So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

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PirateRose

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For every black actor, their is a dozen white actors. For every black hero there are a dozen white heroes. This does not reflect the consumer market. The reality is, white people are becoming the minority even in the United States. Our country is a melting pot of culture and race, and this country is just a portion of a world filled with many races other than white. Hollywood has even acknowledge that the Chinese consumer market is starting to take it's toll and are trying to figure out how to get more Asian actors into American made movies. They displayed these attempts with Iron Man 3 even, just look up the Chinese trailer! There are even studies suggesting white people don't watch movies or play video games as much as other races.

It is far more unrealistic to have yet another white hero, another white actor cast in the role, as opposed to having any person from any other race.

To cast a white person in the role of a character established as a person of color is wrong because white people already have a ton of white representation. You'd be taking out that one black role out to add another white role to the dozens that already exist.

Casting a black man for a character previously established as white, is fine, because we have tons of other white actors filling out white roles.

We white people are pretty secure from being oppressed and having our identities erased like we did to everyone else. Quit getting your privileged man boy dicks in a twist.
 

mitchell271

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Keep in mind that we're talking about a medium where retcons based on fan-outcry are more common than they should be (see zombie Spiderman/Superman because zombies). Not that graphic novels are inherently bad, I just think that most of the people that have an issue with it are just clinging to their fantasies a little too much.

OT: I don't care if he's black or white unless it's part of his character. If a big part of him is that he's white trash, then yes, it'd be a little difficult to do. But I don't think he is. Worse comes to worse, they can just say he's Sue's adopted brother.
 

asinann

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The only issue I see is if they leave his sister white without rewriting their relationship somehow.
 

MegaManOfNumbers

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As long as he`s a good actor I`m okay. Also, if you do that make his sister black also. That`ll be odd if that wasn`t the case.
 

Coldsnap

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I don't have any strong feelings about Johnny, but there are some very unimaginative people concerning explanations for a black Johnny and a white Sue. There really are a number of easy explanations.

A. Adopted

B. Step siblings

C. One parent is already of mixed heritage; one children gets genes for darker skin, one does not.
 

johntheescapist

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Apr 27, 2013
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I see no problem. In fact let's make Superman and other major characters non-white as well. Shit diversity never hurt anything, it only creates more interesting narratives.
 

Coach Morrison

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I know I'm late to this conversation, but if Johnny is going to be played by a black guy then I want to see Black Panther to be played by an Asian and for Colossus to be made of Copper.

I don't really care who plays him since after the first two movies I don't really want to see another and you have to do really drastic changes from the comics to anger me, but I would love to see if the outcry would be the same if a black hero was replaced with an Asian actor and if Colossus had a color change.

Actually now that I remember who that guy is wanting to play the human torch,I would actually want to see this happen. If he can do a slightly more adult version of what he did in Chronicle it might be a pretty good fit.
 

Xisin

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La Kias said:
Shadowstar38 said:
This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.
completely agree. As Tombsite said, if you change the race of Johnny you then need to change the race of Sue and if you change her race you have the future possibility of Franklin and Val to change too. The whole idea of casting is to not only cast a great actor but someone who looks the part. I wouldn't cast a black actor for a part i wrote with a white character in mind or vice versa. Its not racism its about getting the desired finished to the vision for the film.

This goes the other way too, it would be like casting Nicholas Cage as the lead in a film about Martin Luther King Jnr. Ok, sure Nick Cage might think he'd be up for it but you can hear the outcry now.

Samuel Jackson is the obvious exception to all of this but that is because he was the right actor at the right time and, more importantly, he is a fantastic actor and made the role his own. The character of Nick Fury allowed that. I don't think Johnny Storm's character does
This is a really odd post to me. If Jackson is the exception, couldn't almost any character have an exception that we'd only know about if they actually landed the part?

