Skyrim truly looks outdated and average

[Sir Prize]

Most open-world games tend to have slightly dumb AI, mainly because it's probably near impossible to have it able to deal with any situation. It's alos very in the player's face because it's single-player.

 

[stormcrow5]

From what i herd about that demo, For 1 it was scripted for the gameplay and 2 its the alpha gameplay from like 3-4 months ago when they first revealed it and it dosent help the guy was playing it in god mode for the gameplay.

 

[Mouse_Crouse]

... watch part 3, about 1:17, Mr Giant looms toward the player, swinging his axe (which barely makes the player move when hit) and is then picked up by a passing dragon, and dropped to his embarassing death, watch how the giant just freezes as he is falling (very slowly) to his death, not rotating, not flipping, not even cursing the dragon as he is pulled by the unrealistic gravity of the oh so wonderful Bethesda's Creation engine, another enemy lost in the midst of Bethesda's bugs.

I'll address this one as it seemed the most notable to me. While it is true that he doesn't flip or tumble the way you would expect, he is indeed in a ragdoll state, his legs do get pulled slightly due to the movement. I will agree that it seems like he is picked up in a rigid state and then flung in the same position. And it does look a bit odd. However it's not enough to pull me out of the action. Do I wish it was better, sure. But I'm not worried about it. As for the giant not tossing you all around with his strikes. yes, it would be more realistic for you to go flying back 40 feet and have to pick yourself off the ground each time. However that would get old very quickly. I for one would hate a 'realistic' fight against a club wielding giant. Your character is supposed to feel important and strong. If Thor or the Hulk were tossed around as much, they wouldn't appear as strong either. to me it's more about balance of gameplay and realism. The giant falling is not right, to be fair. Could be better for sure, but it dosen't distract me.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Yeah, it probably won't be a huge leap forward by any means. New Vegas, anyone? That being said, I love New Vegas. And Oblivion, for that matter. Elder Scrolls/Fallout is just that good. It really is sad that they don't improve much, but Bethesda's formula is good enough in the first place that people will stay play the hell out of it. It'll still be better, in the opinions of many, than anything else this year.

I though New vegas was more of a leap forward than Fallout 3... Story wise, gameplay wise, and balance wise (well, if you consider the fact that New Vegas mainly included things from the earlier games such as damage threshold, then you could say its a step back, but a step back after realise you are about to walk into a dog turd the way you are going). However, it was such a step forward that for many users stability suffered, but you can't really hate someone for trying, thats what CoD fans do.

No but you can blame someone for trying, failing epically, and then charging $60 for it anyway.
I never expect a Bethesda (or any sort of open world game) to be bug free or to have very sharp AI, but they have let some things go to the shelves when it?s painfully obvious that it still needs work.
Hopefully this will buck the trend but I doubt it. I do look forward to exploring Skyrim but I can wait for GOTY and especially the patches: at minimum, I?ll save some money, but if my suspicions are correct, I?ll save some money and a lot of frustration.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Again, if you are looking for better AI... just take a look at the Gothic series or Risen, where both the NPCs had a proper day and night cycle that made sense like 10 years ago aswell as the animals that were hunting each other, running away or attacking in packs when need be and there are dozens of MMOs out there that also do a better job, let me just quote someone from the RPS comments about this, cause he did a good writeup and I'm too lazy to do my own right now http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/09/12/chasing-the-dragon-20-minutes-of-skyrim/

That's Wulf though. The guy makes a career out of ranting about crap like this. And I've played all the same RPG's he has, and he's got some serious rose colored glasses for some of them.

I mean, come on. Champions fucking Online? That game is a canker sore. Ultima VII? As though AI was HARDER to program when things were sprite based and moved on a 2D plane?

AI is NOT good in Bethesda's open world RPGs. It's not really very good anywhere else, either. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is stratifying degrees of crap.

 

[ZeroMachine]

A lot of you guys are being WAY to harsh on the OP... holy crap... anyways, I only have one thing to say that I don't think has been said yet.

