Skyrim: Yeah, it's good, but...
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I've been toting the same sentiments for a while now, I'm glad to see that not every one is mindlessly praising the game. I've been trying an RP focused run, and admittedly its a lot more fun than a more by the books approach, but it still doesn't let you escape from the dull as dirt combat and insanely repetitive dungeons and enemies.
Overall I sorta knew what I was getting into though, and mainly play it between releases and multi-player sessions with buds, and for that its a good game.
Overall I sorta knew what I was getting into though, and mainly play it between releases and multi-player sessions with buds, and for that its a good game.
You must be consuming huge amounts of health potion to survive some of the battles in the game, if all you do is slug and chug. I suppose if that tactic works, then you are right, it is a legitimate problem with the game. However, the only health potions I never make health potions on my character, just pick up what I find, and very very rarely do I ever drink one in combat. I think I have about 50 minor health potions, and a bunch more stronger health potions stacked up because by dodging, timing and keeping inflicted damage to a minimum I never really need them.Zhukov said:
I don't think it's so much of a problem with the game's difficulty, and more to do with the fact that health potions are just too abundant. If they made it so you'd be lucky to have about 6 decent health potions on you at one time, you simply would not be able to finish a high level dungeon by just charging to each fight like a meat shield.
While I was really enthusiastic about Skyrim at first, about a week of playing it whenever I could fit it in has started to get me annoyed by some of the game's flaws. Mostly about how little the choices you make during quests actually effect the game. Sure, one incidental comment from an NPC here or there, but even after beating the main quest, all that changes is that random NPC's have an extra line or two, that's it. Not even that, but some major events are still referred to even after the point in which they were relevant. (For example, them referring to you as the new member of the Mages and the Companions when you are actually their leaders.)
Even instances where you would think Bethesda would just throw in a little bit of extra dialogue in there.
Or how about when you become the leader of the Thieves Guild and some of the major quest giver NPC's still treat you like the new guy. (Even referring to you as such.)
Really, I know a ton of people complained about it in New Vegas and Fallout 3 (Pre-Broken Steel) but I wish Bethesda just would have ended the game at the end of the main quest. Maybe have like a warning beforehand like New Vegas did it. Mostly because, the ending to the main quest was actually rather cool and climactic, but everything after that feels like an anti-climax and there is absolutely no change to the game world at all. Dragons are just, if not more, common than they were before and most NPC's don't even mention the difference. There just needs to be an end, otherwise there is no closure.
Same thing happened with Broken Steel in Fallout 3, in my opinion. You defeat the Enclave again, and all you're treated to is a scene of Elder Lyons telling you how much a cool person you are. Then you're kicked out into the game world again. No epilogue, no credits, nothing. Sure, I'm glad they got rid of Fallout 3's shitty original ending, but that wasn't much better.
I really like this game but some of this stuff is just really getting on my nerves. Bethesda did a really good job crafting the world in this game, but it just doesn't feel believable once the player gets involved.
Even instances where you would think Bethesda would just throw in a little bit of extra dialogue in there.
You think in the quest "Ill Met By Moonlight" there would be at least some mention about you being a werewolf if you already were one from the Companions quest, considering that's the only other quest in the game that's about Werewolves.
Or how about when you become the leader of the Thieves Guild and some of the major quest giver NPC's still treat you like the new guy. (Even referring to you as such.)
Really, I know a ton of people complained about it in New Vegas and Fallout 3 (Pre-Broken Steel) but I wish Bethesda just would have ended the game at the end of the main quest. Maybe have like a warning beforehand like New Vegas did it. Mostly because, the ending to the main quest was actually rather cool and climactic, but everything after that feels like an anti-climax and there is absolutely no change to the game world at all. Dragons are just, if not more, common than they were before and most NPC's don't even mention the difference. There just needs to be an end, otherwise there is no closure.
Same thing happened with Broken Steel in Fallout 3, in my opinion. You defeat the Enclave again, and all you're treated to is a scene of Elder Lyons telling you how much a cool person you are. Then you're kicked out into the game world again. No epilogue, no credits, nothing. Sure, I'm glad they got rid of Fallout 3's shitty original ending, but that wasn't much better.
I really like this game but some of this stuff is just really getting on my nerves. Bethesda did a really good job crafting the world in this game, but it just doesn't feel believable once the player gets involved.
Without going into to much detail.
THE GOOD
The sense of atmosphere you get from walking around the wilderness.
The size and scope of the game world and its changing scenery.
The dungeons and other random locations to be explored have a good narrative to them.
The magic system, while lacking spells, is fun to use.
The dragons act like dragons and not just another monster.
