Skyrim: Yeah, it's good, but...

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Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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[sub](Rejected thread title: Criticising Skyrim, because someone bloody well has to do it.)[/sub]

Yes, yes, I know, yet another Skyrim thread. I'm very sorry. But hey, at least they're basically all cheerful oh-I'm-having-so-much-fun-what-is-your-character's-favourite-food type threads. If you think this is bad, just wait till you see that big boiling clusterfuck that will erupt on these forums when ME3 hits.

...

Anyway, by way of foreword let me make it absolutely clear that I do not think Skyrim is a bad game. In fact, I think it's pretty damn good, occasionally even threatening to spill over into the realm of great. It has a big ol' map to explore, there's stuff to do and its looks range from pretty nice to downright awesome. I've played it for a few too many hours and I've had plenty of fun. So yeah... Skyrim: totally a good game.

Of course, I'm saying all this in a futile attempt to avoid certain people (you know who you are) jumping down my throat for all the distinctly less-than-flattering things I'm about to write.

First off, there's all the nitpick-y stuff. The way the combat never requires you to do anything more creative than mash the attack button and chug health potions. The way the 2004-era animation makes it look like the world is populated by finger puppets. The way they took the hint and hired a bunch more voice actors, but then had them all say the exact same lines. The way that the stealth system is utterly and hilariously broken.

However, those are relatively minor flaws. Irritating, but not enough to detract from the general enjoyment.

What very nearly kills it for me is the utter lack of focus. The huge amount of content means that the game has to spread itself out to a truly painful degree. None of the characters are the least bit fleshed out and the locations all flash by in minutes. Nothing has any depth or weight to it. In short, there's nothing to get invested in, with the possible exception of decorating your in-game house.

At the end of the day, what reason is there to keep playing? The story? I forced myself to follow it long enough to get the dragons to spawn, then the greybeards sent me on a bloody fetch quest and I completely lost interest. Levelling up and getting better gear? I don't know about the rest of you, but I lack the capacity to get excited about a list of numbers. The only thing keeping me going is the potential for exploration, and even that is getting monotonous. Once I'd finished clearing out Cave-o-Bandits #11 and Draugir Tunnel #16 I started to get the distinct impression I'd essentially seen everything the game had to offer.

So, um... thoughts? Does anyone share this sentiment? Indifference? Maybe sees the thin focus as a positive?

EDIT: Huh. People are being remarkably civil about this. I haven't had a single person get mad at me. A pleasant surprise.
 

Shirastro

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Sep 1, 2010
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Oh a can make a huge list of things i don't like about skyrim.....and yet i'm really enjoying the game as a whole.
 

Yvl9921

Our Sweet Prince
Apr 4, 2009
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It's not a game for everyone. The issues you're mentioning are the same issues that people without the inborn gift to appreciate Bethesda games are often found saying.
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
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I don't like how you can't use your shield without first drawing your sword. You could do it in oblivion so why the change?

Also combat still sucks ass. The afformentioned button mashing and potion chugging was revolutionary circa 1983...
 

Clive Howlitzer

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Jan 27, 2011
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I agree with a lot of those points despite loving the game myself also. I could just wander around aimlessly exploring for quite some time. I do agree that the world could use more depth.
I feel as if a lot of what was promised on Skyrim sorta fell flat(Which I expected). The radiant story and the economies of towns and all that, it sorta never came together and because of that, it also caused a bunch of other things to seem more meaningless and fall apart.
I do badly miss the days of Morrowind where everything was static and hand placed more or less. I am not a big fan of going through every dungeon to find a convenient chest at the end with leveled loot to my level.
 

ChupathingyX

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Jun 8, 2010
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You just described every Bethesda game...although I haven't played Skyrim yet.

Great to explore, pretty worlds and a crapload of content.

And just like nearly every single Bethesda game (that I've played); it has dull characters, a boring main quest, crappy combat and no sense of focus or connectivity.

Of course, depending on what you like this can either be a good things or a bad thing. I fall into the second category, however, I'm willing to give Skyrim a go and see what I think.
 

King of the Sandbox

& His Royal +4 Bucket of Doom
Jan 22, 2010
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I'll play the obvious quote/unquote 'fanboy' here and say, "Sorry our massive, open-world game with hundreds of hours of gameplay variety, that is basically a fantasy rpg toolbox to craft your own story, doesn't have a linear enough story for you. I'm sorry all the resources available weren't put into making all of the hundreds of denizens of Skyrim move as realistically as you'd like. I'm sorry your ADD won't let you have a cluttered questlog without ripping your toenails out. I'm sorry you didn't see all the little things put into each dungeon to tell it's story without shoving it in your face."

