Skyrim: Yeah, it's good, but...

[targren]

This is what I've been saying. I think most of the dissatisfaction comes from people who aren't used to using their own imagination, and expect to be led everywhere, straight through on rails, without, y'know ROLE-PLAYING.

I've done role-playing in just about every medium there is that has roleplaying (I've even LARPed once, gods forgive me), but I don't see the point in role-playing-with-yourself. That's just writing a story, and if you've got the imagination to do that in the confines of the game, then you've probably got it outside of Skyrim too. You've still got 10 days. Close down Skyrim, fire up Word/Writer/whatever, and nail off NaNoWriMo. Then you don't have to run around Beth's sloppy storytelling.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I sort of got lost after I completed the Fetch Quest for the Greybeards. After they let me FINALLY do a Fus Ro Dah! attack, I just dropped off. I didn't care about the Stormcloak versus Empire scuffle, and I just went wandering.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

The lack of any real guidance (not the same thing as being on rails) is something that has thrown off a lot of people from liking the game from my experience. Even I found the extremely extremely extremely slow start to be a serious issue. The long loading times does it no justice either.

The repetition, bugs, and issues, can't just constantly be excused because "it's Bethesda".

In my opinion, the bugs can be forgiven based on the fact that this game is HUGE, and there is no way that you could possibly make a game this big not have any bugs, or hire enough QA testers to see every possible bug in the game. Also, the bugs I've seen have been fairly minor, funny bugs that don't break anything in the game and don't diminish the experience. As long as the games bugs aren't game breaking, and Bethesda actively tries to remove them, I can't be mad at them for the game having bugs.

I agree with you that the common issues with the games should be worked on though and shouldn't be given a free pass "because it's Bethesda"

Yeah, bugs are fine. But a game breaking bug that permanently lowers the FPS the longer you play? I can't just wave that off. Sad, really. This was my GOTY till I ran into that bug.

 

[MultiElford]

I guess I don't haven't played that many open-world games to compare it to. I missed big hits like Fallout 3, but did play Fallout: New Vegas as well as Morrowind and Oblivion.

If I compare it to Fallout: New Vegas I have to say that I got a totally different feeling from it, which is to be expected due to the extreme difference between the two worlds, but the gameplay is what I want to talk about.

I think that I am more motivated to play Skyrim. I play as a mage and I really feel like I am working towards being the most powerful wizard in all of Skyrim and I am sure I can achieve that in the end. I would have enjoyed being more focused on my profession technically (like I was forced to in Oblivion or Morrowind due to the class system) but I think I am actually more of a mage in Skyrim..
New Vegas makes me feel just like a normal guy that travels through the world and I don't think there is any real 'profession' I could aim to perfect even if I wanted to. Having 100 Science doesn't make me feel like a scientist for a example.

Nothing brings me out of the experience of being that mage in Skyrim, and that might actually be the problem. For the first time, I am not thinking about the game aspects. I am not thinking "This might have a positive impact on my stats" or "If I do this, I might get a cool weapon".
Skyrim is truly a role-playing game, and I never felt like I played a ROLE-playing game until I dived into this particular world.
On the other hand, Skyrim made me want even more freedom. I actually believe that I would actually enjoy an old-school tabletop experience (Dungeons&Dragons I mean) just as much, or even more... And I would never think about Skyrim again because it really delivers nothing other than this role-playing aspect since the game-aspects aren't anything new.

Really, I try acting just like myself in Skyrim most of the time, and the game allows that... When we are talking about exploring and questing...
I think the biggest problem I have with Skyrim is the dialogue. I want to say the stuff that I would say, or at least a Mass Effect type dialogue wheel. It is really creating a little identity crisis for my character... I am playing him as a neutral character that would always react relaxed and cool... But then I say stuff that doesn't fit him at all.
The other problem is that the game allows me to fast-travel... I force myself to use a carriage and pay the money if there is any available, and otherwise walk to my destination. I hate the option to fast-travel, it really hurts the overall role-playing experience.