The music, though mostly ripped from previous games, is awesome.
THE BAD
Lack luster combat, with the exception of the aformentioned magic.
Broken or totally worthless skill trees.
Thanks to the skill trees every character feels the same.
Poor story and undeveloped NPCs.
Being the Dragonborn doesn't feel special.
You actions have no consequence, especially in regard to the big world changing ones.
A difficulty level that fluctuates between being so easy you sink into a coma and so difficult that you have to exploit the AI in order to win.
Dragons are a little too common and a little too easy to kill.
The menu sucks and conventions from the pervious games have vanished for no good reason (such as how items are sold, the quest log, etc,).
I don't understand the universal high ratings the game has got. It seems to me that they put an exorbitant amout of effort into creating content (which is great) but then skimped when it came to developing the mechanics needed to experience their creation. It doesn't really bring anythign new to the table and many of it's elements (at least individually) are suppased by other games.
7/10
THE GOOD
The sense of atmosphere you get from walking around the wilderness.
The size and scope of the game world and its changing scenery.
The dungeons and other random locations to be explored have a good narrative to them.
The magic system, while lacking spells, is fun to use.
The dragons act like dragons and not just another monster.
The music, though mostly ripped from previous games, is awesome.
THE BAD
Lack luster combat, with the exception of the aformentioned magic.
Broken or totally worthless skill trees.
Thanks to the skill trees every character feels the same.
Poor story and undeveloped NPCs.
Being the Dragonborn doesn't feel special.
You actions have no consequence, especially in regard to the big world changing ones.
A difficulty level that fluctuates between being so easy you sink into a coma and so difficult that you have to exploit the AI in order to win.
Dragons are a little too common and a little too easy to kill.
The menu sucks and conventions from the pervious games have vanished for no good reason (such as how items are sold, the quest log, etc,).
I don't understand the universal high ratings the game has got. It seems to me that they put an exorbitant amout of effort into creating content (which is great) but then skimped when it came to developing the mechanics needed to experience their creation. It doesn't really bring anythign new to the table and many of it's elements (at least individually) are suppased by other games.
7/10
I honestly think the whole game could be saved with one or two damn good pieces of DLC. Shivering Isles, while just as broken as most of Oblivion, was one of the most interesting quests I've ever had the pleasure of playing in an rpg. That said to redeem Skyrim you'd probably need two about that good. No cop - out castle bull crap like EVERY other piece of DLC in Oblivion. Since we've already sorta seen the other lands of Tamriel crop up in Skyrim's code i think we can pin our hopes to a possibility of an even bigger, more important story than what was seen in the main story of Skyrim.
That said i don't expect anyone to wait for the game to improve. Maybe pick up the game of the year edition at some point in the future and try that instead. It'll probably be very different.
That said i don't expect anyone to wait for the game to improve. Maybe pick up the game of the year edition at some point in the future and try that instead. It'll probably be very different.
All very valid criticisms. Combat is dull, animations are terrible, forgettable and bland characters.Zhukov said:
I would use Assassin's Creed or Dragon Age as an example of better combat.Syzygy23 said:
Assassin's Creed melee combat is extremely fluid. Every animation flows smoothly so that it doesn't feel like "just mash trigger button!". Every enemy has a slightly different approach. Normal guards you counter kill, which is time sensitive, Spear guards you sheath your sword and grab their spear out of their hands, heavy guards you kick or dodge. It's not just mashing the trigger button till the other guy falls over dead, it's a smooth dance of timing.
Dragon Age 1&2 had a very nice magic system and really powerful spells. Being able to cast six unique spells without having to pull up a menu is vastly superior to only being able to cast two. Magic in Skyrim kinda seems lacklustre, and lacks that WHAM impact that the spells in DA had.
They should have merged the Wait and Magic/Skills/Inventory/Map menu onto the start button, and then used Y and B as extra buttons for spells.
After logging ~100 hours into the game I am supremely disappointed. The combat and dungeons are repetitive, the glitches and bugs are EXTREMELY frustrating, and the complete lack of epilogue (save the final "quest" title) rounds the whole thing off with a sour taste of bile in my mouth.
On Master difficulty the only hard part is the first few hours until you save up enough gold get your build rolling - and then is 2 weeks of mindless 1 shots(assuming you dont just do the 10 main quests only and be done with it)... Save of course for Alduin, the built up ultimate baddy who took me 2 swings =/
The point of a successful RPG imo is to build yourself up into something special - make you feel a supreme sense of accomplishment despite wasting weeks of your time staring at a TV/Monitor and developing diabetes. Skyrim fails to bring that warm fuzzy feeling to our heroes. If I'm going to walk around feeling like I have Up-Down-Up-Down-A-B-Start-Select-God-Mode on then I would at least like to have significant impact on the world around me. Instead choices I make have 0 impact on the world around me. Bring ruin to the empire, squash the rebellious stormcloaks, or bring peace between them? Who cares, save for an obscure 1 liner here or there the world turns ever round without the slightest hiccup.
