I don't think "can you please have a more respectful version of my god" equals "forcing BS down people's throats". Also since the developer used the Hindu god isn't it kind of hypocritical to accuse them of shoving BS down their throats when they basically jumped in the pile of BS in the first place?Tanis said:You're free to piss and moan but the moment you try and force your BS on someone because 'it offends you', you've crossed a line.saintdane05 said:
-But, hey, at least these guys aren't firebombing McDonald's over a cartoon, right?
Freedom of speech means tolerating the BAD stuff with the good.
Not JUST to protect your right to be stupid.
FURTHERMORE:
Religious groups have SHOWN that if you give them an inch they'll try taking a mile.
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I see where the Hindus are coming from and as unfair as we see it, we need to respect other people. As a Christian I would not be upset if Jesus was a character but some would. In short we need to respect others because being a jerk is no fun.
*hides behind flame shield*
*hides behind flame shield*
That's my question as well. Western and Eastern cultures have been using the Veda flippantly for years now. So my question is what has prompted the sudden surge of action from the Hindu side of things? A desire to be taken serious in the mainstream? Despite Hinduism's large numbers, it's still seen as 'niche religion' in many places. Maybe it's just the desire to be heard, to be acknowledged. And in an increasingly negative world, the only way to succeed is to start up trouble. Or who's to say Hindus haven't always been annoyed with things like Persona and Final Fantasy, and now they're finally at their breaking point.cynicalsaint1 said:
It's a mystery.
That's... actually a pretty legitimate question. Heh. Maybe that can be the compromise.Samurai Silhouette said:
"Right. We'll take out your freaky Indiana Jones shit from the game, but you have to plug this. -Constantly-. For real, if we don't break even in 24 hours from you, next game will have Jesus power up by punching cows."
"But most of the people in my country don't even have working computers at home!"
"Look. Whatever. Just get those weirdos on college campuses to pass out these cards."
"... You mean Hare Krishnas? But they're not the same as Hindus! And I'm just an overseas-"
"Look, I don't watch anime dude. Pimp the game or get out."
Someone who respects other human beings' beliefs! Get 'em!Evil Smurf said:
1) Not really sure if it counts as a 'doctrine'.saintdane05 said:
2) Am I asking you to DO AS I SAY OR ELSE? Nope.
I'm simply saying that you're free to have your freedom OF religion while I'm just as free to have my freedom FROM religion.
3) Also, if I might be so bold, and a tad crude, I am no longer part of an organization/group with a history of bigotry, oppression, anti-science/progress, misogyny, etc.
This tends to make me feel a little better about myself.
Neither am I. I am part of what is called "Reform Judaism."Tanis said:
The service is led by a woman. She is a very nice person. We talk often.
Not only are gays allowed, but our Cantor has actively talked about gay rights and how they will benifit us all.
We often have donated to HIV and Cancer research societies.
We allow people of all kinds in. I remember meeting a Jehovah's Witness at our temple. Nobody cared that she didn't use the same prayers.
Next time, try doing research before throwing insults around.
QUOTE
That's my question as well. Western and Eastern cultures have been using the Veda flippantly for years now. So my question is what has prompted the sudden surge of action from the Hindu side of things? A desire to be taken serious in the mainstream? Despite Hinduism's large numbers, it's still seen as 'niche religion' in many places. Maybe it's just the desire to be heard, to be acknowledged. And in an increasingly negative world, the only way to succeed is to start up trouble. Or who's to say Hindus haven't always been annoyed with things like Persona and Final Fantasy, and now they're finally at their breaking point.
It's a mystery.
END QUOTE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have not played Final fantasy, so i could be missing the point a bit, but let me try to answer.
Drawing inspiration, referencing, similarities to Hindu God's/scriptures is pretty much acceptable-or any religion/God. Even using a specific God can be gotten away with if done tastefully. People always complain, sometimes its warranted but sometimes it's not.
A beat-em up where only one mainstream religion is used and said God is punched in the face repeatedly is not acceptable. I think that's where Hindu's draw the line. It's not a random desire to be acknowledged all of a sudden
That's my question as well. Western and Eastern cultures have been using the Veda flippantly for years now. So my question is what has prompted the sudden surge of action from the Hindu side of things? A desire to be taken serious in the mainstream? Despite Hinduism's large numbers, it's still seen as 'niche religion' in many places. Maybe it's just the desire to be heard, to be acknowledged. And in an increasingly negative world, the only way to succeed is to start up trouble. Or who's to say Hindus haven't always been annoyed with things like Persona and Final Fantasy, and now they're finally at their breaking point.
