Skyrim: Stormcloak or Empire?
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Basically, the options are
Empire: Assholes who tried to kill me at the begining, ruled by the Thalmor who will kill me for worshipping the wrong god.
Rebellion: Racist assholes
It just made more sense to me to side with the Stormcloaks, because, as racist as they are, Ulfric doesn't actually sanction the wholesale slaughter of all non-Nords, while the Empire made Talos worship punishable by death, on top of that, my character is a Nord, so it made more sense to side with the group of assholes that didn't have anything against me. Also, yeah, I still have a bit of a grudge against the Empire for trying to execute me at the beginning.
Empire: Assholes who tried to kill me at the begining, ruled by the Thalmor who will kill me for worshipping the wrong god.
Rebellion: Racist assholes
It just made more sense to me to side with the Stormcloaks, because, as racist as they are, Ulfric doesn't actually sanction the wholesale slaughter of all non-Nords, while the Empire made Talos worship punishable by death, on top of that, my character is a Nord, so it made more sense to side with the group of assholes that didn't have anything against me. Also, yeah, I still have a bit of a grudge against the Empire for trying to execute me at the beginning.
It's not as simple as you make it seem. Yes, the Stormcloaks are Nazi-ish, but they aren't as bad as the actual Nazis - keep in mind, Ulfric hasn't actually supported the slaughter of all non-Nords, and as bad as some of his followers can be, it still isn't on that level. Meanwhile the Empire DOES perform full scale slaughter of all Talos worshippers that they can find.Stekepanne5 said:
So basically, you have Nazi-ish versus full-blown Spanish Inquisition. And frankly, the way I see it, as horrible as both sides are, the Stormcloaks are slightly less evil.
As I see it, you have to side with one, because a divided Skyrim doesn't benefit the Empire or the Nords, it only benefits the Thalmor Dominion (who, I think we can agree, are worse than either side).
I just wouldn't choose the faction who tried to kill me at the start of the game.Mimsofthedawg said:But they're different types of pricks.legion431 said:I find it funny that both factions in the game are pricks.Mimsofthedawg said:You really think that the Nords, only being able to pull their pitiful resources from a land ravaged by dragons and a civil war, ran by a corrupt bigot of a king, who has no trading partners because they are now hostile enemies, etc.?legion431 said:
One of the reasons why I went with the empire is because it's an open secret that that Thalmor and Empire plan on fighting another war with eachother, so I chose the Empire because then you have the strength of AT LEAST three provinces going against the strength of just TWO.
OP: I chose the Empire... or will... when I finish finals and have time to play again.
One side is the "I don't really care about the people of this land, I'm here doing my duty."
the other side is the "I want everyone who isn't a Nord to burn in Oblivion!" Kind of prick.
In a recent article on the Escapist, Ulfric was described as being eerily similar to the Nazi's, who were also a racist group of empire building maniacs who used their traditional Germanic and Nordic backgrounds to promote their racial superiority.
So which "prick" is honestly worse?
I'm still desperately trying to make a decision. I'm looking specifically at the history of Tamriel since the Oblivion Crisis and the consequences both sides could have on its future, and an anthropological perspective on both sides.
Historically, both sides could go either way; the Imperials succeeding would suppress any force Skyrim could have offered to drive back the Aldmeri Dominion, but also would sever ties with Skyrim and would break up the Empire further, leaving no strong allies on their side (other than High Rock, which would probably end up siding with Hammerfell and Skyrim (considering its location) due to the Imperials' efforts to maintain peace with Summerset Isle stirring bad blood). A Stormcloak victory could potentially be the leverage needed to form a strong force to defeat the Aldmeri, however Skyrim and Cyrodiil would no longer be allies, and the Aldmeri would only benefit from their feud since the Empire would be effectively weakened and therefore easier to control.
Such is the nature of war that there are good and bad effects from a victory or loss.
From an anthropological perspective, the Imperials are like colonists; enforcing their own laws, customs and religion over another culture, and the Thalmor use their treaty to kill off any who go against the changes. The Nords are renown for their strong upholding of history, honour and their customs; they would hardly take any sort of other culture tarnishing their beliefs. They have the full right to pull out of the original alliance with the Empire if they believe they are not being given any power or say, and especially for the sake of preserving their culture. The Imperials, however, are not doing this out of spite; the White-Gold Concordant is signed out of necessity, and Skyrim is a part of the Empire, and should follow its agreed laws.
Remember also that both the Thalmor and the Nords are very racist; the elves believe mer is superior (hence their wanting Talos worship removed, since a man is made as great as their gods) and the Nords are, understandably, furious at the elves' actions. While neither is right to wholeheartedly believe their superiority to all others, their reaction is understandable and almost natural.
This isn't a question of Imperials vs Nords, Empire vs Skyrim - this is a question of the Empire vs the Aldmeri Dominion.
Clear as mud? Was that no help whatsoever? Good - you see why I'm having so much trouble choosing between the two.
Historically, both sides could go either way; the Imperials succeeding would suppress any force Skyrim could have offered to drive back the Aldmeri Dominion, but also would sever ties with Skyrim and would break up the Empire further, leaving no strong allies on their side (other than High Rock, which would probably end up siding with Hammerfell and Skyrim (considering its location) due to the Imperials' efforts to maintain peace with Summerset Isle stirring bad blood). A Stormcloak victory could potentially be the leverage needed to form a strong force to defeat the Aldmeri, however Skyrim and Cyrodiil would no longer be allies, and the Aldmeri would only benefit from their feud since the Empire would be effectively weakened and therefore easier to control.