Fairly sure the Dr. King comparison doesn't need much debunking. Much like casting Pres. Lincoln or Malcolm X, race would be a large part of what defined that particular role. Storm seems to be much more defined by the fire.

What confuses me most by this post and several others, is having to cast his sister and her children as also black. My parents are two different races, therefore my sister and I have two different shades of skin color. My sister's children are even more of a grab bag. Standing next to each other, my family is a kaleidoscope of colors ranging from chocolate brown to light peach. That's the beauty of genetics.
 

MrBrightside919

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People should be offended that they are rebooting THE FANTASTIC FOUR, not because the human torch MIGHT be played by a black guy...
 

stabnex

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I would only go on the point of the Invisible Woman is Johnny Storms sister. And everyone knows it. If they screw with his ethnicity, they have to screw with both of them. And considering we all KNOW they're gonna dump some white, blonde, run-of-the-mill Caucasian model/actress into her role again, it is simply going to cause way more problems then it may be worth.

However, there are some VERY good examples of when a characters ethnicity has been toyed with and it has literally changed retroactively because the actor changed it massively for the better based on their acting credibility and talent. (/tips hat to Samuel L. Motherf*cking Jackson, AKA the new Nick Fury)
 

mrhappy1489

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Shadowstar38 said:
MrGalactus said:
Shadowstar38 said:
This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.
But why is it a fuck-up at all? Why does it matter?
Because Johnny is white. In every form of media he's in. What are you not understanding?
I'm sure this argument has gone on longer but seriously, get over it. These aren't real people and it's not taking place in the same continuity. This isn't a sequel to the shit Fantastic Four movies and it's not a sequel to any of the tons of comics out there. It's a reboot of the movie franchise. Seems to me that it's fair game to have the actor change ethnicity, as long as he does the part well and even then it doesn't matter that much. This is an acceptable double standard, so long as there are not a plethora of jobs for black male actors. Once the playing field is even, yeah it doesn't matter, but until then, minorities can have their double standard, because like MovieBob said, It's the only standard they've got. Plus changing ones skin tone is so fucking minimal with regards to the source material, I mean they're not making him a woman or a transexual so why the big fucking deal.
 

Shadowstar38

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mrhappy1489 said:
Shadowstar38 said:
MrGalactus said:
Shadowstar38 said:
This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.
But why is it a fuck-up at all? Why does it matter?
Because Johnny is white. In every form of media he's in. What are you not understanding?
I'm sure this argument has gone on longer but seriously, get over it. These aren't real people and it's not taking place in the same continuity. This isn't a sequel to the shit Fantastic Four movies and it's not a sequel to any of the tons of comics out there. It's a reboot of the movie franchise. Seems to me that it's fair game to have the actor change ethnicity, as long as he does the part well and even then it doesn't matter that much. This is an acceptable double standard, so long as there are not a plethora of jobs for black male actors. Once the playing field is even, yeah it doesn't matter, but until then, minorities can have their double standard, because like MovieBob said, It's the only standard they've got. Plus changing ones skin tone is so fucking minimal with regards to the source material, I mean they're not making him a woman or a transexual so why the big fucking deal.
That's the thing. Double standards suck and make the playing field uneven. I'm not a fan of the process.
 

Snowblindblitz

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Apr 30, 2011
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I have to agree with the make Sue and Johnny both black then crowd.

As for the "just say he's adopted and throw it under the rug" clearly has never been in that situation or have adopted siblings.

I have an adopted sister I love, but family dynamics are different to my other siblings, and even my relationship among them based on which parent we share.

Johnny and Sue's interactions are based on them as full-blooded siblings. You have to do some major character changes to accommodate the difference.
 