It's a mystery.
END QUOTE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have not played Final fantasy, so i could be missing the point a bit, but let me try to answer.
Drawing inspiration, referencing, similarities to Hindu God's/scriptures is pretty much acceptable-or any religion/God. Even using a specific God can be gotten away with if done tastefully. People always complain, sometimes its warranted but sometimes it's not.
A beat-em up where only one mainstream religion is used and said God is punched in the face repeatedly is not acceptable. I think that's where Hindu's draw the line. It's not a random desire to be acknowledged all of a sudden
Tanis said:So, by your line of reason:
If you have any sort of spiritual faith at all, you are an evil bigot who is dooming us all.
No, but you could try looking looking up many different types of religion before insulting billions of people.Tanis said:2) That kind of line only works if you CAN do research.
-What? Was I suppose to goggle your username and find a 'Reformed Jews R Us' page?
What his post was suggesting is that I never mention my religion. I'm sorry, but it is part of my culture.bloodmage2 said:atheism!=secularismsaintdane05 said:Tanis said:You're free to piss and moan but the moment you try and force your BS on someone because 'it offends you', you've crossed a line.saintdane05 said:
-But, hey, at least these guys aren't firebombing McDonald's over a cartoon, right?
Freedom of speech means tolerating the BAD stuff with the good.
Not JUST to protect your right to be stupid.
FURTHERMORE:
Religious groups have SHOWN that if you give them an inch they'll try taking a mile.
Right now, aren't you shoving your doctrine of non religion down my throat?
get it right.
one says there is no god.
the other says we don't care if there is a god, you have no business telling anyone else what to do based on your view of that topic.
please research which is which and then reply.
strawman harder, please.
I have never told anyone what they should or shouldn't think.
[/quote]
But the thing is, this is the same guy who complained when Durga's name was used in Asura's Wrath, and she was only a bit character. It's clearly something to do with 'new management', so to speak.[/quote]
I see what your getting at.... this 'council' made silly complaints in the past so this complaint holds less water then it would of otherwise.
It's a 'shoot the messenger' flex isn't it. Someone's complaining so if we discredit them then we discredit their complaint valid or not.
I know your not doing it on purpose. It's just not a productive line of thinking. This specific complaint should be treated independently.
But the thing is, this is the same guy who complained when Durga's name was used in Asura's Wrath, and she was only a bit character. It's clearly something to do with 'new management', so to speak.[/quote]
I see what your getting at.... this 'council' made silly complaints in the past so this complaint holds less water then it would of otherwise.
It's a 'shoot the messenger' flex isn't it. Someone's complaining so if we discredit them then we discredit their complaint valid or not.
I know your not doing it on purpose. It's just not a productive line of thinking. This specific complaint should be treated independently.
I'm pretty sure Hi-Rez knew exactly what kind of publicity they would get for using current religious figures. Their reasons for not using Christian figures are simple - most were human and peaceful in nature. Is Jesus ever depicted anywhere wielding a sword in one hand and a person's head in another? (I mean legitimately, not on some NRA redneck website) The answer - no. This would make his combat abilities limited to healing the sick and turning the other cheek, maybe raining fish upon his enemies. Kali is an ideal character to build a violent videogame around. Weapons? check. Fiery wrath? check. Holding the head of one foe while trampling the other under foot? Check and check. Body of female olympic boxing contender? check. if nothing else, maybe Hi-Rez should give her a more manly figure since most of her paintings depict her as being more massive than shapely.
But the thing is, this is the same guy who complained when Durga's name was used in Asura's Wrath, and she was only a bit character. It's clearly something to do with 'new management', so to speak.[/quote]
I see what your getting at.... this 'council' made silly complaints in the past so this complaint holds less water then it would of otherwise.
It's a 'shoot the messenger' flex isn't it. Someone's complaining so if we discredit them then we discredit their complaint valid or not.
I know your not doing it on purpose. It's just not a productive line of thinking. This specific complaint should be treated independently.[/quote]
It's really not that, honestly. I don't object. I can see where the man's coming from and I respect his right to speak out as such. But my question is still, why now? There's been plenty of name usage in the past. I'm just objectively curious as to the sudden activism.
...
Kali is the goddess of Metal.
I see what your getting at.... this 'council' made silly complaints in the past so this complaint holds less water then it would of otherwise.
It's a 'shoot the messenger' flex isn't it. Someone's complaining so if we discredit them then we discredit their complaint valid or not.
