Snipers get a bad rap in gaming?

[TheAceTheOne]

I actually disagree, who's to say the "fun" is only there with direct interaction?

As you caught later, it's the "snipee" (I'm gonna trademark that ) who doesn't have any interaction in this, so no fun.

and yes, you HAVE to agree with me *aimes crossbow* or else >

I think not

Sniping in TF2's ok... but I actually DO prefer the spy.

Crap... you got me there.... oh wait >

Boom goes the dynamite.

 

[Engarde]

I am not a big fan of them, though the only shooter I really play nowdays is TF2. And in that, they are not designed to capture objectives. They do not push carts well, they do not capture points well, they do not capture intelligence well. Especially in a slower shooter like TF2, getting instant killed really can be a downer. Wether you just got your ubercharge, or your eyelander filled, and someone on the other side of the map is charged.....and shoots you in the foot. There goes all that effort. Not to mention I have lost track of the times they sit there staring down the scope while that cart crawling with enemy soldiers happily rolls on to victory....

 

[RobCoxxy]

In games like Battlefield 2, I'm a sniper 40% of the time. Huge open maps are totally fair game for sniping, because you can easily be picked off.

However, smaller mapped games (MW2) it just feels a little cheap. Take the Rooftop multiplayer map, as soon as that round starts, snipers have a clear view of the enemy spawnpoint. As soon as you leave the building (or just get near a window) you get cut down.

 

[Cowabungaa]

inb4: Sniping's a good job, mate.

The problem with sniping is, like Yahtzee said, the game you're playing is a point/click adventure where the only action is "Use Gun On Man".

There's rarely any interaction between sniper and snipee, which is where the "fun" comes from. That's where the bad rap comes.

The fun, for me, comes from pulling off that horribly difficult but flawless shot. A clean kill with a single shot feels so very satisfying. HK-47 puts it perfectly well:

Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope... Love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticule, and together, achieving a singular purpose against statistically long odds.

[sub][sub]And of course the rage of the snipee, gnahgnahgnah.[/sub][/sub]

Notable games in this are TF2 for speed-sniping (as in shooting high-speed targets, headshotting a Scout while he's in mid-air or dodging = marvellous) and BC2 for long-distance kills.

Here's something I tell anyone who complains of camping snipers:A good sniper won't camp. A good sniper will follow the rule of "Shoot, then relocate." And even if they don't relocate:A litttle creative thinking (I.E:not charging headlong along the same path you just took, thus giving the sniper another easy kill) will get you to the sniper. And then the sniper is screwed.

Not to mention smoke grenades, the tool against silly camping snipers. They're very underrated.

 

[ActionDan]

Snipers are fine. The only thing that annoys me on TF2 espeically is where there are 6 or more snipers on a team of 16, and none of them are good, and we are getting out asses kicked because there isn't enough offense and defense going on.

 

[TheAceTheOne]

inb4: Sniping's a good job, mate.

The problem with sniping is, like Yahtzee said, the game you're playing is a point/click adventure where the only action is "Use Gun On Man".

There's rarely any interaction between sniper and snipee, which is where the "fun" comes from. That's where the bad rap comes.

The fun, for me, comes from pulling off that horribly difficult but flawless shot. A clean kill with a single shot feels so very satisfying. HK-47 puts it perfectly well:

Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope... Love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticule, and together, achieving a singular purpose against statistically long odds.

[sub][sub]And of course the rage of the snipee, gnahgnahgnah.[/sub][/sub]

Notable games in this are TF2 for speed-sniping (as in shooting high-speed targets) and BC2 for long-distance kills.

Who would have guessed that an assassin droid would know anything about "love"? That was one of my favorite lines in the entire game, and it's true both for love AND for sniping.

 

[WilchBorisRyan]

My main issue with sniping isn't that they camp, or anything like that, it's just that, this is mainly just me, but if you're a sniper, you're ideally going to be too far away from your target for them to be able to actually fight back, and this is where I have an issue. What's the point of killing people online for fun, if there's no challenge?