In conclusion, I love Skyrim for the near 100% role-playing experience, but right when I step out of the game, I notice how I am not at all interested in the game-aspects... So why not play a real role-playing game like Dungeons and Dragons?
(Because I have no friends that are interested in joining me).

I forgot to mention Mass Effect which is a game that should make me feel much more content than I actually was at the time. Both the game-aspects and role-playing were superb and I always enjoyed Sci-Fi more than medieval fantasy. As much as I loved Mass Effect, there is still something that was missing. I don't know what and I am really interested to see whether this unknown factor will be existant in Mass Effect 3 (Since 2 made me feel much more comfortable than 1). Still ,I love Mass Effect much more than the Elder Scrolls, but I would like a first person perspective in a Mass Effect game. Maybe that's what holds me back from feeling perfectly in-tune with Mass Effect - the third person perspective.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I am so upset that there is literally no reason for Waterbreathing. Argonians are most useless because, while the inherent waterbreathing is nice, there's no actual need to even have it. So I feel like the entire point of being an Argonian is totally null.

Actually, their racial power Histskin is great as it serves to make you near invincible in combat once a day.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

So, um... thoughts? Does anyone share this sentiment? Indifference? Maybe sees the thin focus as a positive?

This is Bethesda's formula. At the end of the day, it either works for you, or it doesn't. I find these sandbox worlds they create fascinating, I can lose myself in them completely. I know my imagination and suspension of disbelief is spackling in all the things the game itself can't or won't, but that doesn't hinder my enjoyment. There is certainly a laundry list of nits that could be very aggressively picked, but...for me...the whole is far, far greater than the sum of its parts.

It makes it hard to address criticism of a game like Skyrim, because we're left with "Huh...I guess this just isn't your kind of game", which isn't a very informative reply, and seems to imply that the individual doesn't like RPGS or something (and I know that you do). But that's really all we're left with. This is a particular kind of sandbox, filled with a particular kind of sand, and while one person might be making a sand castle and drooling in excitement, you're pawing through the sand in disappointment, thinking "Look at all this drab sand...is this all there is?". And that's unfortunate, because I feel like you're missing out on a pretty special game, but not everyone is going to experience everything the same way, and one person's GOTY is another person's box o' shit.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The other problem is that the game allows me to fast-travel... I force myself to use a carriage and pay the money if there is any available, and otherwise walk to my destination. I hate the option to fast-travel, it really hurts the overall role-playing experience.

I honestly can't even believe how much the decision to stop fast-traveling improved Bethesda games for me. First time I tried Oblivion I ended up fast traveling to where Brother Jauffre was (Oh, I can just click and go straight there? Alright then!), and then fast traveling again to the next spot, and then I said "Oh this is just rubbish" and tossed the game aside for several years. It seems crazy masochistic and I wince when suggesting it to people, but trudging around is how these games come alive. You develop a sense of place and scale and context that is utterly lacking otherwise.

 

[MultiElford]

The other problem is that the game allows me to fast-travel... I force myself to use a carriage and pay the money if there is any available, and otherwise walk to my destination. I hate the option to fast-travel, it really hurts the overall role-playing experience.

I honestly can't even believe how much the decision to stop fast-traveling improved Bethesda games for me. First time I tried Oblivion I ended up fast traveling to where Brother Jauffre was (Oh, I can just click and go straight there? Alright then!), and then fast traveling again to the next spot, and then I said "Oh this is just rubbish" and tossed the game aside for several years. It seems crazy masochistic and I wince when suggesting it to people, but trudging around is how these games come alive. You develop a sense of place and scale and context that is utterly lacking otherwise.

Exactly. I would understand it if the game was more like an MMORPG or a JRPG, but in a WRPG that is open world and relies on immersion, fast-travel just seems like a weird decision. Oblivion needed fast-travelling because there was no carriage-system like in Skyrim or Morrowind, but Skyrim should not have that feature.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

I am so upset that there is literally no reason for Waterbreathing. Argonians are most useless because, while the inherent waterbreathing is nice, there's no actual need to even have it. So I feel like the entire point of being an Argonian is totally null.

Actually, their racial power Histskin is great as it serves to make you near invincible in combat once a day.