Take a very, very, VERY close look at the giant when it's falling. It isn't static. It does have some subtle movement which, in some cases, is more realistic than something flailing around while descending. It drops its weapons, and it's legs and arms move. Basically, the dragon's claws killed it, or it's in shock about the fact that "holy fuck a dragon just picked me up and flung me."

Things don't instantly enter some spin when falling from a great height.

Also, Mr Deathlord or whatever? He didn't break through the wall. He just woke up, like the other undeads you see in the demo. From what was probably some thousand or so year slumber. You'd be a little "whoa..." too.

 

[Vibhor]

Because its *totally unacceptable* that a game *three months away from release* might not be finished yet.

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

Actually it is only 2 months, it comes out Nov 11th, today is the 12th of September. Three months would be Dec.
That said, games are usually going gold by this point or very damn near it, meaning that it is pretty damn near a done game, they are just ironing out a few bugs, dotting their i's and crossing their t's; this isn't a point where they are suddenly going to re-haul the graphics or the engine.
Games require some time to print, package, and distribute across the globe.

The demo he's bashing came out several months ago.

So, you're right, my statement is inaccurate.

It is, in fact, unacceptable that a game *five months* away from release might not yet be finished.

Oh. Wait, no it didn't. Hah! I'm dumb.

... Still, I hadn't seen this yet, thanks for linking it OP!

... Wait, no, yes I had. This is old footage, it just got posted recently.

I am getting flashbacks to duke nukem forever demo. Please stop this stupidity.

 

[Versuvius]

Notice how the guardsman when the dragon bites his torso and flings him careers around with his weapon/shield tumbling uselessly out of his hand? That looked pretty good to me. When you make a point, don't cherry pick examples when examples of the opposite exist too, because yanno, devalues the original point.

 

[ZeroMachine]

These are some of the pettiest complaints I've ever heard.

He smashes through, then stands still for two seconds, also perplexed by the wall in front of him, perhaps the AI is so smart that it is amazed by the visuals you say? I think not.

He just came back from the dead and popped out of his coffin. Maybe he needs a second or two to wake up...

Not only does this skeletal chap have a stupid AI system working against his favour, but he also appears to be some kind of ghost or spirit, the player slashes and stabs with his blade and the guy doesn't seem to move or react at all to this.

Uh, he's an undead zombie. I doubt pain is a big deterrent for him.

not rotating, not flipping, not even cursing the dragon as he is pulled by the unrealistic gravity of the oh so wonderful Bethesda's Creation engine, another enemy lost in the midst of Bethesda's bugs.

He does rotate and flip... the angle the dragon chucks him at is just not very condusive to extensive ragdolling. I saw an hour long demo at Gamescom - trust me, there are ragdoll physics.

D'aw, someone DID beat me to it... ah well.

 

[Mouse_Crouse]

Now watch 3:07, Mr Deathlord is obviously smashing through that wall there, not for fun, but with the sole intention of smashing the said player with his rather large axe.
He smashes through, then stands still for two seconds, also perplexed by the wall in front of him, perhaps the AI is so smart that it is amazed by the visuals you say? I think not.

Went back and watched this one again, because it didn't seem that big the first time. And upon further inspection, he isn't smashing through a wall at all, he is pushing the lid off his coffin. He shoves it off takes a stumble or two forward, stops to get his bearings, and takes off for the attack. I think this actually looks fine now that I view it again.

 

[Gluzzbung]

It doens't look out-dated at all but none of it looks real, it's all just slightly off. That's the least of the issues. Ai= stupid, no tactics or co-operation between the AI's, the comabt is dull and repetitive. The only thing they have added is finishers, "Yeah, nice job everyone, let's just keep copying what assassins creed did (they probably copied someone as well, if you know who, could you tell me thank you)" Also, as a side note, why on Earth haven't they changed the leveling mechanic?

 

[DracoSuave]

Usually people wait till there's at least a demo before that reaction. Plus Skyrim, everyone's been waiting for it for years, you'd think there'd be some leeway granted.

