Skyrim Features "Perk" Trees Instead of Weapons Skills

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

So I am meant to hunt dragons without a big f**k-off spear? Ok...

 

[ponderus]

1. The one-handed weapons in the game work the same way. They will not put in weapons that don't make sense in the game. We are in Skyrim, why would they have nunchucks there? Far as I know, that weapon has never been in any Elder Scrolls game. One-handed weapons will most likely include swords, daggers, shortswords, axes and maces. All which you can handle in the same way. Sure, some of them are better at stabbing, while some are better at swinging. But you do handle them mostly the same. The perk system then simulates you getting better with one weapon in particular.
2. Exactly. Which is why that skill progression system is still in the game. You only choose perks for the weapon(s) you want to focus on as you get better in the skill-tree of one-handed, two-handed etc.
3. The land of the Nords are different from Morrowind and Oblivion. Just the fact that they have regions which will look different speaks volumes about how much they care about not making it "generic" and boring. But seriously, the country is what it is. I don't want them to throw in something there to make it more mysterious like Morrowind just for the sake of making it mysterious. I hope they make the Land of the Nords. Period.

Okay. I think you missed my point here.
To reiterate.
1) Fine. nunchucks aren't in the game. It was an example. A dagger plays completely different than a mace. Which plays different than a shortsword. Which plays different from a longsword. Face it. With a mace, you want big, heavy strokes. With a dagger, you want short, quick thrusts. Go ahead. Take a try. Take a butter knife and see how it compares to wielding a rubber mallet. Right. Different
2) See argument above for the differences in skill involved.
3) You totally missed the point here. Yes, Cyrodil looked different from Morrowind, which looked different from Hammerfel, which looked different than High Rock etc... My point is, I don't want it to play like those games. Morrowind's mystery was not really that mysterious. It simply put you in the shoes of the Nerevar reborn. That's not much different from the Dragonborn. We're already getting a new land with a new mythos, which is great. It's just part of what makes the Elder Scrolls series so awesome. All different factions with their own beliefs, and you get to experience them all. It will be Nord country, but you're going to have to put up with the "mystery" of the Akaviri

 

[Nixzilla]

i heard somewhere you can double weild 1 handed weapons if you can do that i will be happy

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

No spears? Well, that's my Dragoon character out the window.

Indeed, I was thinking they'd be able to pull off using spears but you'd get perks the more you use them. You'd start off using both hands for a spear, then get "Lancer" skills to be able to wield a spear in one hand and a shield (and ONLY a shield) in the other, with perhaps a negative damage and block modifier for being unfamiliar with using both at once, and then gain some "Dragoon" perks where the player gains perks for having a spear, a shield and wearing all of a certain weight class of armor and/or could use some fancy spear-only moves like something where you can swing your spear in a full, frontal radius doing light damage but knocking down non-ghost like entities and having the ability to have more accurate attacks at the cost of damage reduction.

Dammit, now I wanna go back and play Legend of Dragoon again...

 

[LitleWaffle]

I still can't decide between pure mage or assassin with daggers.... =/

Now I REEAAALY want to play Skyrim!

Guess Oblivion will do...

 

[OceanRunner]

Every announcement gives me a new reason to love this game.

 

[Droppa Deuce]

DROP

A

DEUCE!

I'm making my hunked out Redguard (Barodarick) a master of dual axes.

He'll always be naked too, save for a hat.

P.S. Are cloaks in Skyrim?

Hooded cloaks ftw.

 

[Windex CleansPuppies]

I always liked the way skills leveled up in the Elder Scrolls, cause it actually made sense. If anything this seems like an improvement to me. Now all i need is the ability to bash with dual shields and i'm set.

Hardest.

Character.

To damage.

EVER.

 

[Deh Zebra]

Nice change of pace with the skill trees, can't wait!

 

[darthricardo]

Question: How does unarmed fit in to this?

Since when is unarmed ever, ever feasible?

 

[Valiard]

Question: How does unarmed fit in to this?

Since when is unarmed ever, ever feasible?

I dunno one of the things ive always wanted to do in morrowind is to summon a nasty pair of fuck off gauntlets and beat people with them...i mean you can do it in game but it dosent seem to have any effect in HtH damage at all not even mild blunt.....i mean enchanted Icy/Shocking gauntlets can you say Falcon Punch?

 

[Doug]

Question: How does unarmed fit in to this?

I second this question.

I would think that you could specialise in types of unarmed combat - i.e. super rapid punching vs slow but powerful hits. Just a guess.

Edit: Also, I'm really looking forward to Skyrim now - it sounds like they've taken the best bits from Fallout and really thought about how to apply them better to their games. That and we get to see how the world of the Elder Scrolls has changed since Oblivion.