Even after SAVING THE WORLD, people still condescend to you like your some tedious upstart they can't wait to stop wasting their time with. And speaking of... THERE IS NO ENDING. Im all for open RPG, continue after the game... But I put a ton of time into this and a LARGE part of that was the final satisfaction of sitting back and watching 10 minutes of some well spoken baritone drone on about how my actions affected the world of Skyrim. Instead we are treated to the same dragon flight animation we have already witnessed 200 times (only this time synchronized!) and a brief grats. Then its business as usual, more world who's owed saving - so let's get back to the grind.
There are a few positives - tho I wouldn't recommend the game. Many of the quests have interesting stories before they abruptly end. There are a few puzzles that will give you momentary pause which is fun. There are a lot of fun Easter eggs. The game physics are VERY realistic (Cheese wheels anyone?). The graphics are great (tho often under utilized) and the world was crafted with extreme detail. In addition the NPC and Monster AI and ambient behavior is richly detailed which makes it easy to immerse yourself into your roll until one of its shortcomings snap you back out.
On Master difficulty the only hard part is the first few hours until you save up enough gold get your build rolling - and then is 2 weeks of mindless 1 shots(assuming you dont just do the 10 main quests only and be done with it)... Save of course for Alduin, the built up ultimate baddy who took me 2 swings =/
The point of a successful RPG imo is to build yourself up into something special - make you feel a supreme sense of accomplishment despite wasting weeks of your time staring at a TV/Monitor and developing diabetes. Skyrim fails to bring that warm fuzzy feeling to our heroes. If I'm going to walk around feeling like I have Up-Down-Up-Down-A-B-Start-Select-God-Mode on then I would at least like to have significant impact on the world around me. Instead choices I make have 0 impact on the world around me. Bring ruin to the empire, squash the rebellious stormcloaks, or bring peace between them? Who cares, save for an obscure 1 liner here or there the world turns ever round without the slightest hiccup.
Even after SAVING THE WORLD, people still condescend to you like your some tedious upstart they can't wait to stop wasting their time with. And speaking of... THERE IS NO ENDING. Im all for open RPG, continue after the game... But I put a ton of time into this and a LARGE part of that was the final satisfaction of sitting back and watching 10 minutes of some well spoken baritone drone on about how my actions affected the world of Skyrim. Instead we are treated to the same dragon flight animation we have already witnessed 200 times (only this time synchronized!) and a brief grats. Then its business as usual, more world who's owed saving - so let's get back to the grind.
There are a few positives - tho I wouldn't recommend the game. Many of the quests have interesting stories before they abruptly end. There are a few puzzles that will give you momentary pause which is fun. There are a lot of fun Easter eggs. The game physics are VERY realistic (Cheese wheels anyone?). The graphics are great (tho often under utilized) and the world was crafted with extreme detail. In addition the NPC and Monster AI and ambient behavior is richly detailed which makes it easy to immerse yourself into your roll until one of its shortcomings snap you back out.
Normally I'd just sit and read threads like this, but I'm going to contribute my two cents because this is one of the first productive "Skyrim is not in fact Jesus: here is why" threads.
Let's first turn our attentions to Combat. Is it brilliant? in short, no. But don't condemn it just yet.
Coming from Oblivion, this combat is like chocolate ice cream with bananas in it, on a hot summer day. The combat animations are actually smooth, and although the animations for the rest of the game aren't ideal, they're not game breakingly bad either like you all seem to imply. You decree: "I'm not a shallow gamer! I don't care about visuals!" and yet get caught up in the "Bethesda's animations are so 2003, this game sucks".
What I'm meaning to say here is that it's a vast improvement over Oblivion and, at the end of the day, that is still progress. Personally I think Skyrim's combat is good enough to enjoy the game, if you don't pay too much attention to it. Just let it exist in its form like you should and stop analysing it with so much scrutiny, and perhaps your issues with it will seem redundant.
