as a test ground as part of a huge proxy war between the CIA and the KGB, plus resolving Big Bosses lingering Mommy issues over killing the Boss and his disillusionment of being betrayed by his country in MGS3. But you also have a bunch of optional audio tapes that provide a softer, more humorous side to the characters(Big Boss seriously still believing in Santa Claus is a highlight, but so is him gushing over the idea of a cardboard box that's also a tank) and get to fight a bunch of giant AI controlled vehicles, the last of which is essentially a computerized version of the Bosses mind. Not to mention the interesting perspective of Snake and miller starting their own PMC and just kind of drifting into more and more morally questionable stuff, notably building their own metal gear and arming with a nuke to keep the world from messing with them and also because it's safer for their unsanctioned heavily armed para-military organization to have a nuke then some terrorists. And of course, kidnapping people off the battlefield to brainwa....convince them to work for you, as well as employing child soldiers and not seeing anything particularly offputting about it.

Hrm ... I'll give Peace Walker a playthrough then. I really liked MGS3 so if it captures those types of campy, over the top feel I'll probably enjoy it. That being said, andI must confess I might be the only one, but I actually really, really enjoyed the Acid games. Deckbuilding tactical strategy game. I'm going of hoping for Nintendo to try and pick up that licence personally.

 

[cdfgku]

Might a middling moist mammal make a meek modicum of motion? Manatees are missing in most this malevolent musky medium.

Mmm...maybe Majestic Manatees mustn?t be messing or misbehaving with malificently mischievous matters?

 

[Dalisclock]

Yeah, MGS3 worked because it was kind of ridiculous and campy and just embraced that. MGS4 wanted to be super serious, by comparison, but kept all the weird ass elements around and it just didn't work. So we have a lot of talk about PMC's being bad and the world going to shit and the Patriots and Nanomachines but then we have breakdancing Cyborg Raiden and Ocelot killing a bunch of people with his fingerguns and it just feels so conflicted. MGSV had much the same issue, but doesn't even have the luxury of wrapping up dangling plot threads(and instead basically creates a bunch more that aren't resolved).

Peace Walker(which apparently nobody played other then me) actually kind of hits that sweet spot again. There's a somewhat serious plot about the development of autonomous mobile nuclear weapon platforms(Metal Gears) and using a neutral nation as a test ground as part of a huge proxy war between the CIA and the KGB, plus resolving Big Bosses lingering Mommy issues over killing the Boss and his disillusionment of being betrayed by his country in MGS3. But you also have a bunch of optional audio tapes that provide a softer, more humorous side to the characters(Big Boss seriously still believing in Santa Claus is a highlight, but so is him gushing over the idea of a cardboard box that's also a tank) and get to fight a bunch of giant AI controlled vehicles, the last of which is essentially a computerized version of the Bosses mind. Not to mention the interesting perspective of Snake and miller starting their own PMC and just kind of drifting into more and more morally questionable stuff, notably building their own metal gear and arming with a nuke to keep the world from messing with them and also because it's safer for their unsanctioned heavily armed para-military organization to have a nuke then some terrorists. And of course, kidnapping people off the battlefield to brainwa....convince them to work for you, as well as employing child soldiers and not seeing anything particularly offputting about it.

Hrm ... I'll give Peace Walker a playthrough then. I really liked MGS3 so if it captures those types of campy, over the top feel I'll probably enjoy it. That being said, andI must confess I might be the only one, but I actually really, really enjoyed the Acid games. Deckbuilding tactical strategy game. I'm going of hoping for Nintendo to try and pick up that licence personally.

Just fair warning, PW's gameplay does take a little bit of a step back in some ways. Snake, unfortunatly can no longer crawl, though considering how small most of the maps are(instead of really big maps, you move through a series of small ones), I suspect this is for balance purposes(and the enemies can't see terribly well to begin with). So coming off a game like MGS4 or MGSV feels wierd.

OTOH, you have this.

 

[Souplex]

Any stealth game that advertises itself as an rpg. Notable examples include Deus Ex: Human resources, and Dishonored.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Since microtransactions and lootboxes have already been mentioned I'm going to go with the practice of releasing various different "special" editions. Also pre-order culture.
Also sequels that have less features than their predecessors. Like I don't know about anyone else, but isn't a game sequel supposed to build on the previous one not detract from it?

Pre-order culture is all on us the gamers IMO. I don't really understand why people pre-order anything that will be readily available on release, it's not like you're really reserving anything. At least with even buying movie tickets early, there is a possibly of it selling out.

With AAA games constantly falling into the trap of kitchen-sink design, most sequels should probably have less features. Only put in the game elements that support the core experience. It's like how Tomb Raider should be about platforming and puzzles instead of being like some amalgamation of Tomb Raider, Uncharted, and Farcry.

I can see what you're getting at with kitchen-sink design problem, but in principle I still think a game sequel should build on its predecessor not subtract from it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

That reminds me, and combing back to original topic. Random disconnected challenge modes would probably go on my list. I'd probably give it a pass as DLC or whatever, but if you were making it at the same time as the game, why didn't you incorporate this advanced idea into the game proper.

Also yeah, you *could* use the gadgets in combat, but I don't recall anything that really provided much impetus to do so. Bats was just too brokenly OP (and his enemies just being trash fodder) to make it more then a novelty.

At least in City (and probably Asylum, I don't think Knight had the challenge rooms), I think most (possibly all) of the challenge rooms were taken straight out of the levels in the game. So the challenge rooms were mainly just menu-based fast travel to said encounters in essence. I'm not sure how you could basically naturally fit in such content outside of how Horizon did with its Hunting Grounds. The Riddler trophies that were locked in cages were basically challenges organically inserted into the world.

I felt the gadgets were integrated well into the combat outside of like the explosive gel that really didn't feel worth doing plus being basically a 2-step process and just didn't flow well honestly. The quick-use batclaw was this awesome clothes-line attack, the electric charge had a specific enemy it was awesome against and set them flying, freezing enemies is sorta self-explanatory, and batarangs always have solid utility.