Such is the nature of war that there are good and bad effects from a victory or loss.
From an anthropological perspective, the Imperials are like colonists; enforcing their own laws, customs and religion over another culture, and the Thalmor use their treaty to kill off any who go against the changes. The Nords are renown for their strong upholding of history, honour and their customs; they would hardly take any sort of other culture tarnishing their beliefs. They have the full right to pull out of the original alliance with the Empire if they believe they are not being given any power or say, and especially for the sake of preserving their culture. The Imperials, however, are not doing this out of spite; the White-Gold Concordant is signed out of necessity, and Skyrim is a part of the Empire, and should follow its agreed laws.
Remember also that both the Thalmor and the Nords are very racist; the elves believe mer is superior (hence their wanting Talos worship removed, since a man is made as great as their gods) and the Nords are, understandably, furious at the elves' actions. While neither is right to wholeheartedly believe their superiority to all others, their reaction is understandable and almost natural.
This isn't a question of Imperials vs Nords, Empire vs Skyrim - this is a question of the Empire vs the Aldmeri Dominion.
Clear as mud? Was that no help whatsoever? Good - you see why I'm having so much trouble choosing between the two.
People keep bringing up the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric as reason to hate him and the Stormcloaks, but I seriously wonder how much attention those people were paying to were they got that. They used very polite language to describe what happened, but it's really quite clear that what actually happened is:
If either side wins it's a blow against the Thalmor, as they would both stop diverting resources to a prolonged war if that were to happen, and the Thalmor position is not as strong as they want everyone to believe since they aren't exactly making allies out of the regions they conquer. Maintaining their grip over those places is in fact diverting their own resources.
I'm not quite certain why anyone would think any of that was particularly damning of Ulfric. Certainly he's not perfect, but we already knew that. I don't see anything in that dossier as being nearly as bad as his general racism, and I simply don't see that as being bad enough to justify siding with a dying empire whose death flails are hurting the people it's supposed to be protecting.
During the war between the Thalmor and the Empire, Ulfric was captured and tortured over an extended period. He actually held out long enough that by the time he broke and told them anything the information he gave them was useless. The Thalmor led him to believe that it wasn't however, and they managed to use his guilt and fear that anyone might find out to manipulate him for a while. He eventually told them to go stuff it though. They are considering the possibility of outright blackmail, but it might not work and would certainly end any potential usefulness he might have to them, so they're only considering it as a last resort. Otherwise they're simply indirectly manipulating the war to maintain a stalemate, as that is what is best for them.
I'm not quite certain why anyone would think any of that was particularly damning of Ulfric. Certainly he's not perfect, but we already knew that. I don't see anything in that dossier as being nearly as bad as his general racism, and I simply don't see that as being bad enough to justify siding with a dying empire whose death flails are hurting the people it's supposed to be protecting.
Why would I want to side with either? Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are a bunch of xenophobic pricks not worthy of calling themselves Nords.
A true Nord welcomes the opportunity to learn new things, and to pit themselves against uncertain odds. Ulfric is just afraid, like a little child. Pathetic.
And the Empire, they're just a bunch of pansies bowing to their Thalmor overlords.
Grow a spine, you gutless cowards.
Also they're an empire, and empires are always evil. No exceptions.
No... They can both go to hell. I'll pick my own side. The only one deserving the title of High King is the Dragonborn.
In fact, I should be Emperor of all of Tamriel. I am the most fit for the job, seeing as how I'm better than everyone else combined.
A true Nord welcomes the opportunity to learn new things, and to pit themselves against uncertain odds. Ulfric is just afraid, like a little child. Pathetic.
And the Empire, they're just a bunch of pansies bowing to their Thalmor overlords.
Grow a spine, you gutless cowards.
Also they're an empire, and empires are always evil. No exceptions.
No... They can both go to hell. I'll pick my own side. The only one deserving the title of High King is the Dragonborn.
In fact, I should be Emperor of all of Tamriel. I am the most fit for the job, seeing as how I'm better than everyone else combined.
I joined the Stormcloaks with one of my characters for the lulz. I have really grown to hate those guys for the sole reason that Ulfric treats you like shit. (To a degree worse than Tullius)
However I hate the Thalmor so much that whenever I see them wandering outside I slaughter them mercilessly.
So the best compromise was to join the Legion cause they have nice stuff, and kill Thalmor when no one is looking. C:
However I hate the Thalmor so much that whenever I see them wandering outside I slaughter them mercilessly.
So the best compromise was to join the Legion cause they have nice stuff, and kill Thalmor when no one is looking. C:
Exactly what I thought. I rocked on up to Windhelm, listened to some Elves complain, talked to Ulfric then went straight to Solitude to join the Empire.DutchAssassin8 said:
Him and his bloody Galmar Stonefist... grumble. At least the Empire aren't dicks, even if they are selling out to the High Elves.
Usually a live and let live policy with the exception of Thalmor agents and the occasional psychopathic killing-spree, but as to a side to choose, the empire, reasons being firstly the possibility to seriously mess up thalmor agendas and secondly "Under one sky"
Correction they are selling out to THE THALMOR (the genocidal high elves) rather than suffering heavy losses or extermination. The Empire hates the Thalmor like everyone else but is mature enough to realize that literal hero worship isn't worth the Thalmor killing everyone.ZedFish said:
I hate how polar good vs evil the sides become if you decide to background check the sides a little and the contrast just becomes huge as you delve further. But I love the transition period of how you feel toward the factions as details emerge.