Skyrim may be irreparably broken on PS3

[Freaky Lou]

As an Xbox 360 fanboy, I think this is hilarious.

But then I think off the fact that this is Skyrim we're talking about, and then I feel sad for those people that can't play this awesome game and enjoy it as much.

I feel for you, poor Skyrim on PS3 players <3

I'm playing it on PS3 and the lag wasn't that bad even at launch (except in certain patches of Whiterun.) It did get crippling for my brother as he pushed level 50...but after the patch, it's been running pretty smoothly.

 

[Calico93]

Ive heard about this, and im a PS3 player.
Im still going to play it regardless. But I do hope bethesda can fix it, or at least fix it for Fallout 4.

 

[Atmos Duality]

If you don't interact with objects lying around, will they take up less save data?

I don't own Skyrim, so this is a shot in the dark.
But if it's like Oblivion and Morrowind, then yes.

"Objects lying around" in the open, is what I've been calling "Static objects".
They're objects that have been placed by the developers, and will be present in that location for every game. If you interact with them, the game will note their position/status has changed, and will note as such in your save file.

"Dynamic items", in contrast, are generated at random, and don't exist until certain conditions are met (if the game generates a group of bandits; all of their equipment and loot are considered dynamic items). Dynamic items will exist in your save file for as long as they exist in the game world. So if you sell/consume these, your save file size SHOULD decrease.

(Fiddling around with Oblivion and Morrowind .esms also shows that the status of some special items; mostly quest-specific items, are ALWAYS in your save file. These however, make up a tiny number of the items a player is likely to interact with in normal play.)

Only problem with PC is that from what I've heard, PS3 is capped at 2GB RAM, so it doesn't matter how good a PC you have, it will at maximum only outlast the 360 by a factor of 4. It'll last you a long time, but not infinitely. However, the benefit of playing a TES game on the PC is that any problem, even this, will be modded. Maybe someone will find a way to simply delete a whole bunch of objects lying around, just to get rid of them from the memory. Wouldn't that be a good emergency solution for the PS3?

It depends on how much of the Cell-system's RAM actually goes towards the game, and not video or other things.
I'm not familiar with the specific architectures of the PS3 or 360 (I own neither), but I can say that a PC with a decent discrete video card (which essentially acts as a second reservoir of RAM even against the regular 32-bit limitation) should have no significant problems with framerate due to save file size alone for a long time.

Deleting extraneous and unnecessary static objects would lower the potential burden for the PS3, but it's a temporary solution at best, since the player is inevitably going to accumulate a larger save file size through play.
Nevermind that this also hurts the immersion. For example, you can potentially save some grief by deleting most of the forks and spoons in the world, but the houses will look more bare.

 

[Iwata]

Couldn't you just, I don't know, DELETE the old save files?

Speaking from personal experience, deleting all my save files except one on New Vegas did help with the problem, but not by much, and not for long.

They never fixed it for New Vegas, and I doubt they'll work hard to fix it for Skyrim. Which is a shame, because I sure as hell won't buy it like this. I loved New Vegas, so having it become progressively more unplayable the more time and effort I put into it was all the more frustrating.

 

[Gitty101]

So glad I got it for the PC. Encountered no issues of any kind so far. Shame that the console users are having so many problems...

 

[Right Hook]

I don't understand why they didn't just make it so once you hit a certain size, earlier things in the game that aren't still important, like were you sold something or were you dropped an iron dagger, don't just reset themselves. Nobody would care or even remember doing these things and it would prevent files from getting to big, at least in theory.

I played New Vegas FOREVER on the 360 and didn't encounter anything like this, so I'm not worried about Skyrim.

 

[GeorgW]

If you don't interact with objects lying around, will they take up less save data?

I don't own Skyrim, so this is a shot in the dark.
But if it's like Oblivion and Morrowind, then yes.

