So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[Lovely Mixture]

I've talked with people who believe that films today are meant to "provoke white guilt" or that black/asian/hispanic actors "are only chosen to make things diverse" there's no convincing these people.

For nerdrage, the whole arguments about "keeping to the source material" become kind of silly when you realize that there are so many continuities to choose from, and that films themselves can create their own continuities.

For historical accuracy, yes you'd probably want to cast actors who look the part (unless you want to be metaphorical, which would be kind of cool). But we're talking comics, hell you find people who get annoyed for being too close to the source material at some points which is also kind of funny.

 

[Tombsite]

As Tombsite said, if you change the race of Johnny you then need to change the race of Sue and if you change her race you have the future possibility of Franklin and Val to change too.

Did say that. But not as a reason not to have the human torch portrayed by a black actor. It was more a "If you are going to do this, go through with it" kinda of thing. Either you make the Storm's black (I am totally ok with that happening) or you do not. But don't just change one member of the family. That is, as I said, kinda stupid.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

The only thing that's ever bothered me is them making Amanda Waller skinny in the new 52, she was such a badass character and her weight somehow added to that. She was like I don't fucking care if I'm fat Imma shoot your android with this huge nanogun! Meh.

That change bugs me as well. Her wight gave her authority. It kept you unconsciously aware that she's a woman who won't budge.

I've never thought about it that way but I think you are right. It was good characterization. I really like Amanda Waller as a character she is not so much evil as like coldly practical. I like her in the Suicide Squad comics.

 

[kurupt87]

Is it even possible to think this could be stupid idea, without shouts of 'RACIST' and a large amount of pitchfork wielding?? We live in a world full of people just waiting to be offended, and it's getting boring. If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

In this case, I don't really care. But the switching ethnicity's of major characters could get a little tiresome if it appears to merely be for p.c. reasons (I'm looking at you Bond!).

So I'm just sat here waiting to be offended? So when people cry for a man to never even be considered for a role based on the fact that he has one physical feature that differs from the original character, nobody should get angry about that? sorry, mate, but it IS offensive, and it IS racist.
Also, nobody want's Marvel or Fox or whatever to choose the character purely for "PC" reasons. They should choose the best man for the job based on acting skills. Oh, BTW, MGM picked a black guy to play Felix because he was the first to express interest and audition. You think that role wasn't highly sought after?

So, would the fans hypothetical negative reaction to casting Angelina Jolie as The Human Torch be sexist? Patrick Stewart be ageist?

Personally I don't have any problems with the cast, though it obviously doesn't match the original character. It isn't racist to have a problem with it though. In some cases it very much will be, but in most it won't.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

So, genuine question:

If they were instead considering a female actor for the human touch, would complainers be considered sexist?

and to current supporters, would you continue to support this ((and would you continue to use the same kind of justification: 'is the gender really an important part of the human tourches character? What does it matter which chromosomes they have?')
What about current non-supporters, would you continue to argue it's demerits based on their previous depictions not being female?


Or if we extend this line of questioning into lesser/greater degrees:
>Low end: What if they were considering casting someone with red hair? same again, would supporters be arguing that hair colour isn't important/defining, and non-supporters be arguing how it's bad cause he never had red hair? Would they be labled as prejudiced/bigots against red heads?

>High end: what if they were considering casting an animal(such as a hampster)? would supporters be arguing that humanity isn't important/defining, and non-supports be in a fit of rage over how totally not a hampster the human touch has ever been? would they be labeled prejudiced/bigots (racist?) against... well, hampsters?

((bear with me on these last two, i know it's silly, but consider it seriously for a moment when coming to your answer))

I was under the impression that Johnny Storm was supposed to be a bit of a womaniser, so yeah, turning him into a female character would make a difference.

Giving him red hair wouldn't, because I don't suppose his hair colour would make much of a difference to his character. Plus, you can choose a red-haired actor for the role because you think he's better suited for it and then use your makeup department to give him the kind of hair you have in mind. Hair is a bad example because that's not an either/or choice.

And... Hamsters? Really? I think it's fair to say that turning a character into a hamster is making significant changes to the character, the way they must act and feel and so on.