If I wanted invincibility during combat, I would be a heavy armored sword and board Orc. Berserker Rage not only halves the damage you take, but also gives you double the damage output. Combine that with some heavy armor and a shield, and you're a walking fortress for 60 seconds. Even without a shield, my Two-Handed Orc could facetank dragons, and swing my sword about 5 times for a dead lizard. And then I still fail to realize any reason to actually be an Argonian, because from my own personal opinion, they're kind of ugly.

I'm not saying that being an Argonian totally wastes the character, I just personally see no reason to be one. :/

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I am so upset that there is literally no reason for Waterbreathing. Argonians are most useless because, while the inherent waterbreathing is nice, there's no actual need to even have it. So I feel like the entire point of being an Argonian is totally null.

Actually, their racial power Histskin is great as it serves to make you near invincible in combat once a day.

If I wanted invincibility during combat, I would be a heavy armored sword and board Orc. Berserker Rage not only halves the damage you take, but also gives you double the damage output. Combine that with some heavy armor and a shield, and you're a walking fortress for 60 seconds. Even without a shield, my Two-Handed Orc could facetank dragons, and swing my sword about 5 times for a dead lizard. And then I still fail to realize any reason to actually be an Argonian, because from my own personal opinion, they're kind of ugly.

I'm not saying that being an Argonian totally wastes the character, I just personally see no reason to be one. :/

Honestly? I couldn't care less about the racial bonuses. I just wanted to play a talking lizard. [sub][sub]Don't judge me.[/sub][/sub]

 

[Evil Top Hat]

The way the combat never requires you to do anything more creative than mash the attack button and chug health potions.

I would hardly call that a justified claim to make. Playing as a spell sword with light armour, I find that I find focusing on timing my attacks and power attacks, as well as actively dodging enemy attacks (especially from the big lads with two handers) to be an absolute necessity. I suppose the same would go for any light armour class, or people using a sword and board. If you're running into combat with heavy armour on though, this claim is more understandable.

Try turning up the difficulty setting up, the game can be severly challenging, if you make it harder you'll force yourself into needing to think about positioning. Hell, if you only use ranged weapons and spells you practically NEED to know how to kite your enemies or they'll carve you a new one before you can say "By Azura!".

 

[similar.squirrel]

Frost magic seems to be extremely overpowered. Do the Dunmer have some kind of susceptibility to cold that I don't know about? Because I routinely get decimated by Ice Spike, whilst other spells don't do much damage.

Also, I find it a bit strange that dragons are piss-easy to kill in comparison to, say, guards.
Still an awesome game, though.

 

[Evil Top Hat]

Frost magic seems to be extremely overpowered. Do the Dunmer have some kind of susceptibility to cold that I don't know about? Because I routinely get decimated by Ice Spike, whilst other spells don't do much damage.

Also, I find it a bit strange that dragons are piss-easy to kill in comparison to, say, guards.
Still an awesome game, though.

I know exactly what you mean. I actually had fire resistance enchanted gear on my dunmer, as well as the fire res racial. It created this incredibly awkward situation in which a dragon rouring flames into my light armour wearing, shieldless face did a pathetic amount of damage but one ice mage could down me in about 2 shots.

 

[Zhukov]

The way the combat never requires you to do anything more creative than mash the attack button and chug health potions.

I would hardly call that a justified claim to make. Playing as a spell sword, with light armour, I find that I nneed to focus on timing my attacks and powerattacks, as well as actively dodging enemy attacks (especially from the big lads with two handers) to be an absolute necessity. I suppose the same would go for any light armour class, or people using a sword and board. If you're running into combat with heavy armour on though, this claim is more understandable.

Try turning up the difficulty setting up, the game can be severly challenging, if you make it harder you'll force yourself into needing to think about positioning. Hell, if you only use ranged weapons and spells you practically NEED to know how to kite your enemies or they'll carve you a new one before you can say "By Azura!".

I beg to differ.

What happens if you let one of those big two-hander lads hit your frail magic arse? Your health goes down by a good chunk. Then you can just open your time-stopping inventory and instantly medicate the pain away. Timing, dodging or blocking is not required.

