So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[Arslan Aladeen]

You guys all remember Idris Elba as Heimdall? Yeah, he was fucking badass I say give anybody a chance to make a unique version of a character rather than what we've seen for the past 70 years in comic books.

He was? All I remember from him in the movie was standing around and getting frozen. Just to be clear, I'm in the camp for letting the best actor play the part, but I just don't understand what was so great about Idris as Heimdall. He was just there to me.

 

[asap]

I wonder if the guy who played The Thing was black, they would consider it racist?

 

[lunam-kardas]

Hey if the guy is a good actor then what's the problem?

It's not so much the problem with the actor but more of the character and the ability of a director(keyword there) of keeping things CONSISTENT.

Honestly that's really what it comes down to is having the actor being able to capture the essence of the character and the director actually understanding the material to keep things consistent. After all two people of the Fantastic Four are brother and sister. That's kinda important and really would be VERY hard to justify that having say a white blonde girl being a brother to a black boy.

I mean yeah the director can certainly say "Oh they were adopted" and that would technically solve the problem for the movie but I think more people who like the series wants that consistency.

Well if we're going for consistency, then Sue storm should be an idiot who forgets she's invisible then wanders into traffic (at least twice because that's what happened in the comics) all while wailing about how useless she is and how hopeless the odds are.

Don't forget that 'awful' reboot of Batman that absolutely desecrated the consistent camp established up until that point, it's not like doing something in a new way could possibly have positive results.

You're right we should be CONSISTENT in keeping things the way they are and fight all that dares to breathe new life into 50 year old material because hey, that wouldn't be consistent.

 

[Right Hook]

What does the Escapist make of this? Do you guys care about the race of a character in an adaptation?

Sue Storm is his sister, so they better make her black too or at least make one of them be adopted, otherwise this really is worth getting mad over. Honestly though, I don't care too much, would prefer him white but this is coming from the guy who wanted Donald Glover to play Spider-Man, instead of that lame Andrew Garfield kid, so my opinions are all over the board.

Is it too much to ask to start putting more actual black super-hero's into movies though? How long do we need to wait for Luke Cage? Black Panther? Bishop? or Cloak? However we have already seen Blade, Nick Fury, Storm, War Machine and we will see the Falcon. So I'm thinking there are plenty of other races being underrepresented.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

By the way, Dr. Doom? Totally a gypsy(which is an ethnicity--peep the 2007 and 2009 DNA studies linking them to the Jat). I don't remember the first F4 movie very well but I do believe they westernized him as well. Also annoying, even if he is somewhat of a stereotype.

No one targets Johnny Storm in fast food adverts because they think he's too dumb to know any better.

If you count Taco Bell as fast food, then this isn't a black only thing.

I'm interested to know more about this though.

It might be a regional thing but most of the McDonald's commercials have all-black casts and their catchphrases were updated to "reflect hip-hop culture." I think they started marketing to ethnics a few years ago, the idea was to appeal to the growing demand from that demographic(obesity rates present highest among blacks and latino[sic] whites in the US) as well as to influence young white consumers, whom they think take their cues from minority subculture.

see also: prevalence of fast food restaurants in predominately black neighborhoods.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15450633

 

[theultimateend]

Have they introduced the multiverse in the films yet? If not, we're still dealing with the Earth 616 version of this character, unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Nick Fury is Samuel L Jackson from the Ultimates Universe.

So yes?

 

[Lovely Mixture]

You guys all remember Idris Elba as Heimdall? Yeah, he was fucking badass I say give anybody a chance to make a unique version of a character rather than what we've seen for the past 70 years in comic books.

He was? All I remember from him in the movie was standing around and getting frozen. Just to be clear, I'm in the camp for letting the best actor play the part, but I just don't understand what was so great about Idris as Heimdall. He was just there to me.

Dammit Franklin, help a brother out.