This is a good point but I would argue that adding snipers to a game adds another demension to the playing experience. If you know a sniper is out there watching you you're going to pick your cover, plan your movements strategicly, perhaps even draw the sniper's fire while someone gets into a vantage point so they can take the sniper out - or even jus staying alive long enough so you can pinpoint the sniper's position and take him out yourself. I've had some really fun times when opposing snipers.

I see where you're comming from, and I wish things were like that in online FPS games, but I have very VERY rarely seen a game where people were that strategic or team based, save from maybe Team Fortress 2. Which particular game were you talking about?

I'm playing quite a bit of BF:BC2 at the moment so that's the game I had in mind. I think it's a good sniping game, probably because I think the levels were created with snipers in mind, giving them few places to really exploit their edge, (good positions equalling easily being spotted, covered positions giving you very little area coverage.) TF2 is another game which takes the impact of Snipers and what they do seriously and both still lets Snipers keep their combat edge but stops at making it too easy for them, never really giving them the ideal situation to sit in a corner and blat away for hours on end.

I played BFBC2 a little while ago, and I found it a lot of fun, and I used to have The Orange Box on the Xbox, but I lost it. I downloaded it again on PC but for some reason I can't play TF2, the start up box appears, but then it disappears, and nothing happens. Do you know what's up with that? If you do, could you help me solve it, then we could play on TF2 in a snipers only match, which would be quite interesting. Otherwise I think I might just have to repurchase it on the Xbox.

 

[darkknight9]

From a literal/historical perspective:
Due to the unexpected aspect of sniper fire, high lethality of aimed shots and frustration at the inability to locate and attack snipers, sniper tactics have a significant effect on morale. Extensive use of sniper tactics can be used as a psychological strategy in order to induce constant stress in opposing forces.

One may note that by many aspects (constant threat, high "per event" lethality, inability to strike back), the psychological impact imposed by snipers is quite similar to those of landmines, booby-traps, and IEDs.

Historically, captured snipers are often summarily executed. This happened during World War I and also during World War II. As a result, if a sniper is in imminent danger of capture, he may discard any items which might indicate his status as a sniper. The risk of captured snipers being summarily executed is explicitly referred to in Chapter 6 of US Army doctrine document FM 3-060.11 entitled 'SNIPER AND COUNTERSNIPER TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES':

Historically, units that suffered heavy and continual casualties from urban sniper fire and were frustrated by their inability to strike back effectively often have become enraged. Such units may overreact and violate the laws of land warfare concerning the treatment of captured snipers. This tendency is magnified if the unit has been under the intense stress of urban combat for an extended time. It is vital that commanders and leaders at all levels understand the law of land warfare and also understand the psychological pressures of urban warfare. It requires strong leadership and great moral strength to prevent soldiers from releasing their anger and frustration on captured snipers or civilians suspected of sniping at them.

The negative reputation of snipers can be traced back to the American Revolution, when American "Marksmen" would intentionally target British officers, an act considered uncivilized by the British Army at the time (this reputation would be cemented during the Battle of Saratoga, when Benedict Arnold allegedly ordered his marksmen to target British General Simon Fraser, an act that would win the battle and French support).

Just sayin... snipers can rattle people.

 

[RadiusXd]

what i hate is in most fps it seems that snipers get the one hit kills, supposedly this is for realism, but if you get shot buy any bullet from pretty much any gun your screwed.

then again, it might be with the one hit kill and me being an aussie, perhaps the ping means i just don't have a chance to locate or attack snipers before they do so to me.

 

[inFAMOUSCowZ]

the problem i have is when snipers are too strong. Like on CoD most snipers kill in one hit, and on top of it any can snipe since its so easy. So if you see someone boom there dead. But on Halo, you actually have a chance to run away since 1. it takes two shots unless its a head shot, and 2. theres usally cover around you. But i will say i like sniping in th Medal of Honor beta, since its harder then what your use to.