"Objects lying around" in the open, is what I've been calling "Static objects".
They're objects that have been placed by the developers, and will be present in that location for every game. If you interact with them, the game will note their position/status has changed, and will note as such in your save file.

"Dynamic items", in contrast, are generated at random, and don't exist until certain conditions are met (if the game generates a group of bandits; all of their equipment and loot are considered dynamic items). Dynamic items will exist in your save file for as long as they exist in the game world. So if you sell/consume these, your save file size SHOULD decrease.

(Fiddling around with Oblivion and Morrowind .esms also shows that the status of some special items; mostly quest-specific items, are ALWAYS in your save file. These however, make up a tiny number of the items a player is likely to interact with in normal play.)

Only problem with PC is that from what I've heard, PS3 is capped at 2GB RAM, so it doesn't matter how good a PC you have, it will at maximum only outlast the 360 by a factor of 4. It'll last you a long time, but not infinitely. However, the benefit of playing a TES game on the PC is that any problem, even this, will be modded. Maybe someone will find a way to simply delete a whole bunch of objects lying around, just to get rid of them from the memory. Wouldn't that be a good emergency solution for the PS3?

It depends on how much of the Cell-system's RAM actually goes towards the game, and not video or other things.
I'm not familiar with the specific architectures of the PS3 or 360 (I own neither), but I can say that a PC with a decent discrete video card (which essentially acts as a second reservoir of RAM even against the regular 32-bit limitation) should have no significant problems with framerate due to save file size alone for a long time.

Deleting extraneous and unnecessary static objects would lower the potential burden for the PS3, but it's a temporary solution at best, since the player is inevitably going to accumulate a larger save file size through play.
Nevermind that this also hurts the immersion. For example, you can potentially save some grief by deleting most of the forks and spoons in the world, but the houses will look more bare.

Yeah, PC shouldn't be a problem for a while. All I'm saying is that I know people that have played Oblivion and Morrowind for over 2000 hours, and I'm sure there are people out there that will reach 5000 hours in Skyrim. Wouldn't their save files get too big, or is there just not enough stuff in the world?

And the solution I had in mind was just that, deleting all the utensils and crap like that. Sure it would break some immersion, but at least it'd make the game playable. It's a last minute solution, but it's a solution.

 

[jboking]

It funny to see the bullshit Sony pulled to make their console appear more powerful is coming around to bite its users in the ass. Dividing up RAM for separate tasks was a horrible idea in 2006, and now in 2011 its actually degrading game performance.

You realize Bethesda's series of games are the only ones having major problems, right? It's not every game released for the PS3. You are coming off a bit fanboyish. Fanboyish in the bad way.

And for all the people claiming that it qualifies for class action lawsuits, it would be like suing Crytek for Crysis not working perfectly on a PC with 1 gb of RAM. Sure it can technically run it, but the frame-rate would be abysmal, the loading screens would take forever and you would face glitches galore. All the streamlining and patches wont change the fact that the PS3 simply isn't capable of meeting the hardware requirements past "absolute minimum."

Your analogy is flawed on the basis of what's known as the "console promise." To hone in your analogy: Imagine Crytek made a version of Crysis specifically for the a line of PC's with just 1gb of RAM, they didn't explain ahead of time that it wouldn't work as well as other versions, and then the game began to degrade into an unplayable state over time. In that case, a class action lawsuit might be advisable. At the very least, a refund should be offered.

 

[poleboy]

Wait, I thought Bethesda designed their games for consoles now, then made crappy PC ports of them? And you're telling me the PC port is actually working better than the PS3 version? (okay, I know it was designed for Xbox but still...)

This is hilarious (if you didn't buy it for PS3)

 

[GonzoGamer]

Welcome to our world (pc gamers). We have to deal with poorly optimized games and crap console ports. Shame for ps3 owners though.

At least with the PC, one has the modders working tirelessly to optimize and make free dlc.
On the console, you?re pretty much at the mercy of the publisher.