Joking aside, it's really all about what you want out of it. Looking for a more polished, streamlined, start to finish game like say, Uncharted, will really throw you off when you're given so much freedom. You're perhaps not used to letting an rpg build the story along with you? For me, a simple fetch quest can take me several (in game) days, since I often become distracted by a myriad of things on the way, which is super fun for me. Like the time I came upon a group of snooty elves who thought I didn't give them a wide enough berth. I hope they have a wide enough berth now that they're in Oblivion. MWahahahahaha!

I'm honestly not saying "Omg, you suck! Skyrim RULES YOUR STUPID FACE!" or anything, but a lot of people are going into this huge experience with expectations set up by other games. And while that's not inherently wrong, it's definitely a disservice to yourself and the huge rpg sandbox that is Skyrim.
 

violent_quiche

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May 12, 2011
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Zhukov said:
What very nearly kills it for me is the utter lack of focus. The huge amount of content means that the game has to spread itself out to a truly painful degree. None of the characters are the least bit fleshed out and the locations all flash by in minutes. Nothing has any depth or weight to it. In short, there's nothing to get invested in.
I agree with this so far. Many of the side quests feel meaningless or over too soon, as if I'm doing a favour for a stranger who remains a stranger when the deed is done (albeit a grateful one). Take a quest series like the Wasteland guide in FO3 where you did multiple jobs for the a single character whom you still had to deal with when the job was eventually done. Even if the view it shaped of her was "screw you and your psychotically cheery demeanour", at least it shaped a view that remained for the rest of the game. Skyrim might have benefited from fewer characters with more stories

For all the elements of it I love- customization, the vistas, the various paths through the story- Skyrim is shaping as more of "an interesting place to visit" than a world in need of saving. I'm enjoying it but once I'd killed my 8th dragon, it's fallen a little flat dramatically speaking. I hope to be proven wrong by the end
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Jul 18, 2009
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Pretty much, but it's not yet weighing down on me.

I never played any Bethesda game for its story though so the lack of investment in the overarching plot doesn't really bother me. For me every Bethesda game is simply about "There's a big, fat world out there, go explore it", and Skyrim delivers on that.
Honestly, I enjoy the small, individual little stories that you come across while exploring a lot more than the actual main plot.

And yes, "Mead, mead, mead. Would kill 'm to get some beer. Damn bees and their damn honey". I know regular medievil bandits probably don't have the most stimulating conversations, but still...
Zhukov said:
The way that the stealth system is utterly and hilariously broken.
You mean how you're practically invisible when you reach level 60 Stealth even when an enemy is looking straight at you for 10 feet away?
 

Gnometron

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Jan 28, 2010
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Hmm, I do agree with all your main points. My sneak is 100, I can sneak up to someone who is looking at me directly and just kill them. So far i've played around 40 hours of Skyrim, the thing that gets me realy attached to the game is that I kind of make up my own roleplay experience. I give my character a personality, their traits, and also set some goals for myself. This is what keeps me interested in Skyrim, even though I've explored around half of the map so far it's starting to get abit dull, thats wht I created a new character thats a full on mage instead of a full on stealth class, and I gave that person a personallity aswell. I guess thats just me, but thats what keeps me interested, creating my own Roleplaying Experience. (As Bethesda said you should).
 

ChupathingyX

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Jun 8, 2010
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King of the Sandbox said:
doesn't have a linear enough story for you.
I know you were mostly joking at this part, but the thing is that I would rather the stories be non-linear and have branches when it comes to RPGs such as this.

One of the reasons I didn't like Oblivion's main quest was because it was just one straight road and you were given almost no choice in the matter, you had to follow the good guys and could not decide for yourself, same thing with Fallout 3.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
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Casual Shinji said:
Pretty much, but it's not yet weighing down on me.

I never played any Bethesda game for its story though so the lack of investment in the overarching plot doesn't really bother me. For me every Bethesda game is simply about "There's a big, fat world out there, go explore it", and Skyrim delivers on that.
Honestly, I enjoy the small, individual little stories that you come across while exploring a lot more than the actual main plot.

And yes, "Mead, mead, mead. Would kill 'm to get some beer. Damn bees and their damn honey". I know regular medievil bandits probably don't have the most stimulating conversations, but still...
Zhukov said:
The way that the stealth system is utterly and hilariously broken.
You mean how you're practically invisible when you reach level 60 Stealth even when an enemy is looking straight at you for 10 feet away?
Wait until you have 100 Sneak and have filled out the Sneak skill tree. You become a god who one hit kills everything except dragons (though I have managed to sneak attack one dragon).
 

