Skyrim: Why can't I bust this door down?
- Thread starter Lupus80
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Probably this. Can we please stop shrieking about dumbing it down every time we see something and consider that maybe there was another reason? Maybe stop acting like children at the same time?Twilight_guy said:
I prefer to not be able to bust the doors open than to be killed by said doors.
First time playing Fallout (or Fallout 2, don't remember), first city I came across, there are these locked doors (I'm pretty sure they are unopenable without a key). I'm trying to lockpick them and trying, and trying, and trying, I finally epic failed and broken the lock. I got pissed, put some brass knuckles and punched the door. I was knocked back, knocked unconcious and lost 12 hp.
First time playing Fallout (or Fallout 2, don't remember), first city I came across, there are these locked doors (I'm pretty sure they are unopenable without a key). I'm trying to lockpick them and trying, and trying, and trying, I finally epic failed and broken the lock. I got pissed, put some brass knuckles and punched the door. I was knocked back, knocked unconcious and lost 12 hp.
Man, imagine if you could just kick in locked doors in any RPG. Fully 2/3 in all of the quests in gaming would never happen.
Because, before Merune died in Oblivion, he had a secret army to take all the "Open Lock" spell books and scrolls back to oblivion. So that even if he failed, the men and mer of Tamriel would be stuck behind locked doors.Lupus80 said:
Now, 200 years later, every mage forgot about the Open Lock Spell, as it has been forgotten throughout the ages. Some say a book might be left in a cave somewhere, some say that the only mage left who knows the spell locked himself inside a place somewhere, so that people wouldn't come hunting him down for his knowledge. All is but speculation of course, so it is best to assume that spell has been lost.
But there is one thing Merune forgot:
Lock picks. And loads of them. There will be a time we will face a door that cannot be picked and a key does not exists. There will be a time where the skill of men and mer will not be enough, where courage and faith will be drowned in selfdoubt. But it is not this day! Today the proud citizens of Tamriel will not rest until every lock has been opened, as a symbol of our fight against Merune. We will not be chained and stopped by locked doors, blocking our glorious society !
TODAY, WE PICK LOCKS FOR OUR FREEDOM !!!!
I respectfully disagree. Skyrim is supposed to be about freedom. Having multiple ways to approach a situation is what players want, so taking away options limits player choice. Without the Open Locks spell, maybe the Alteration magic skill is that much more useless. Maybe Bashing could be based on the Two-Handed stat. That way a mage, one-handed or Archery based Rogue, and Melee focused Fighter could each have some means of solving the problem without having to focus on a stealth based skill.PrinceOfShapeir said:
They did essentially the same thing with Blacksmithing, Enchanting, and Alchemy. Three different skills for three different classes, but you're free to focus on whichever ones work for you.
Skyrim is a great game, and I don't really mind the change, but some of us like that sort of thing, and it's sad to see perfectly good features die for the sake of simplicity. Yes, there are graphical and programming constraints to be considered, but one would think that as technology becomes better, we would have more complexity in games, not less. They've made their design choice, and it is what it is, but we're still entitled to our opinion.
As opposed to using Chameleon enchantments on your armor to become basically permanently invisible? Or being able to make a spell that does 1 damage to self to level up your destruction skill easily? Or having to worry about which skills I make major or minor so that I don't gimp myself by not having enough health at high levels?BeeGeenie said:Just another aspect that had to be dumbed down... like spell creation, weapon variety, etc. Sacrificing complexity to appeal to the mass-market or whatever.
Removing exploits and fixing stupid design decisions does not equal dumbing down the game. Out of the three Elder Scrolls games I've played, Skyrim is easily the best, in my opinion at least.
I started on Morrowind, so I never knew of the Bash door option. And, I hadnt noticed the lack of open lock spell. I think that bashing would be a cool thing to implement. Maybe simple wooden doors could be broken, or non magical ones. Depending on your weapon skill, and weapon. (Since Strength isnt a factor, and neither is weapon degrading) But obviously there would be drawbacks, like noise, or your weapon being degraded. As for chests, I know there was a game I played once, where bashing locks off of chests would sometimes damage the goods in a chest. Thatd be easy as well.
Overall, Skyrim is a disappointment, for me anyways.
Overall, Skyrim is a disappointment, for me anyways.