Ive heard about this, and im a PS3 player.
Im still going to play it regardless. But I do hope bethesda can fix it, or at least fix it for Fallout 4.

I don?t even see that happening. These are all the same problems we saw in Fallout 3 & New Vegas and people still ran out and pre-ordered Skyrim anyway...even though (lets face it) most of us assumed it would have the same problems. If tons of people are going to buy the broken crap anyway, why would they bother improving it.

After this mess, I'm done with Bethesda. Maybe I'll be their games used from now on, but one thing is for sure: they will never see another penny from me. I'll buy from devs that can actually design a game properly and one that cares about its consumers.

Yea. This is what I said after trying to play New Vegas and I stood by it.
If enough people actually do this and sales of their next game suffer from it, the game that they come out with after their next game might be playable...eventually.
But gamers are not only pushovers, they're for the most part suckers and will swallow whatever cock & bull story Bethesda comes up with. And just like with Skyrim I'm sure we'll hear plenty about a new engine or some new file system that's they say will fix all the problems. And even though you and I might correctly assume they're full of shit, not enough people will to make any difference.

 

[GeorgW]

If you don't interact with objects lying around, will they take up less save data?

I don't own Skyrim, so this is a shot in the dark.
But if it's like Oblivion and Morrowind, then yes.

"Objects lying around" in the open, is what I've been calling "Static objects".
They're objects that have been placed by the developers, and will be present in that location for every game. If you interact with them, the game will note their position/status has changed, and will note as such in your save file.

"Dynamic items", in contrast, are generated at random, and don't exist until certain conditions are met (if the game generates a group of bandits; all of their equipment and loot are considered dynamic items). Dynamic items will exist in your save file for as long as they exist in the game world. So if you sell/consume these, your save file size SHOULD decrease.

(Fiddling around with Oblivion and Morrowind .esms also shows that the status of some special items; mostly quest-specific items, are ALWAYS in your save file. These however, make up a tiny number of the items a player is likely to interact with in normal play.)

Only problem with PC is that from what I've heard, PS3 is capped at 2GB RAM, so it doesn't matter how good a PC you have, it will at maximum only outlast the 360 by a factor of 4. It'll last you a long time, but not infinitely. However, the benefit of playing a TES game on the PC is that any problem, even this, will be modded. Maybe someone will find a way to simply delete a whole bunch of objects lying around, just to get rid of them from the memory. Wouldn't that be a good emergency solution for the PS3?

It depends on how much of the Cell-system's RAM actually goes towards the game, and not video or other things.
I'm not familiar with the specific architectures of the PS3 or 360 (I own neither), but I can say that a PC with a decent discrete video card (which essentially acts as a second reservoir of RAM even against the regular 32-bit limitation) should have no significant problems with framerate due to save file size alone for a long time.

Deleting extraneous and unnecessary static objects would lower the potential burden for the PS3, but it's a temporary solution at best, since the player is inevitably going to accumulate a larger save file size through play.
Nevermind that this also hurts the immersion. For example, you can potentially save some grief by deleting most of the forks and spoons in the world, but the houses will look more bare.

I just learned 2 things. After I went back to a location I previously visited, all those static items that I had previously stole were reset. The second thing is that someone on the forums posted that after waiting 30 days his save file reset a bunch of things and more than halved his save file in size, thusly helping his lag greatly. Is this a solution, and how does this work with your theory?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I just learned 2 things. After I went back to a location I previously visited, all those static items that I had previously stole were reset. The second thing is that someone on the forums posted that after waiting 30 days his save file reset a bunch of things and more than halved his save file in size, thusly helping his lag greatly. Is this a solution, and how does this work with your theory?

Pretty much this I have had plenty of things reset in my game.

I think this automatic reset function isn't working properly on the PS3 and that's what they are attempting to fix.

I don't think it's unfixable.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I just learned 2 things. After I went back to a location I previously visited, all those static items that I had previously stole were reset. The second thing is that someone on the forums posted that after waiting 30 days his save file reset a bunch of things and more than halved his save file in size, thusly helping his lag greatly. Is this a solution, and how does this work with your theory?