I play a light armour guy with a bow and duel daggers. No shields, no heavy armour, no spells.

I predominantly use sneak attacks, but mostly just for the style points. I am yet to encounter anything that I couldn't beat by just running up to it and, well... mashing attack while chugging potions. Giants, dragons, spriggans, mages, vampires... whatever. Granted, killing a giant like that requires a lot of health potions, but the game hands them out like confetti and I could always just brew my own.

I tried turning the difficulty up. The only difference I noticed was enemies having more health. (And maybe doing more damage? Dunno, didn't check.) It didn't make the combat harder, just longer.

 

[spartan231490]

Disagree with every one of your points, especially the hint that skyrim isn't a great game, because it is. It's the greatest game of the console generation, if not the decade.

That's what i like to call having an opinion as i would like to disagree that Skyrim is not the greatest game of the console generation or the decade and i believe he can hint all he wants that Skyrim isn't a great game because everyone is allowed an opinion and mine happens to reside with his.

Never said he couldn't have an opinion. I said that mine was different than his, way to read. Don't get all mad when someone posts an opinion that opposes yours on a thread that has absolutely nothing but opinions in it. In other important news: I dislike lobster, prefer dogs to cats, and will buy cool ranch Doritos over nacho cheese every time. Any other pointless opinions people want to share?

 

[Stu35]

My biggest, most irritating problem with Skyrim, is the lack of reward for actually exploring. "We're making it harder to fast-travel so you'll see the world!"

This.

I love Skyrim, great game. However, I do have quite a few gripes - most of those gripes are petty little ones which are more a "this is what I would have wanted in this situation" than anything else.

However, My biggest gripe, is the fact that I had to spend the first 10-15 hours of gameplay slogging about the Skyrim countryside, getting stuck up mountains because I hadn't taken the lone path to the top that the developers wanted me to.

I liked the Oblivion Fast travel system - I could go to the main settlements, but had to discover the rest, this would have worked just as well in Skyrim without forcing me to walk all the way to Winterhold or out to Riften as well.

I'm sure many players will disagree, however I would argue that including that fast travel system would let players like me use it, whilst others could continue to take shank's pony everywhere they go.

It seems minor, and now that I've discovered a lot of places all over the world it's not a drama because I can fast travel to a nearby location before walking to the nearby dungeon I've been sent to go collect/kill something, but it really, really irritated me when I wanted to go join the Stormcloaks and found myself, first slogging from Whiterun to Windhelm, then from Windhelm to the frozen islands not TOO far from Winterhold...

I find wandering through the countryside in games boring, the occasional bandit or dragon does not make up for forcing me to do it excessively.


...Wow, long rant, but ultimately I have to end on the following: I can get over this (and many other) minor problems, but that doesn't mean there's not room for constructive criticism. Also, and at the risk of sounding like a Hypocrite, I've seen quite a few people complaining in this thread about things, which many, if not most, other players would actually find to be a positive.

Finally, on Combat - I ask those who have complained about it and not offered how they would improve it - How would you improve it? Because, aside from a lack of feedback from my hits, and the occasional immersion-breaking Dark Elf bandit telling me to prepare to die after seeing all 4 of his comrades get their heads taken off by my Twin-Axe wielding Dragonborn Nord, instead of fleeing in terror as one would expect from a fragile elf when faced with (for all intents and purposes at this point in the game), Talos reborn, in angry, Elf-hating form. I actually quite enjoy the combat.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

I am so upset that there is literally no reason for Waterbreathing. Argonians are most useless because, while the inherent waterbreathing is nice, there's no actual need to even have it. So I feel like the entire point of being an Argonian is totally null.

Actually, their racial power Histskin is great as it serves to make you near invincible in combat once a day.

If I wanted invincibility during combat, I would be a heavy armored sword and board Orc. Berserker Rage not only halves the damage you take, but also gives you double the damage output. Combine that with some heavy armor and a shield, and you're a walking fortress for 60 seconds. Even without a shield, my Two-Handed Orc could facetank dragons, and swing my sword about 5 times for a dead lizard. And then I still fail to realize any reason to actually be an Argonian, because from my own personal opinion, they're kind of ugly.