Magic: Now don't get me wrong; I was never the type to play a mage in Oblivion, so I never appreciated how well the magic worked in the game until I played through it again recently when I lent Skyrim to a friend. It's the purpose, not the graphical elements that make it special. In Oblivion, I constantly relied on almost all of my spells to keep me protected, healed, alive and well. Magic, in Skyrim, seems so redundant in comparison because you only really need four or five spells to make it through any given set piece in the game. Let me clarify;
Your most powerful destruction spell, your most powerful healing spell, one or two from the other categories (if you're feeling creative, that is!) and you're done. Even as a mage. It's a number cruncher and when it comes down to it, you will only ever need those two spells. Everything else seems pointless in productivity value because they're only there for extra parts. Take magelight for example. It's pretty, and it's useful too, but the torch is also just as useful and that's there from the get go.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say the other spells are pointless because they're not, they're useful, creative, fun, and good for roleplaying if you wish to do so. However what I am saying is that the way the game is makes them seem pointless and redundant.
I'm not sure if what I said just then was entirely clear, so if you want something cleared up just quote me and I'll do my best.
Roleplaying/Overall character experience: When I see that so many other people say it lacks focus, I can't exaggerate how much I agree with you. Every quest seems like something you're doing for a reward rather than interest or compassion. (One exception that springs to mind is the quest for the 3 parts of the broken amulet, which I did not because of the reward at the end which I didn't even think about, but interest in the plot in regards to what happened to who and why, and the baddies that might be guarding this powerful amulet). For example Ysolda's mammoth tusks chore was something I initially wanted to do because I took a liking to her, but after about 5 seconds I realised it would come with a bit of training as a reward, and Ysolda would forget about me. The game seems to either make the person completely forget I just did them a massive favour by saving their life/family/gold/treasured heirloom or just not stop going on about it (I'm looking at you, Lucien), and that is just so immersion breaking.
I think someone above mentioned that you get no recognition, even though you're basically high king of Skyrim, Dragonborn and literally savior of the world. People still send you after their lost bread without any sort of nod to your level of fame/infamy. If I were to have one wish, it would be that there would be a character scale of, say, hate/dislike/neutral/unknown/like/really like/love and have 6 different ways that the conversations could go, depending on that scale.
(Yes I know this will never happen due to the massive time and effort that would have to be put in to making it happen, but it's just a suggestion)
Oh, and it's just silly that the basically all pro-nord Stormcloaks would recruit my High Elf character. Or that people would insult the high elves as scum in front of my dude who would cut their heads off in one slice. It's tricky to write around that, but it broke my experience, again.
As for how easy the game is to glide through unaided, I thought Oblivion was far superior in the way that I finished the game as I wanted to without having to check uesp wiki once. In Skyrim, I'm finding myself having to google how to get married and how and where to buy houses. You can cry that this is just my general ignorance to the game and that I should "find out for myself in the game because it's part of the immersion" or whatever, but it's a sad thing for me because it really illustrates how fuzzy the directions in the game are. What happened to being able to ask the Count or Countess how to do pretty much everything in the town, without being out of character?
General nitpicks: -The map is blurry and fuzzy and hard to read, there's no way of seeing the roads or possible routes
-the interface and menu system is terrible on console and even worse on PC
-while enchanting and smithing are brilliantly included, the ability to craft all the armours eats up your perks and so they take serious dedication
-Dogs are incredibly useful, but are annoying. Why design them to bark literally every 10 seconds or so?
-There is no real character to the characters. Don't know what I mean? Well, remember that crazy guy in Skingrad from Oblivion who was paranoid? or the Adoring fan? What about the redguard from the arena? Vincent from the DB, or the orc that hated stealth? The orc female who wanted to be a knight? yeah. Now try and remember characters from Skyrim that are in your mind because of their characters and dialogue rather than because you've seen them a million times.
-books take too long to open. yeah, I'm impatient, but I'm nitpicking.
-I can't tell the difference between locations in Skyrim. There' either clear tundra (with snow), snow (with snow), mountains (with snow) or ocean (with snow). In the concept art for the game the tundra were stunningly green and blue, and yet they look so bland in the finished game. Towns don't register as having their own identity with me, and I can barely tell where I am without having been there at least 5 times before.
So there: massive, massive rant. Anyone that can be bothered reading that can ask me for clarifications etc, but I needed to get it off my chest. (and to think that only scratches the surface of my opinions on the game)
Let's first turn our attentions to Combat. Is it brilliant? in short, no. But don't condemn it just yet.
Coming from Oblivion, this combat is like chocolate ice cream with bananas in it, on a hot summer day. The combat animations are actually smooth, and although the animations for the rest of the game aren't ideal, they're not game breakingly bad either like you all seem to imply. You decree: "I'm not a shallow gamer! I don't care about visuals!" and yet get caught up in the "Bethesda's animations are so 2003, this game sucks".