And even with 100 skill and all the perks it isn't any easier for even master locks..TopazFusion said:
The bastards.
Still love Skyrim though, just wish my pure mage would have the option to cast a spell, or freeze the lock and then superheat it to break it or something...
I echo this sentiment. Perhaps they thought that Open Lock spells were too game breaking. I don't know, but it seems to me that if they really wanted to "dumb down" or "mainstream" the game they'd have tossed out the lock picking mini-game, not the spells.PrinceOfShapeir said:
Especially considering the number of games where you're built like Paul Bunyon or carrying an arsenal that could incinerate most wooden doors before the clip empties were it a real weapon.Judgement101 said:
I guess it makes sense in a pacing sort of way to keep doors from being broken open but it has always kind of bothered me. Hey, ya know what else I noticed was missing from Skyrim that was present in Oblivion (at least)? Back doors into dungeons. There were ways of skipping entire dungeons in Oblivion if you knew where in the world the back door was (like the one that lets you into the Dark Brotherhood's common room over in...I think the Cheydinhal area). In Skyrim, you can only enter a dungeon from one way and if you do happen to stumble upon a dungeon's back door you quickly realize that it's more like a back porch. There were several caverns I encountered with nothing at all inside of them but, when I completed quest #427B I found myself opening a hidden door using a switch which revealed a very familiar cave in a part of Skyrim I was trekking through a week before. Even if you know where the sliding rock-wall is, you can only open those via switches which are inaccessible until you complete the dungeons.
I like Skyrim and I liked doing dungeon runs...sometimes but I think it was a flaw to make it so difficult, if not impossible, to skip some of the more twisty, turning, dungeons if you knew where to go.
That does sound like the mostly likely thing which happened. That being said though, it would have been a good idea to make smashing down doors an option dependent upon a specific character build. If you have your strength really well developed or, have a perk in blunt weapons. Same for spells where a mage of a certain level can unlock doors of a certain resistance level as a sort of parallel to the lock picket skill. These are just ideas of course and would be interesting to see in the next Elder Scrolls title.PrinceOfShapeir said:
There isn't the lock spells? I didn't notice.
There is one point in Obilivion where a character tries to break down a door. You end up having to stab him in the back.
EDIT:
I just wanted to say that I much preferred the Obilivion lock picking game. Mostly because you could unlock any lock at any level.
EDIT EDIT:
I saw this on another post but I just want to restate it. They probably made the decission to drop because it would have been way to difficult and buggy to keep. In Oblivion they were originaly planning on having climbable ladders, but it fucked up NPC path-finding so badly they decided to cut them out.
The TES engine (I believe it's a version of Havok) is very hard to completely debug. The games are just so vast that it's impossible to catch all the bugs, and somethings will cause to many problems to be worth it.
There is one point in Obilivion where a character tries to break down a door. You end up having to stab him in the back.
EDIT:
I just wanted to say that I much preferred the Obilivion lock picking game. Mostly because you could unlock any lock at any level.
EDIT EDIT:
I saw this on another post but I just want to restate it. They probably made the decission to drop because it would have been way to difficult and buggy to keep. In Oblivion they were originaly planning on having climbable ladders, but it fucked up NPC path-finding so badly they decided to cut them out.
The TES engine (I believe it's a version of Havok) is very hard to completely debug. The games are just so vast that it's impossible to catch all the bugs, and somethings will cause to many problems to be worth it.
Bethy dev is owned by Bethy pub, which is owned by Zenimax entertainment. TES might as well be Bethy dev's calling card. I wouldn't worry too much.KnightDragul said:
**blinks**TopazFusion said:
... my first thought was "oh, it's just like Fallout 3, this is gonna be easy!"
And it totally was. What issues did you have? I mean, it was exactly the same.
Good, they'd have to actually think of decent quests then, the bullshit of thinking finding the right keys to fit a lock should count as a quest is just lazy. Obviously they'd have to design important places that you physically couldn't get to until a certain point (thick metal doors, too much firepower in the way, etc.) but making areas inaccessible through simple "game no want you in there yet" is just lame.itsthesheppy said:
Just buy every single lockpick every merchant has, I had over 1000 lockpicks by my 7th hour of playing through the game, after that Master lockpicks were my *****!