Valvy

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Apr 4, 2013
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Magenera said:
PirateRose said:
For every black actor, their is a dozen white actors. For every black hero there are a dozen white heroes. This does not reflect the consumer market. The reality is, white people are becoming the minority even in the United States. Our country is a melting pot of culture and race, and this country is just a portion of a world filled with many races other than white. Hollywood has even acknowledge that the Chinese consumer market is starting to take it's toll and are trying to figure out how to get more Asian actors into American made movies. They displayed these attempts with Iron Man 3 even, just look up the Chinese trailer! There are even studies suggesting white people don't watch movies or play video games as much as other races.

It is far more unrealistic to have yet another white hero, another white actor cast in the role, as opposed to having any person from any other race.

To cast a white person in the role of a character established as a person of color is wrong because white people already have a ton of white representation. You'd be taking out that one black role out to add another white role to the dozens that already exist.

Casting a black man for a character previously established as white, is fine, because we have tons of other white actors filling out white roles.

We white people are pretty secure from being oppressed and having our identities erased like we did to everyone else. Quit getting your privileged man boy dicks in a twist.
So basically it's not racist nor a problem as long as it is white's who is getting affected and targeted by this. But any other group and not only is there a problem but it's racist also.
Yes, in an ideal world, it would be equal to turn a black character white, as it would a white character black.
"In an ideal world, the perplexed complainers would have a point. Because in an ideal world there would be no racism now, there would have been no racism EVER. And there certainly wouldn't be centuries upon centuries of European colonialism and the intended systematic oppression, dehumanization, if not outright extermination of non-white peoples by white peoples. The poisonous legacy of which continues to shape the course of world events and day-to-day existence of all affected cultures to this day. No, in an ideal world, NONE of that would have ever happened, and thus, race-swapping a character in one direction WOULD be exactly the same as doing so in the other direction. BUT we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a ****** world, where all that stuff happened, and all the after effects still linger. And thus, yes, the quote-unquote "White Culture" losing one of the billions of viable white characters is NOT on any conceivable plane equal to taking away one of the already tiny, tiny handful of viable non-white characters. It would be swell if it was, but it isn't.

To some folks, what I'm saying here qualifies as, 'Political Correctness' Mostly because, to some folks EVERYTHING that threatens the sense of cultural privilege they don't want to admit still exists qualifies as, 'Political Correctness' Still, others might object more rationally. On the grounds that it verges on a double standard. To which I reply, 'Yes, it's a double standard.' Again, it's not an ideal world. Real world. ****** world. Double standards are damn near the only standards we have. But yeah, technically 'turning Goku white being a scandal, but turning Nick Fury into Samuel L. Jackson is kinda cool' IS a double standard. A tiny miniscule double standard. That exists as part of a broad long term cultural shift, meant to correct the long standing pervasive effects of a very, very, big cultural double standard. From the not-so-distant past. You know, that whole thing where one person was considered a person, while the other was considered property on the basis of their melanin levels. That whole thing, ringing a bell? Look, getting back to the inciting incident, the fact is, by ignoring the ethnic precedent of this ONE character, we got to see a unique performance given by a great actor. In the kind of role he otherwise probably would never have gotten to play. That's the uncomfortable truth at the heart of this. For hundreds upon hundreds of years, our culture was arranged to unfairly confer privlege and superiority on one race over all others. And one of the lasting results of that, is that both the quality and the quantity of interesting character roles available to minority actors is incredibly small. I mean, let's be blunt about this. Do you think all those really talented black actors, who keep turning up in Tyler Perry movies, WANT to be making freaking Tyler Perry movies? Probably not. But that's all Hollywood is offering them right now. Is the color-blind casting of a black Norse god, or a black Friar Tuck, or hell, maybe even a black Superman the perfect solution? No! Way, way, less than perfect. But you have to start somewhere."
 
Sep 13, 2009
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I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I'd honestly prefer if he was white. Reason being the same as why I didn't like how Aang, Katara and Sokka were white and the entire Fire Nation was Indian in The Last Airbender. So apparently by all logic I'm racist towards white people, black people and Indians. It's not the biggest deal, but I like it when a character maintains a similar appearance when they're made into a live action movie. It's like making a Spiderman movie where his costume looks like Thor's, the character's appearance becomes iconic with the character themselves, unless you have a really good reason to change it I would prefer them to resemble the source character.