Hmm. Good finds.
This works exactly along the lines of my original theory; proving it in fact.
Skyrim has a "cleanup" mechanism built into it. That much is different from Morrowind and Oblivion.

In Morrowind, the chests and shop inventories would be completely restocked after anywhere between 1 in-game week up to a month (depending on location). It appears that was extended to static items in Skyrim, leading me to believe that rooms will just revert to their defaults (unlike your house, fortunately, or unfortunately; depending).

So, barring some bizarre fixation on collecting (and piling up) cups, forks, or other common knicknacks, reducing your overall stock of junk and waiting 30 days in-game should help the problem at least somewhat.

 

[GeorgW]

I just learned 2 things. After I went back to a location I previously visited, all those static items that I had previously stole were reset. The second thing is that someone on the forums posted that after waiting 30 days his save file reset a bunch of things and more than halved his save file in size, thusly helping his lag greatly. Is this a solution, and how does this work with your theory?

Hmm. Good finds.
This works exactly along the lines of my original theory; proving it in fact.
Skyrim has a "cleanup" mechanism built into it. That much is different from Morrowind and Oblivion.

In Morrowind, the chests and shop inventories would be completely restocked after anywhere between 1 in-game week up to a month (depending on location). It appears that was extended to static items in Skyrim, leading me to believe that rooms will just revert to their defaults (unlike your house, fortunately, or unfortunately; depending).

So, barring some bizarre fixation on collecting (and piling up) cups, forks, or other common knicknacks, reducing your overall stock of junk and waiting 30 days in-game should help the problem at least somewhat.

So, we've found a fix, then? If only temporary?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

snip

I was late to the party and got a 360 a few years late. Oblivion was my first game on it. I loved it. It was bug free (of course, they had had two years to fix it by that point but I didn't know that at the time). I gave them the benefit of the doubt on Skyrim. They ruined it. Never again.

 

[Atmos Duality]

So, we've found a fix, then? If only temporary?

Perhaps. It needs a bit of testing to confirm, but it certainly can't hurt at this point.
Simple to test, really. Just wait around for 30 in-game days, save, reload game and see if the lag has let up at all.

Yea. This is what I said after trying to play New Vegas and I stood by it.
If enough people actually do this and sales of their next game suffer from it, the game that they come out with after their next game might be playable...eventually.

Since I haven't tortured enough metaphors today...

The PC crowd for The Elder Scrolls series seems to behave like those domestic abuse victims you see on Cops. They put up with the game's horrific and buggy coding, endure hours of mental strain and abuse just to get the thing to work, and yet they tirelessly try to service the game because they love it.

Poor metaphors aside, I stopped buying Bethesda titles when I realized I would simply be doomed to as much time acting like (or seeking) tech support as I would playing the bloody game.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

So, we've found a fix, then? If only temporary?

Perhaps. It needs a bit of testing to confirm, but it certainly can't hurt at this point.
Simple to test, really. Just wait around for 30 in-game days, save, reload game and see if the lag has let up at all.

It sort of works for a while. The posters on the Bethesda forums already tried it. It didn't really work too well for me.

 

[Epona]

Is it necessary to save the position of every spec of dust in the game world? If this breaks the game for PS3 owners in the long run, then a solution would be not to save everything. But Bethesda would have to be careful as that might get exploited.

Why do you care if someone exploits something in a single player game?

 

[4RM3D]

Is it necessary to save the position of every spec of dust in the game world? If this breaks the game for PS3 owners in the long run, then a solution would be not to save everything. But Bethesda would have to be careful as that might get exploited.

Why do you care if someone exploits something in a single player game?

I don't. Just saying that it would be sloppy to fix one mistake only to replace it with another. But it the end it doesn't matter for me. I am playing Skyrim on the PC.