Skinheads Against Racial Prejudices

[mark0217]

Seriously, SHARPs are as bad as the other sort of skinhead. They're all thugs looking for someone to beat up and mug. There are no ideals or a shred of "goodwill" behind it all, just the thrill of ganging up on other people to feel powerful.

 

[Gamine]

I dont get, are Skinheads a race now?

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

That's the crazy thing about the Confederate flag identity--the people who embrace that flag today are the kind of people who were also victims of that slave-owning class which created the government that flag represented.

I could cherry-pick and make the North look bad, too. Lincoln hated abolitionists. Or I could say the same about the American flag today. Statists always have an excuse for violence and death.

You could make the North look *horrible*

In fact, someone already has if we're talking about the Revolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Beard

However, not nearly as horrible as the forces behind the creation of the Confederacy. Just because two groups are not perfect, that does not mean they are equal. No matter how politically incorrect it is to say it, the Confederacy was NOT going to lead to anything but one big slave plantation anytime soon. Like I said, it's not PC to say that, but I'm not a PC kinda person.

I don't know what you mean. What you are saying is not only PC, it's the definition of PC.

The same person can do one thing wrong while doing another thing right. I believe that is fair to say of both the United States and the Confederacy.

EDIT: Now that I think about it- thank you. I usually expect to be called racist outright, and I thank you for being better than that.

 

[Lavi]

Nazis, killed the jews because they needed to steal the idea of mass murder from the last person who did it.

 

[Dele]

Putting all of the stuff I said above aside, people who use Confederate flags as decor should realize that that action usually scares the hell out of minorities, specifically black people. Which means that if you are going to go around waving a Confederate flag, don't be abrasive, which is something that so many people who wave their flags like that often are.

Confederate flag symbolizes rock'n'roll and rebelliousness here, so some foreign black people wont play until the flag has been removed, even though it has nothing to do with racism.

 

[S.H.A.R.P.]

Then, if SHARPs beliefs and ideology are so completely different to the racist skinhead variety, how come they still dress and look so similar?

That's not an easy question for me to answer. I think it is a matter of pride, and personal identity. If injustice has been bestowed upon you, do you cower in a corner? Or do you stand your ground, keep your head up, and continue your life regardless of how strange that may appear to the outside world? It's not the same I know, but it's the best analogy I can come up with this early in the morning.

If I were completely opposed to their version of skinhead, I'd do all I can to avoid being grouped in with those who bogarted my style.
Is preserving their old style really worth being grouped in with them?
Or do they, on a less obvious level, not even mind being confused with them?
Do you see what I mean?

They do mind being confused with them. Remember, they are Against Racial Prejudice, and part of the SHARP identity is to actively oppose racism. Perhaps preserving their style is offensive to other people not aware of their way of thinking, but their struggle is a tough one, and they don't have many ways to oppose the nazi skinheads. Not talking for others but just for myself: love and peace will prevail, hate and bigotry will be vanquished. No matter how long it takes, skinheads should be remembered with a positive thought, not as nazi's.
I'm sorry that I can't give a more conclusive answer than that at the moment.

Well you're not real skinheads then, are you.

Who? And please define 'real skinheads' (do you mean nazi skinheads or others?).

2 questions:

1) So what exactly is being a skinhead, besides listening to Ska and Soul?

2) Are you so attached to the word, "Skinhead" that you can't let it go in favor of a identification with less bad press? I mean, its just a word. I stopped useing the term, "******" when it came to be associated with gays instead of a bundle of firewood, no big sacrifice there even though I liked the word. So basically, does the word itself, "Skinhead" have some specific significance and meaning that's worth holding on to?

1. Basically, a skinhead is a person who conforms himself with the skinhead identity. Part of that identity is a shaven head (for males), and the distinct clothing. Just like Goths or Emos can be identified in the same way (with difference in appearance of course). Their way of thinking is different for various 'factions' of skinheads, but originally they were mostly lower class British youngsters, influenced by the Mod scene, resisting the middle class movements like flowerpower. Living in the poorer districts, they came into contact with Jamaican music like Ska and Reggae. Banding together, they became influenced by Jamaican youth-gangs called the rude boys, who also shaved their heads.

2. I have no idea. I myself, as I have mentioned before, and not a serious skinhead. But a couple of friends of mine apparently don't mind holding on to it. Perhaps the place where they come from are more accepting of this, not associating it so much with racism. Hence it's not as hard to attain the Skinhead identity. Nice analogy with the word ****** by the way. I also regret that 'gay' is now being used to describe a homosexual person, instead of it's real definition which is basically 'fun'.

*snipped for length*
Sorry for the offtopic-ness of this post.