 

[k-ossuburb]

Happy Harry demonstrates my opinion on this much better than I ever could.

 

[remmus]

quite funny how change can invoke so much overreaction

So far nothing has directly been said to suggest the "you use it, you get better at it" system has been removed, just that skills have been streamlined.

 

[Feralbreed]

A spear is one of the oldest weapons in the history of mankind, and they're leaving it out? Insanity.

It was stupid even in Oblivion that guards used swords instead of spears, lances or poleaxes.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Okay. I think you missed my point here.
To reiterate.
1) Fine. nunchucks aren't in the game. It was an example. A dagger plays completely different than a mace. Which plays different than a shortsword. Which plays different from a longsword. Face it. With a mace, you want big, heavy strokes. With a dagger, you want short, quick thrusts. Go ahead. Take a try. Take a butter knife and see how it compares to wielding a rubber mallet. Right. Different

So then, would you like separate skills for:
longsword
saber
rapier
mace
maul(or warhammer, or whatever they feel like calling a giant fantasy whackamole mallet)
axe
bigger axe
spear(if they existed)
any other polearms(if spears existed)
katana
nodachi(or daikatana in TES lore)
dagger
shortsword
staff
bow
throwing weapons(if they existed)

all of which must be raised independently, since they all handle differently? If the answer is yes, then I'm afraid I have to laugh at the absurdity of that request. If the answer is no, then I still have to laugh because now you're claiming that your arbitrary abstract grouping method is superior to Bethesda'a arbitrary abstract grouping method.

Mount & Blade showed that 1-handed and 2-handed works just fine for most weapons, and Bethesda is even going one further by allowing specialization by way of perks. That actually makes more sense to me than a long list of unrelated skills. Go ahead, give it a try. Practice daily with a sword (or a similar length piece of rattan for the SCA) until you get good enough to win some tournaments. Then go find an axe and see if you can figure out what to do with it with no instruction. Chances are that you will be able to land some hits no problem, even if you aren't as good as you would be with the weapon you normally use. The opponent hasn't changed, you are still generally going to be aiming for the same areas, and you still have the same range of motion with your arm. The main differences involve balance, striking area, and what happens when you actually hit.

Sure, this changes when you compare extremes. A dagger is going to handle much differently than a mace. But my belief is that the skill list isn't the place to show that difference in a game like the TES series. Gameplay is, especially once you get to the more action oriented Oblivion. You don't need a skill that says that a dagger doesn't handle like a mace. You can actually make a dagger handle differently than a mace. Combine that with perks that make a difference stats-wise, and you have a nice balance of character and player skill portraying your character's combat style.

 

[VanityGirl]

This will honestly either make the game very interesting, or it will make the game feel cluttered.

 

[Bek359]

Question: How does unarmed fit in to this?

Since when is unarmed ever, ever feasible?

Well, the thing with unarmed is that it also reduces an enemy's Fatigue, and can get it below zero. When that happens, the opponent collapses like a ragdoll and won't get up until they are at positive Fatigue again. With that in mind, it doesn't really become useful until rather high levels. It's like Paralysis, but nothing is immune to it, other than ghosts and wraiths, which can't be punched.

 

[thebassist]

Reminds me of Mount&Blade. You level up 1-handed, 2-handed, Bows, Crossbows, and Polearms separately. Leveling up with a 1 handed sword will increase your skill with a 1 handed mace.

My dream of an Elder Scrolls with M&B's combat engine may be getting closer to being a reality.

Speaking of M&B, I'm dreaming of an Elder Scrolls where you can command an army like you can in M&B.

Also, archery in Skyrim has been said to be completely rebooted since oblivion. Arrows now do WAY more damage, but are also far more scarce than in oblivion. No more going into a fight packed with 50 arrows, but one to the head will be enough. Archery is also more "brutal". Of you shoot someone in the arm, you'll hear the thud and their arm will swing back from the force. Skyrim is really focusing on making fights more brutal so it feels more like you're really ending a life, instead of just taking down goblin.

 

[darthricardo]

Question: How does unarmed fit in to this?

Since when is unarmed ever, ever feasible?

Well, the thing with unarmed is that it also reduces an enemy's Fatigue, and can get it below zero. When that happens, the opponent collapses like a ragdoll and won't get up until they are at positive Fatigue again. With that in mind, it doesn't really become useful until rather high levels. It's like Paralysis, but nothing is immune to it, other than ghosts and wraiths, which can't be punched.

Huh, I didn't know that. Still, punching someone until they eventually get tired doesn't seem to work as well as, say, chopping them apart with weapons or blasting with magic. I don't know, maybe that's just the way my mind works. There would have to be some pretty amazing advantages to fighting unarmed to make it work for me.