 

[DigitalSushi]

I dislike other Snipers in KillZone 2, its quite rare to get one that does what he's supposed to and defend target zones, instead they just shoot other snipers because chances are they are standing still to remain invisible.

In one game the opposing team had six snipers taking pot shots at the opposing teams sniper (me), the game was over very quickly because it allowed us to get all objectives since they weren't defending them.

 

[TheAceTheOne]

From a literal/historical perspective:
Due to the unexpected aspect of sniper fire, high lethality of aimed shots and frustration at the inability to locate and attack snipers, sniper tactics have a significant effect on morale. Extensive use of sniper tactics can be used as a psychological strategy in order to induce constant stress in opposing forces.

One may note that by many aspects (constant threat, high "per event" lethality, inability to strike back), the psychological impact imposed by snipers is quite similar to those of landmines, booby-traps, and IEDs.

Historically, captured snipers are often summarily executed. This happened during World War I and also during World War II. As a result, if a sniper is in imminent danger of capture, he may discard any items which might indicate his status as a sniper. The risk of captured snipers being summarily executed is explicitly referred to in Chapter 6 of US Army doctrine document FM 3-060.11 entitled 'SNIPER AND COUNTERSNIPER TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES':

Historically, units that suffered heavy and continual casualties from urban sniper fire and were frustrated by their inability to strike back effectively often have become enraged. Such units may overreact and violate the laws of land warfare concerning the treatment of captured snipers. This tendency is magnified if the unit has been under the intense stress of urban combat for an extended time. It is vital that commanders and leaders at all levels understand the law of land warfare and also understand the psychological pressures of urban warfare. It requires strong leadership and great moral strength to prevent soldiers from releasing their anger and frustration on captured snipers or civilians suspected of sniping at them.

The negative reputation of snipers can be traced back to the American Revolution, when American "Marksmen" would intentionally target British officers, an act considered uncivilized by the British Army at the time (this reputation would be cemented during the Battle of Saratoga, when Benedict Arnold allegedly ordered his marksmen to target British General Simon Fraser, an act that would win the battle and French support).

Just sayin... snipers can rattle people.

I never knew a lot of that.

 

[RadiusXd]

From a literal/historical perspective:
Due to the unexpected aspect of sniper fire, high lethality of aimed shots and frustration at the inability to locate and attack snipers, sniper tactics have a significant effect on morale. Extensive use of sniper tactics can be used as a psychological strategy in order to induce constant stress in opposing forces.

One may note that by many aspects (constant threat, high "per event" lethality, inability to strike back), the psychological impact imposed by snipers is quite similar to those of landmines, booby-traps, and IEDs.

Historically, captured snipers are often summarily executed. This happened during World War I and also during World War II. As a result, if a sniper is in imminent danger of capture, he may discard any items which might indicate his status as a sniper. The risk of captured snipers being summarily executed is explicitly referred to in Chapter 6 of US Army doctrine document FM 3-060.11 entitled 'SNIPER AND COUNTERSNIPER TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES':

Historically, units that suffered heavy and continual casualties from urban sniper fire and were frustrated by their inability to strike back effectively often have become enraged. Such units may overreact and violate the laws of land warfare concerning the treatment of captured snipers. This tendency is magnified if the unit has been under the intense stress of urban combat for an extended time. It is vital that commanders and leaders at all levels understand the law of land warfare and also understand the psychological pressures of urban warfare. It requires strong leadership and great moral strength to prevent soldiers from releasing their anger and frustration on captured snipers or civilians suspected of sniping at them.

The negative reputation of snipers can be traced back to the American Revolution, when American "Marksmen" would intentionally target British officers, an act considered uncivilized by the British Army at the time (this reputation would be cemented during the Battle of Saratoga, when Benedict Arnold allegedly ordered his marksmen to target British General Simon Fraser, an act that would win the battle and French support).