EHKOS

Madness to my Methods
Feb 28, 2010
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SIDEQUESTS, SIDEQUESTS, SIDEQUESTS. They make the whole game. The Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves Guild, the Stormcloak rebellion. Bethesda has never made a good main quest!
 

Saulkar

Regular Member
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Aug 25, 2010
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I agree with you on all points except what makes the game so much fun is I dynamically generate an inner monologue, emotional responses, and over arching goal for my character as I play. Sorta like how you form pictures in your head while reading a book to the point that you are no longer reading the book but rather having a daydream that conforms to it. - Immersion

CAPTCHA: increase dionsor - Sounds like my kind of respitory virus medication.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Jul 18, 2009
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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Wait until you have 100 Sneak and have filled out the Sneak skill tree. You become a god who one hit kills everything except dragons (though I have managed to sneak attack one dragon).
I've got a Sneak of about 90 now and I'm pretty damn close to this state.

The times I've used a shout to get out of a tough situation can be counted on one hand, and I've only ever used my orc berserker power once.
 

King of the Sandbox

& His Royal +4 Bucket of Doom
Jan 22, 2010
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ChupathingyX said:
King of the Sandbox said:
doesn't have a linear enough story for you.
I know you were mostly joking at this part, but the thing is that I would rather the stories be non-linear and have branches when it comes to RPGs such as this.

One of the reasons I didn't like Oblivion's main quest was because it was just one straight road and you were given almost no choice in the matter, you had to follow the good guys and could not decide for yourself, same thing with Fallout 3.
Well, then, you're in luck, because here, you can side with several factions, one of the main two, and none of them could be called black and white 'good' or 'bad' guys. That's one of the things that's impressed me most with Skyrim's moral choices, that no one is inherently right or wrong, just differing opinions like in real life.

And this is from someone who's only heard about the Stormcloaks vs the Empire, without having chosen a side yet. (And honestly, unless I have to, I probably won't, not with my first playthrough.

I'm about 8-+ hours in and haven't advanced any main missions beyond meeting the Greybeards, and I'm having a blast with the world and exploring, so I can't really comment on whether or not it stays this ambiguous, but from what I hear, it does, which makes me happy.
 

Phishfood

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Jul 21, 2009
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Can't say I disagree, the complete lack of focus is bothering me. I'm on a quest to "save the world" but I feel like I have ADHD, detouring to fetch this helmet, fix that amulet, rescue those prisoners...

Its not a bad thing, lots of content is good, I just feel the side quests could be more integral some how. I don't mean "required" but at least "relavent" rather than odd jobs for random strangers.
 

King of the Sandbox

& His Royal +4 Bucket of Doom
Jan 22, 2010
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Saulkar said:
I agree with you on all points except what makes the game so much fun is I dynamically generate an inner monologue, emotional responses, and over arching goal for my character as I play. Sorta like how you form pictures in your head while reading a book to the point that you are no longer reading the book but rather having a daydream that conforms to it. - Immersion

CAPTCHA: increase dionsor - Sounds like my kind of respitory virus medication.
Gnometron said:
Hmm, I do agree with all your main points. My sneak is 100, I can sneak up to someone who is looking at me directly and just kill them. So far i've played around 40 hours of Skyrim, the thing that gets me realy attached to the game is that I kind of make up my own roleplay experience. I give my character a personality, their traits, and also set some goals for myself. This is what keeps me interested in Skyrim, even though I've explored around half of the map so far it's starting to get abit dull, thats wht I created a new character thats a full on mage instead of a full on stealth class, and I gave that person a personallity aswell. I guess thats just me, but thats what keeps me interested, creating my own Roleplaying Experience. (As Bethesda said you should).
You guys are winrars in my book. This game is my own personal D&D simulator. I do the exact same things. In fact, I've been updating my Facebook status like a journal written by my character, putting the adventures I've run into in a more creative form, reminiscent of what I do as I actually play.

Skyrim is a toolset, a campaign, an awesome set of DM core rules that let you go out and craft your own tale, indeed.
 

Trippy Turtle

Elite Member
May 10, 2010
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I enjoy almost everything about this game. It is my current escape from real life where I can't kill people without at least hiding the body.
The only thing I have actually thought the game would benefit greatly from is more magic options like armor enchantments or just more spells. I preferred oblivion's armor enchantments by a long shot. Another thing is the lack of deep water and things to find while swimming around. Finally I miss being able to see my character while equipping him with stuff. I wear an execution hood (But I an somehow still see) and lots of other random mismatched armor and have no idea if I look publicly indecent.