I know your not doing it on purpose. It's just not a productive line of thinking. This specific complaint should be treated independently.[/quote]
It's really not that, honestly. I don't object. I can see where the man's coming from and I respect his right to speak out as such. But my question is still, why now? There's been plenty of name usage in the past. I'm just objectively curious as to the sudden activism.
Don't forget the necklace made out of children's skulls.algalon said:
...
Kali is the goddess of Metal.
I still don't see how it "trivializes" their religion by depicting the gods in a video game. If that's the case how come they haven't been trying to boycott Shiva from FF games?
Shiva is a female in those games and yet is a male in the Hindu faith. You'd think that would offend them more, changing the gender of one of their gods.
Shiva is a female in those games and yet is a male in the Hindu faith. You'd think that would offend them more, changing the gender of one of their gods.
bloodmage2 said:What is post was suggesting, if you are referring to the image, is that its fine you have a religion, and its okay to talk about it, but don't go about thinking its most god damned important thing in the world. You ought not get special treatment because you think there is an invisible fairy in the sky, and neither should the hindu's. Plenty of things offend me, but i don't go about demanding they be taken down. Religion itself offends me, but i don't go picketing churches, synagogues, or mosques. i don't go about ordering everyone to agree with me, i will debate people on the matter if they so desire, but i don't demand anything. what the hindu group is doing here, is demanding preferential treatment because of their beliefs, that because they think that their gods are the most important fucking thing on this earth, then anyone who would not show their preferred level of 'respect' is to be harassed until they comply with their deranged set of evidence-free beliefs. yes, we are upset about this, not because we are not being given preferential treatment as atheists, but because as secularists, we disagree with ANYBODY getting preferential treatment.saintdane05 said:What his post was suggesting is that I never mention my religion. I'm sorry, but it is part of my culture.bloodmage2 said:atheism!=secularismsaintdane05 said:Tanis said:You're free to piss and moan but the moment you try and force your BS on someone because 'it offends you', you've crossed a line.saintdane05 said:
-But, hey, at least these guys aren't firebombing McDonald's over a cartoon, right?
Freedom of speech means tolerating the BAD stuff with the good.
Not JUST to protect your right to be stupid.
FURTHERMORE:
Religious groups have SHOWN that if you give them an inch they'll try taking a mile.
Right now, aren't you shoving your doctrine of non religion down my throat?
get it right.
one says there is no god.
the other says we don't care if there is a god, you have no business telling anyone else what to do based on your view of that topic.
please research which is which and then reply.
strawman harder, please.
I have never told anyone what they should or shouldn't think.
you can have your religion, but you may not tell anyone what to say or do because of it, regardless of how it 'offends' you. you may not be demanding hi-res take down these images, or remove these characters, but you are defending the people that are, and if you don't agree with them, it is your own stupid fault for appearing to agree with them.
Nobody was asking for "Special Treatment." The people stated that they were offended by the way a piece of their religion was presented.
Hi-Rez responded by removing her from the ads. That was it.
Can we stop talking about this now? I'm tired and want to do something silly.
So, have some Tim Burton.
<youtube=RCQxl4Ae84w>
Yay, derailing threads is fun!
Yeah...and?saintdane05 said:
See, the thing is...
I'm sure, somewhere out there in space and time, there's an honest lawyer and non-militant, homosexual, 1/4 Jewish, 1/4 Mexican, 1/4 black, 1/4 German, KKK member.
Yes, 'peaceful religions' exist, but there's not NEARLY has a prevalent as the not-so-peaceful types.
Even with the 'peaceful religions'...well, they tend mostly to be that way because they IGNORE most of the horrid crap in their books.
Point is...
Feel free to have your religion, enjoy it all you like, have a party every weekend with your home boiz and fry up some bac...hamburgers.
Just don't expect me, or anyone else with a backbone, to kneel before your demands because you think your fan club deserves respect just because of its age.
A secular society is the best society for all those who seek freedom of/from speech, religion, and music.
Does Smite have, or plan to have, the Great and Powerful Flying Spaghetti Monster (Blessed be His name and all His Noodly Appendages forever, RAmen)?
That should be the next God they implement if they haven't yet done so.
That should be the next God they implement if they haven't yet done so.
Even if I was remotely religious I wouldn't care if my god were depicted like this, people with extreme religious anal-retentiveness towards how their belief is portrayed by others need to just chill the fuck out. Hasn't their been comical depictions of the christain god among others for many years now, this isn't any different yet cause its a game apparently the level of "trivializing" is so much more egregious.