No problem, I found it an interesting read regardless, and it is not fully of topic.

The similiarity of our avatars is quite disturbing in many ways...

It's typical media trick to demonize a minority. For example, people still think that Mormons support polygamy even though it has not been the official stance of Mormon Church for over hundred years.

Hehe not exactly disturbing, Trojans are just cool! And if you were wondering, they trojan symbol fro SHARPS is based on the logo for Trojan Records, which originally mainly released black Jamaican ska, rocksteady and reggae artists.

*snipped for length*

So if there are a lot of you, it's not okay to be prejudiced towards you. If there are only a few of you, prejudice is okay.

Hmm, not exactly the most progressive attitude towards prejudice, I would say.

*takes of his metaphorical hat, and bows low*

I don't know where you got the human rights organisation idea from, but I do like the idea of carebears, they are quite the awesome critters.

I think I like you. Also, some of the skinheads I know are very cuddly and nice like carebears...I'll have to check their stomachs the next time I see them. This may be a conspiracy...

Didn't know there was a SHARPie hanging around these boards. Interesting, and nice to see you. I've had this argument with several people before. Along with the straight-edge argument where people assume because I am sXe I go around beating up and destroying property of people who smoke. Yay for the media showing the worst facet of a subculture and making life lovely for the rest of us!

Why should they give up their culture because some jerks came along and started making it harder for them? Do you think Christians will give up the cross if some idiots come along being jackasses? Do Muslims renounce Islam because of Al-Qaeda? Would you stop dressing and acting the way you do because someone else's ignorance? No, and you shouldn't have to.

Think what you like, it probably won't matter to either the SHARPS or the Boneheads or any in-between.

Well met, fair citizen. Please be welcomed in our humble adobe, may you be comfortable and enjoy your stay! Coffee and cookies are at your own expense. Toilet costs 50 cents per use.

Well, I learned something today. And it is good useful knowledge too.

*snip*
Anyway I feel enlightened about a movement I was unaware of before, and I thank you for it.

I had absolutely no idea about this. Thanks a lot for the schooling.

Glad to have been able to inform you!

*snip*

And I am a long curly haired person for the criminalisation of midget-tossing, but did you really need to know that ? This thread is an answer to a question nobody asked, and the originally quoted post was, imo, pretty valid.

While I agree that this is an answer to a question nobody asked, it appears to be a piece of information some people appreciate learning about. Are you offended by learning something new (if it is in fact new information for you)? If so, why bother replying? If so, why continue living?

Seriously, SHARPs are as bad as the other sort of skinhead. They're all thugs looking for someone to beat up and mug. There are no ideals or a shred of "goodwill" behind it all, just the thrill of ganging up on other people to feel powerful.

Of course! You are absolutely right! How could I have ever thought otherwise! I will call up these so called 'friends' of mine, and tell them they have been deceiving me! They weren't very nice and welcoming people, they were somehow tricking me into believing they like me! Thank you so much for pointing this out, who knows that after five years of good friendship what they might have done to me!

I dont get, are Skinheads a race now?

I think you missed a point somewhere. Think of them as some sort of alternative subculture, just like punks and goths are subcultures to. But different. Perhaps if you read anything you might become a bit wiser in the process.

Nazis, killed the jews because they needed to steal the idea of mass murder from the last person who did it.

Ehm... Right.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

If the definition of PC is whenever someone on the liberal side of things complains, but when someone one the conservative side complains, well, that's not a very good definition.

(I like to avoid long quotes, but of course I mean to address your entire post)

This is the only definition I have ever known. I don't know who you are with your compassion and understanding, but I thank you.

But on the Confederacy, I remain unconvinced. Believe me, I don't feel that both sides must have balance- I resort to balance simply because I feel I cannot say the North was more wrong than the South without being called racist or worse. Perhaps I have opened the floodgates with that admission, but if it was coming, it certainly would have come long before this.

I think you're using the worst aspects of the Confederacy to represent it as a whole, and the best aspects of the United States to represent them as a whole. Which sums up most school text books quite well, in fact. It's like if I were to say the South were noble freedom fighters and nothing else, and the north were baby killing, mother raping pillagers and nothing else. I think it's fair to say that Northern industrialists actively expanded their own power at the expense of laborers. Late nineteenth century U.S. history isn't pretty.

I could go on, but I don't see much point to it. Those who strongly favor one side or the other never change their minds, in my experience. Suffice it to say I think employing unprecedented carnage and death to end slavery (and I'm being generous on that point) is like invading Iraq to reduce terror at home- it's the most roundabout, bizarre, and self-serving means of achieving what otherwise would be an attainable political goal.