I'm not saying that being an Argonian totally wastes the character, I just personally see no reason to be one. :/

Honestly? I couldn't care less about the racial bonuses. I just wanted to play a talking lizard. [sub][sub]Don't judge me.[/sub][/sub]

Oh, I'm not. xD Argonian was my second character. First was Dark Elf. Then I decided I wanted to be a fullblown mage and chose High Elf, and I love it.

Addendum to things I dislike about Skyrim: Werewolves.

Why is it that when you see a werewolf, you have to be stupid careful or it'll fuck you up, HOWEVER when YOU are the werewolf, a common bandit goes "Lol...a werewolf..." and kills you in 2 seconds? I'm having a really difficult time loving Beast Form for the fact that, even as a werewolf, you're still WAY too fragile, with no conventional means of recovery, while my own attacks barely scratch their belt buckle. That really, really ruined Lycanthropy for my in Skyrim. They talked about how fuckin' strong and durable and stupid fast you are, when absolutely none of this except speed is the case. You're still fragile, and your damage output, even when you alt-swipe with both of your claws, is so weak that a novice with Flames could kill something faster than you could.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I beg to differ.

What happens if you let one of those big two-hander lads hit your frail magic arse? Your health goes down by a good chunk. Then you can just open your time-stopping inventory and instantly medicate the pain away. Timing, dodging or blocking is not required.

I play a light armour guy with a bow and duel daggers. No shields, no heavy armour, no spells.

I predominantly use sneak attacks, but mostly just for the style points. I am yet to encounter anything that I couldn't beat by just running up to it and, well... mashing attack while chugging potions. Giants, dragons, spriggans, mages, vampires... whatever. Granted, killing a giant like that requires a lot of health potions, but the game hands them out like confetti and I could always just brew my own.

I tried turning the difficulty up. The only difference I noticed was enemies having more health. (And maybe doing more damage? Dunno, didn't check.) It didn't make the combat harder, just longer.

This is a slight exaggeration. Playing on Expert, and having thoroughly explored over 50 ruins and pack-ratted everything out of there that I could carry, and NEVER selling Healing Potions, I have a small stack of potions available for emergencies, but certainly not an infinite supply. Earlier in the game, before I learned how to time my blocks correctly and actually perked up some defensive skills, any moderately difficult foe could easily be a 10-15 potion fight, obliterating my potion stocks, and some hit me hard enough to just wipe out my entire health bar before I even had time to go for a potion. This is as a light armor wearing, sneak attacking, archery/sword and board character.

I imagine an extremely prolific Alchemist could create an infinite potions scenario, but the game does not "hand them out like confetti". They're not super rare, but you're not drowning in them either.

Enemies do significantly more damage on Expert. I've had level scaled Bandits come close to one-shotting me (and have BEEN one-shotted by level scaled Briar-Heart, as a level 42). Had I blocked that power attack, though, I would have taken no damage whatsoever.

I do agree that there should be a cooldown on potions, however. There was a similar issue with stimpacks in FO3 (one I modded away). Either a cooldown, or the health should come back gradually.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I liked the Oblivion Fast travel system - I could go to the main settlements, but had to discover the rest, this would have worked just as well in Skyrim without forcing me to walk all the way to Winterhold or out to Riften as well.

This system already exists in Skyrim. Take a horse cart. They go to all the major cities for a pittance of a fee.

 

[Ascarus]

The issues you're mentioning are the same issues that people without the inborn gift to appreciate Bethesda games are often found saying.

lolwut? inborn gift? are you serious?

skyrim is a great game, but it's lack of focus and urgency is a "problem". i can live with it having expected bethesda to follow the same pattern they used in morrowind and oblivion, but the fact that i can wander all over skyrim and ignore the main story line without penalty does detract from any sense of "wow, my actions are really having an effect of this world".

but i have killed dozens of bandits. and bears. and i swear the next person who talks to me that sounds like arnold schwarzenegger is going to get an axe to the face.