What I'm meaning to say here is that it's a vast improvement over Oblivion and, at the end of the day, that is still progress. Personally I think Skyrim's combat is good enough to enjoy the game, if you don't pay too much attention to it. Just let it exist in its form like you should and stop analysing it with so much scrutiny, and perhaps your issues with it will seem redundant.
Magic: Now don't get me wrong; I was never the type to play a mage in Oblivion, so I never appreciated how well the magic worked in the game until I played through it again recently when I lent Skyrim to a friend. It's the purpose, not the graphical elements that make it special. In Oblivion, I constantly relied on almost all of my spells to keep me protected, healed, alive and well. Magic, in Skyrim, seems so redundant in comparison because you only really need four or five spells to make it through any given set piece in the game. Let me clarify;
Your most powerful destruction spell, your most powerful healing spell, one or two from the other categories (if you're feeling creative, that is!) and you're done. Even as a mage. It's a number cruncher and when it comes down to it, you will only ever need those two spells. Everything else seems pointless in productivity value because they're only there for extra parts. Take magelight for example. It's pretty, and it's useful too, but the torch is also just as useful and that's there from the get go.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say the other spells are pointless because they're not, they're useful, creative, fun, and good for roleplaying if you wish to do so. However what I am saying is that the way the game is makes them seem pointless and redundant.
I'm not sure if what I said just then was entirely clear, so if you want something cleared up just quote me and I'll do my best.
Roleplaying/Overall character experience: When I see that so many other people say it lacks focus, I can't exaggerate how much I agree with you. Every quest seems like something you're doing for a reward rather than interest or compassion. (One exception that springs to mind is the quest for the 3 parts of the broken amulet, which I did not because of the reward at the end which I didn't even think about, but interest in the plot in regards to what happened to who and why, and the baddies that might be guarding this powerful amulet). For example Ysolda's mammoth tusks chore was something I initially wanted to do because I took a liking to her, but after about 5 seconds I realised it would come with a bit of training as a reward, and Ysolda would forget about me. The game seems to either make the person completely forget I just did them a massive favour by saving their life/family/gold/treasured heirloom or just not stop going on about it (I'm looking at you, Lucien), and that is just so immersion breaking.
I think someone above mentioned that you get no recognition, even though you're basically high king of Skyrim, Dragonborn and literally savior of the world. People still send you after their lost bread without any sort of nod to your level of fame/infamy. If I were to have one wish, it would be that there would be a character scale of, say, hate/dislike/neutral/unknown/like/really like/love and have 6 different ways that the conversations could go, depending on that scale.
(Yes I know this will never happen due to the massive time and effort that would have to be put in to making it happen, but it's just a suggestion)
Oh, and it's just silly that the basically all pro-nord Stormcloaks would recruit my High Elf character. Or that people would insult the high elves as scum in front of my dude who would cut their heads off in one slice. It's tricky to write around that, but it broke my experience, again.
As for how easy the game is to glide through unaided, I thought Oblivion was far superior in the way that I finished the game as I wanted to without having to check uesp wiki once. In Skyrim, I'm finding myself having to google how to get married and how and where to buy houses. You can cry that this is just my general ignorance to the game and that I should "find out for myself in the game because it's part of the immersion" or whatever, but it's a sad thing for me because it really illustrates how fuzzy the directions in the game are. What happened to being able to ask the Count or Countess how to do pretty much everything in the town, without being out of character?
General nitpicks: -The map is blurry and fuzzy and hard to read, there's no way of seeing the roads or possible routes
-the interface and menu system is terrible on console and even worse on PC
-while enchanting and smithing are brilliantly included, the ability to craft all the armours eats up your perks and so they take serious dedication
-Dogs are incredibly useful, but are annoying. Why design them to bark literally every 10 seconds or so?
-There is no real character to the characters. Don't know what I mean? Well, remember that crazy guy in Skingrad from Oblivion who was paranoid? or the Adoring fan? What about the redguard from the arena? Vincent from the DB, or the orc that hated stealth? The orc female who wanted to be a knight? yeah. Now try and remember characters from Skyrim that are in your mind because of their characters and dialogue rather than because you've seen them a million times.
-books take too long to open. yeah, I'm impatient, but I'm nitpicking.
-I can't tell the difference between locations in Skyrim. There' either clear tundra (with snow), snow (with snow), mountains (with snow) or ocean (with snow). In the concept art for the game the tundra were stunningly green and blue, and yet they look so bland in the finished game. Towns don't register as having their own identity with me, and I can barely tell where I am without having been there at least 5 times before.
So there: massive, massive rant. Anyone that can be bothered reading that can ask me for clarifications etc, but I needed to get it off my chest. (and to think that only scratches the surface of my opinions on the game)