Basically, I don't see what's hard to follow about this. If the change you're making inherently changes the key features of the character in question, then no, you probably shouldn't do it. If the change you're making doesn't really make much of a difference to how the character would act, think, or feel, then feel free to make the change if you've found a more suitable actor for the role.

 

[nathan-dts]

Unless Sue is black, then I don't like the idea. You can reboot the character, just like Fury, but you can't change their family or else they have to start messing with the character's background, too.

I understand people would be unhappy because he's never been portrayed that way before, but it's got nothing to do with the character. I expect Daredevil being shit and Kingpin in that will be putting some people off, too.

 

[FlashBack211]

I notice that only one person has commented on the fact that this is still pretty much speculation at this point. It's all turned into this massive shit flinging frenzy of racism accusations and that's really not the point of it all. Some people will be opposed to the idea, some won't. Doesn't make those against racist or those for/on the fence, sympathizers.

I don't personally "love" Fantastic 4 but I don't think anybody who isn't themselves black is necessarily racist, simply because they don't like this idea. For me, I just don't think Michael B Jordan is a great choice for the role..I could be wrong and should he get the role in the long run, I hope I am. It's a good thing that Josh Trank is at the helm as I really liked what he did with Chronicle. If he can do that with what he had there, giving him control over a Marvel movie has a great deal of potential.

As for the whole sibling thing the workarounds for adoption, "throwback children" or whatever just leaves the impression that the film is going to have to have this whole exposition deal to explain what the hell happened there and would ultimately detract from the point of the film. I'm not for or against the idea of a black guy playing Johnny Storm but it would make the film a lot easier for me personally if the brother and sister shared the same ethnicity, regardless of what it turns out to be.

As far as I'm concerned the only people who are racist in this instance are the people that say shit like "I don't want a n*gger (south park flashbacks) playing Johnny Storm!"

 

[Private Custard]

snip

It's not the Felix thing, it was the talk of Idris Elba being Bond a while back that I was thinking of. Don't get me wrong, I think he's awesome, I just think a black Bond would be silly (for want of a better word).

I'll ask something else, seeing as I'm here.

If a black guy thinks it's a bad idea, is he a racist?

I'm glad you brought the Idris Elba Bond thing up, actually. I honestly wouldn't be happy if they'd cast a black man to be Bond unless they rebooted the franchise, because if you didn't then you'd have a continuity error. The timeline or continuity of Bond has never really been important, so the main character looking different really has never mattered until now the movies are treated as direct sequels again.

doesn't matter what colour they are, I don't think all people who think not changing it are racist, it depends on their reasoning.

I don't have any rules that are set in stone, it's more a case-by-case basis.

Bond has to stay white, unless they do something drastic like killing him off, therefore proving some peoples theory that 007 is just a number. But then, as a side effect, that would make Bond too human in my book. At this point, he can be captured, tortured, suspended, shot etc... But he can't be killed, and he's immune to all STD's!

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I do care about the source material to a degree but if they're good then they're good and I'll let it slide but I hate a person being cast for "just 'cause"/PC reasons. Although, I hope they make Sue black as well otherwise it would be kind of weird lore wise or at least tie up some loose ends there. So if it is something like Thor then fine go do it but if it is something like Voltimand/Francisco in Kenneth Brannagh's Hamlet then don't bother.

 

[fallendong]

I'm not sure if this kid should play the Human Torch (he was honestly forgettable in Chronicle), but I do know that Donald Glover totally deserves a crack at Spider-Man.

 

[Sepko]

Unless Sue is black, then I don't like the idea. You can reboot the character, just like Fury, but you can't change their family or else they have to start messing with the character's background, too.

Why does Sue have to be black as well to keep people happy? One simple line "Hey, this is my adopted brother Johnny" and done. Not much to it.

 

[Legion]

I think this kind of thing should be judged on a case by case basis. If the rest of the cast is the same as the last films and it's supposed to be a direct continuation or a prequel, then changing a previously white character to black would be stupid as far as I am concerned.

If it's a reboot, re-imagining or else considered separate from other versions like the latest Spiderman version being different from the trilogy with Toby Maguire, then I honestly do not see the issue, as they constantly change certain things about characters in different versions.