Naw, this is Bethesda. They're highly overrated when it comes to anything involving game engines and visuals. Still shots always look pretty, but the second anyone moves it falls apart pretty bad.

If it doesn't crash.

 

[trsmassive]

... watch part 3, about 1:17, Mr Giant looms toward the player, swinging his axe (which barely makes the player move when hit) and is then picked up by a passing dragon, and dropped to his embarassing death, watch how the giant just freezes as he is falling (very slowly) to his death, not rotating, not flipping, not even cursing the dragon as he is pulled by the unrealistic gravity of the oh so wonderful Bethesda's Creation engine, another enemy lost in the midst of Bethesda's bugs.

I'll address this one as it seemed the most notable to me. While it is true that he doesn't flip or tumble the way you would expect, he is indeed in a ragdoll state, his legs do get pulled slightly due to the movement. I will agree that it seems like he is picked up in a rigid state and then flung in the same position. And it does look a bit odd. However it's not enough to pull me out of the action. Do I wish it was better, sure. But I'm not worried about it. As for the giant not tossing you all around with his strikes. yes, it would be more realistic for you to go flying back 40 feet and have to pick yourself off the ground each time. However that would get old very quickly. I for one would hate a 'realistic' fight against a club wielding giant. Your character is supposed to feel important and strong. If Thor or the Hulk were tossed around as much, they wouldn't appear as strong either. to me it's more about balance of gameplay and realism. The giant falling is not right, to be fair. Could be better for sure, but it dosen't distract me.

I agree, but it would just feel a bit more immersive/fun/challenging if you moved quite a bit more from those giant attacks, players are supposed to be scared of dragons and in my opinion I think giants should pose just as much of a threat with their melee attacks, I mean I get that they are trying to make the dragons seem really powerful but the giants just seem way too weak to me.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

The combat just killed it for me.
You can't block attacks with a sword.

So my plan of a dual dagger wielding rogue are not so good looking now.

You can, it's just not demonstrated in those vids. The blocking mechanic has changed for swords to be a parry that needs to be timed. So you can't hold it out like a shield, but you can parry the enemy which knocks them off balance.

I read it in one of Todds Q&As, I'll try and dig it up.

@OP and the like:

It's a stat based RPG people, not a tactical FPS. AI is about as good as the stats behind it. Low perception means poor detection. High Stealth skill means the higher perception needs to be. High Endurance means less of a chance of you or an enemy flinching from damage. High Strength increases chances of inflicting damage that causes flinching.

Did no one notice that for most of the Demo it was being played with stats above 50? Not to mention in Demos, difficulty is usually set to the lowest level.

Wait till a leak or something first for god sake.

 

[The Lugz]

wait, is this that 'SCROLLS' game they had much talk of? i can never tell. i cant read.
Bethesda, you make me so angry. on so many levels.

grr.
.

 

[Venereus]

It doens't look out-dated at all but none of it looks real, it's all just slightly off. That's the least of the issues. Ai= stupid, no tactics or co-operation between the AI's, the comabt is dull and repetitive. The only thing they have added is finishers, "Yeah, nice job everyone, let's just keep copying what assassins creed did (they probably copied someone as well, if you know who, could you tell me thank you)" Also, as a side note, why on Earth haven't they changed the leveling mechanic?

They did. From what I gather you still level up from improving skills as you use them, but the whole major skills affair wich created Oblivion's leveling problem is out. So now you can really develop organically without worrying about what skills not to use, or resorting to grinding-like training.

 

[Mouse_Crouse]

I agree, but it would just feel a bit more immersive/fun/challenging if you moved quite a bit more from those giant attacks, players are supposed to be scared of dragons and in my opinion I think giants should pose just as much of a threat with their melee attacks, I mean I get that they are trying to make the dragons seem really powerful but the giants just seem way too weak to me.

Fair enough, I don't think the should be as dangerous as dragons, but they could seem more threatening. We'll have to see a non-showcase demo to judge for sure.