Just sayin... snipers can rattle people.

I never knew a lot of that.

in ww1 it was a similar situation with machine gun operators.

 

[secretsantaone]

The problem people have with snipers is:

A. In team based games, they usually contribute very little, solely focused on killing the opposition rather than helping out.

B: Being killed by a sniper is infuriating, because you were killed in one shot from far away and thus were unable to react or prevent it.

C: Snipers appeal to the mindset of the 14 year olds who think that they have L33t sk1llz. Hence you get kids running about not being team players and screaming about how they owned you with a quickscope rather than capping a point.

 

[Premonition]

I don't see what people's problem is.

Sniping's hardly easy, and they're pretty easy to avoid unless they're really good or you just stand in the same place for no reason.

Agreed.

It's easy to avoid a sniper if you're quick. And sniping itself is a fairly challenging job as well.

 

[Ze_Reaper_Of_Zeath]

In BFBC2, most Snipers are shit, and don't help....so they ussually take a few paragraphs of bad language from the entire team and me......I play sniper, but I actually MOVE UP, camp flags, throw motion sensors near flags, and do shit like that.....hell most snipers are too lazy to even move and mortar a flag that is being taken....

 

[Vrach]

inb4: Sniping's a good job, mate.

I think his mate saw me. *bang bang* yes, yes he did.

OT: They only dislike snipers so much because its usually snipers who put them down. With a normal player, you can easily find them and you can easily track them. With a good sniper, you're not even gonna see them and thats the whole point. To be hidden and to wait for the target to get come into range.

This.

Sniping's my kind of game, you call sniping "point and click with use gun on man", fine, so what exactly do you get otherwise in an FPS? "Click to move, keep pointed, keep clicking"? Much more exciting I'm sure... and I'm sure it takes a lot more skill to point any machine gun/shotgun at someone's upper torso and hold/click the first mouse button until the combat's done than to hit a moving target from far away when your reticule's as big as your target's head/torso.

As for the "they're in every single game"... are you seriously calling that an argument?
I'm pretty sure most FPSs (and in fact a lot of the other games) don't go around making games without machine guns, shotguns and sidearms... what exactly's the difference?

Also, a sniper plays on the fact he's got the first shot. And that's really all he has (assuming you know how to play against one), once he's taken it, if you're not dead (and unless he's done a headshot you're usually not, otherwise he's probably using a bolt-action rifle that's a handicap in itself), you're likely to have a good idea where he is. And if you move all the time properly, he's gonna have a problem landing a hit on you before you get into close range where he'll be useless (unless you wanna whine about MW2 quickscoping, in which case I'm out of the discussion cause I just don't play that in MP and I definitely wouldn't refer to it as 'sniping')

 

[captaincabbage]

Eh, whatever. I get the kills, they can complain all they want, won't do a thing.

Except kick you XD

No shit I was kicked from a game of L4D2 for accedentially shooting a player hunter during a zombie rush. I was firing in all directions and one lucky bullet hit him in the head. 'Twill go down as both my most lucky and unlucky gaming moment ever.

OT: I don't see what the big deal is with snipers in games. I'm definitely not skilled enough to be a sniper in a games, but I've never had a problem with them really.

 

[NoseDigger]

If they're useless I will call them out on it. For example, BC2 Squad Rush. I had two snipers, camping where they couldn't see the objective and all they did was camp and occasionally get the odd kill, after missing him 4-5 times. It angers me greatly.

 

[Michael826]

I think that people who complain about Snipers (or any weapon really) - which are completely legit - are just trying to cover up their shortcomings. Pure & Simple. There are ways around sniping, and if you can't find them, then I'm afraid you just suck

I'm not particularly good at shooters (For consoles, at least), but I I've played enough to gauge whether or not these types of weapons are fair. They are, and if you can't get around them, then I'm afraid you're just like me. (Sorry to burst your bubble of ultimate supremacy)