I find it a lot worse when they change a characters personality in adaptations than when they change the appearance. Unless the appearance is actually relevant to the character design like the characters in A Song of Ice and Fire. Where the appearances in many cases have importance to the story, such as Sandor Clegane.

 

[deadish]

They shouldn't do it.

It's based on a comic book. They should try to be as faithful to it as possible and not make unnecessary changes.

What next? The Thing gains psychic powers?

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Does kind of completely change the relationship between him and his sister. Not that I give a crap. We tried fantastic 4 movies with a white Johnny Storm and they sucked rhino balls.

I thought it was kind of odd to make Heimdall, a Norse God, a black guy, and that movie was pretty good. Why? Because he's a god. He can be whatever he wants and I'm not going to argue with him.

 

[krazykidd]

Eh . I don't think they should do it . It would lose a lot of it's charm i they did . In the comics he's white and it ahould stay that way . Why can't people stay true to the source material .

Logically , it shouldn't make a difference . But realistically it does . Sure it's just a movie , but it's movie , based on a comic book that a lot of people are familiar with . Changing something like this is bound to have a reaction . It's not racism , it's just weird .

Also , because i don't trust directors/writters , and i'm afraid their going to play on the fact that the main character is black . And i absolutely hate when they do that . It's why , as a black man , i cannot watch black comedies and hate black comedians .

 

[Scott Rothman]

OH NO MY PRECIOUS CAUCASIAN CHARACTERS?!?!?! HOW WILL I EVER ENJOY THEIR STORY LINES IF I CAN'T SEE MYSELF AS THEM?!?!?!?

Welcome to the plight of every non-white person for the past.....forever.

 

[Hagi]

Don't really care either way to be honest, although I do agree with those saying that if he's black then his sister should be as well.

Certainly, as mentioned, things like throwback children exist as well as the option of adoptions and/or half-siblings. But the former would require an in-depth explanation in the movie since to most people it'd be something they hadn't heard of, likely breaking the flow of the movie at that point. And the latter would change the character, both are things that do have an impact on a person's life.

Since most likely this will be an action movie the best thing is to keep it focused and simple. Throwing in a throwback child, adoption or half-sibling just seems like adding a complication to the movie that it could do just as well without.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

People do realise right that the only reason these characters are all white in the original source material is that they were created in an era of institutionalised racism, where no-one could base a comic around a black character and expect it to be popular?

So yeah... I really don't consider this one aspect of comic book 'authenticity' to be all that sacred. If Michael B Jordan is good in the role, just as Idris Elba and Samuel L Jackson were, then nobody has any rational reason to give a fuck about the change of colour.

Then why not CREATE good, well-written, non-white, superheroes? They are just lazy shmucks.
And about Samuel L. Jackson: Nick Fury in Ultimate universe is black, so no problems there.

Well they are trying (for example the new Ultimate Spiderman, even though that one got a heap of shit piled on it as well for not being white -_-), and I'd say that the comic book industry (including within the label movies and other material based of comic book franchises) has a wider problem of just being heavily bereft of new characters in general. So yeah, I'd love to see lots of new characters and I love to see many non-whites in the new ranks.

In the meantime however, a handful of previously white characters appearing as a different skin-tone, with no substantial change to their personalities of motivations whatsoever, is absolutely nothing to get pissy about... unless you're a closet racist. The new Spiderman reboot was bad because they fucked up the fundamental motivations of Spiderman as a character, not because Andrew Garfield is British. Had they cast a black man as Peter Parker instead, but kept the fundamentals of why Spiderman is Spiderman, it would have made for a better Spiderman movie.

 

[Tombsite]

Unless Sue is black, then I don't like the idea. You can reboot the character, just like Fury, but you can't change their family or else they have to start messing with the character's background, too.

Why does Sue have to be black as well to keep people happy? One simple line "Hey, this is my adopted brother Johnny" and done. Not much to it.

Because they have always been biological siblings. Making them both black is simply a "cosmetic" change (only because superhero movies do not do social commentary just yet), what you propose is to change Johnny's background.

In this case you are changing the character for the sake of having a black actor which is opening a whole new discussion.

And seriously. Why not have her black?