The only exception I can think of to this was Michael Clark Duncan as the Kingpin. I was skeptical at first, but I can completely see why they chose him for the role. He fit the character perfectly
 

mrhappy1489

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Shadowstar38 said:
mrhappy1489 said:
Shadowstar38 said:
MrGalactus said:
Shadowstar38 said:
This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.
But why is it a fuck-up at all? Why does it matter?
Because Johnny is white. In every form of media he's in. What are you not understanding?
I'm sure this argument has gone on longer but seriously, get over it. These aren't real people and it's not taking place in the same continuity. This isn't a sequel to the shit Fantastic Four movies and it's not a sequel to any of the tons of comics out there. It's a reboot of the movie franchise. Seems to me that it's fair game to have the actor change ethnicity, as long as he does the part well and even then it doesn't matter that much. This is an acceptable double standard, so long as there are not a plethora of jobs for black male actors. Once the playing field is even, yeah it doesn't matter, but until then, minorities can have their double standard, because like MovieBob said, It's the only standard they've got. Plus changing ones skin tone is so fucking minimal with regards to the source material, I mean they're not making him a woman or a transexual so why the big fucking deal.
That's the thing. Double standards suck and make the playing field uneven. I'm not a fan of the process.
I agree that double standards aren't good, but lets face, nearly everything in our culture (that of a western male oriented culture) is has the white man at it's centre. You'll never find a white man having trouble getting a superhero job, because so many of the superheroes are white dudes. It'll have to start out as a double standard until we get to a point where the playing field has been evened out. Let's be honest here, it's pretty steeped towards us right now (Us being white men) and it needs these double standards for now, just to level it out. In 20-40 years, your argument will have significant strength, but for now, WE just have to SUCK IT UP, let them have this momentary double standard and work towards a more inclusive future.

EDIT: I'd like to stress that I agree with you on some points, but you have to agree that the playing field is angled much more towards us.
 

Druss the Legend

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Jun 6, 2009
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I'm against this, not because racism but because I believe in sticking to the source material.
His character has been established as being a good looking, blonde haired white guy. That's who he is. He may not be defined characteristically by that but defined artistically. Changing that shits all over the original artists work and vision, regardless of what was originally intended.
He may be a fictional character, but hes already been well established (50 years) as to the way he looks.
I wouldn't want to see Black Panther or Luke Cage cast as white guys either because that's not who they are.

People bring up Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and plenty of people have pointed out that in the Ultimate universe Nick Fury is black.
What I haven't seen pointed out is that Marvel approached Sam, and asked him if they could model Ultimate Nick Fury off of him.
So in a sense, Samuel L. Jackson IS Nick Fury in the comics as well as the movies.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Troublesome Lagomorph

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May 26, 2009
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I'm opposed to changing the race and gender of characters, honestly.
Edit:
Druss the Legend said:
I'm against this, not because racism but because I believe in sticking to the source material.
His character has been established as being a good looking, blonde haired white guy. That's who he is. He may not be defined characteristically by that but defined artistically. Changing that shits all over the original artists work and vision, regardless of what was originally intended.
He may be a fictional character, but hes already been well established (50 years) as to the way he looks.
I wouldn't want to see Black Panther or Luke Cage cast as white guys either because that's not who they are.

People bring up Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and plenty of people have pointed out that in the Ultimate universe Nick Fury is black.
What I haven't seen pointed out is that Marvel approached Sam, and asked him if they could model Ultimate Nick Fury off of him.
So in a sense, Samuel L. Jackson IS Nick Fury in the comics as well as the movies.

Just my 2 cents.
*scrolls up*
That's basically what I was trying to write in this post originally, but couldn't articulate it well and as such gave it the tl;dr treatment.