 

[DoW Lowen]

Shame for SHARP. Thanks for the eye opener I'll try to be more considerate of you guys, hopefully I don't approach the wrong crowd and get stabbed for being of Asian ethnicity. Although it's more likely that an Asian would stab me ironically. Between you and me and where I grew up, I have a better chance with the neo-nazi's.

 

[Sovvolf]

Yeah stupid Nazis, they destroyed every think the Swatsticka stood for and they basterdised skin heads evil people.

 

[Drifter90]

You'd like the film This Is England, it's all based in the 70's and explores the original skinhead and skar movement and shows the differences between the then emerging racist fascists and the proper skinheads.

I signed up for this board just to mention that movie.

I'd really recommend the movie to anyone who found S.H.A.R.P's post interesting. (Including S.H.A.R.P)

 

[iain62a]

Wing.Yes, in the most boring position.

I used to play wing. It really is the worst position on the field, and I've played in a lot of other positions(full-back, centre, second row, number eight- as well as openside and blindside flanker). I've been blindside flanker for a while now though.


On Topic: Excellent post, though I already knew about SHARP. It's good that you're telling people about it, and hopefully showing them that a lot of the bad press on skinheads is untrue.

Also: This Is England is a very good film.

 

[chefassassin2]

I went to a show a few nights ago and actually had to explain the meaning of skinhead to my mum. She had the view of the whole "neo-nazi" skinhead too and i was going with a few skinhead mates of mine and took half an hour explaining this exact thread. Wish I would've known this was here, I could've saved my breath. Thank you for the post.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

But on the Confederacy, I remain unconvinced. Believe me, I don't feel that both sides must have balance- I resort to balance simply because I feel I cannot say the North was more wrong than the South without being called racist or worse.

...

I think it's fair to say that Northern industrialists actively expanded their own power at the expense of laborers. Late nineteenth century U.S. history isn't pretty.

One, even if that is true, I'd rank exploiting workers lower than enslaving them when it comes to evil, wouldn't you?

Two, the North was never under the control of the Industrialists the way the Confederacy was under the control of the Slave Owners. That's not a matter of differing opinions, that's a matter of differing facts.

I could go on, but I don't see much point to it. Those who strongly favor one side or the other never change their minds, in my experience. Suffice it to say I think employing unprecedented carnage and death to end slavery (and I'm being generous on that point) is like invading Iraq to reduce terror at home- it's the most roundabout, bizarre, and self-serving means of achieving what otherwise would be an attainable political goal.

That's what I mean--you've been sold this idea that the reason for the long-standing issues surrounding the Civil War have to do with the Civil War. They don't--they have to do with the failures of Reconstruction. In fact, to parallel Iraq, the KKK was formed as an organization to fight the same kind of asymetrical war of terror that we saw happen in Iraq.

Another lie the 'Confederate' people have told you. If you want to blame someone, blame John Wilkes Booth: if Lincoln had been in charge of Reconstruction, it probably would have looked more like when the U.S. went into Japan than Iraq--and we dropped nukes on Japan!

It is a matter of opinion. Slavery is just easier to measure. Of course I agree slavery was worse, but that's pretty far from the point I was trying to make- that the worst intentions of major slaveholders are not the sum and whole of the South. You seem to suggest (and if this is not so, please stop me) that the majority who did not own slaves were simply pawns to the few who did, and any loyalty to the Confederacy was misplaced on that basis. Perhaps, but I do not see why this same logic could not easily be applied to northern industrialists. What did the average New York conscript care about the Confederacy and war profits? And even if the Southerners were only pawns, so what? They were also a people with an identity and the will for self rule.

I did not mention the post-war period. But why do you stop the buck at John Wilkes Booth? No war, no Reconstruction. No doubt post-war problems could have been avoided through better management, but that is putting the cart before the horse.

EDIT: I would like to add, I hope you don't think my views are born of ignorance. I went to public school and I've ridden the waves of public perception. I held a view similar to yours most of my life. It is only in the past few years I have been introduced to sensational omissions and primary sources that were not in my text books.

EDIT EDIT: Also, in the case of Japan, I think there is an important difference between limited occupation and total annexation.

 

[Shapsters]

Noithing like a good ol Escapist history lesson!! I shall now call them Boneheads from now on, for one thing out of respect for original skinheads, and because it sounds funnier.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Cheeze_Pavilion, I don't agree with your interpretation, and I see you won't agree with my own. I would like to end this conversation with mutual respect.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I already knew about SHARPs I find them to be an interesting group. Unfortunately they are overshadowed by the Boneheads and most likely always will be thanks to ignorance in Modern Society. I enjoy the skinhead style and music I especially love Oi! I would probably wear the style if it wasn't for all the bullshit you would get from people about it which would just end up with me getting into more fights.