Ok in all seriousness, I felt it was the way he delivered his lines. I liked Thor for not biting off more than it could chew, but also because I felt the acting of the Norse characters was done in a stylistic way.
For example:

-Hemsworth (Thor) delivered his lines like an old fashioned knight
-Hiddlestone (Loki) delivered his lines like he was reciting from a poem
-Hopkins (Odin) delivered his lines like he was in a stage play

Now all those are awesome, but they are all styles that are easy to point out, Elba (Heimdall) delivered his lines like he was the Golem (from Hebrew myth) or..... some similar figure. And to me that was impressive.

but this is coming from the guy who wanted Donald Glover to play Spider-Man, instead of that lame Andrew Garfield kid, so my opinions are all over the board.

Wow, I guess Garfield's performance was apparently just as divisive as the film itself.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well they are trying (for example the new Ultimate Spiderman, even though that one got a heap of shit piled on it as well for not being white -_-), and I'd say that the comic book industry (including within the label movies and other material based of comic book franchises) has a wider problem of just being heavily bereft of new characters in general. So yeah, I'd love to see lots of new characters and I love to see many non-whites in the new ranks.

Thing is, Marvel has had a solid body of non-white characters for decades. I don't know about DC, where I barely know the character roster, so I can't talk there. The issue appears to be that they don't sell with a predominantly white audience, whether they're good characters or not. Whether this is down to racism or not is debatable, but the comic book fandom doesn't do itself any favours with the tantrums they throw over this sort of thing.

Granted, it's the same sort of tantrum thrown over any mild change, so it is hard to actually pin down as racism.

The point being, I'm not sure new non-white characters would be better received than old non-white characters or colour-changed characters.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I don't really care if you change the ethnicity of a character, as long as it is done for the right reasons. Meaning that if someone comes in and auditions for a part and totally nails it or brings something to the character that no one was expecting that is awesome, then you should cast them regardless of ethnicity(or sex for that matter).

If you go out of your way to purposely cast an 'ethnic' character for a part so that you can call yourself progressive or to try to appeal to a target market then you should go and die now, because you are everything that is wrong with the industry/world.

From what I read of the article(I skimmed it mostly) the Director Josh Trank has worked with Michael B. Jordan in the past and he wants to work with him again. I'm going to be optimistic and assume that Josh Trank made this decision not only because he has a good working relationship with Michael B. Jordan but because he believes that Michael can bring something to the table that would make the role his.

Assuming of course Michael B. Jordan gets the part. From what I read all that's happening at the moment is that his name has been thrown into the mix.

basically gotta agree with this. if the person fuckin nails it to the core, then sure (and as long as it doesn't fuck up the plot TOO MUCH, such as the malcom X example) i don't see why not?

but i do think it's a bit easier to understand a character or immerse in them if they are accurate to the source material. i didn't see it but i think it would've been a bit awkward having a white guy as Django in django unchained.

 

[afroebob]

Well, I can see 4 sides of the story:

1. Its OK because the character isn't defined by the color of his skin
2. Its OK because its politically correct
3. Its not OK because it goes against the characters physical design
4. Its not OK because he's black

Reason 2 and 4 are both absolute bullshit, but 1 and 3 are both totally valid. For me there's no right answer, but its also not a big deal either way.

 

[MrGalactus]

So yeah,
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/will-chronicle-star-michael-b-jordan-be-human-torch-fantastic-four-88881
Michael B Jordan is considering being The Human Torch in the Fantastic Four reboot. Frankly, I think there's no problem here at all. A role, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with the look of the character, but how well the actor can capture or interpret the character, but the comic book community is complaining all over the internet. Seriously, check the comments. It's not good stuff.

What does the Escapist make of this? Do you guys care about the race of a character in an adaptation?

Now take Black Panther, whose entire entity is about his pride and loyalty to his African people, and replace him with a white or Asian actor, and suddenly you destroy the character completely.

I agree with that. His race is a central part of Black Panther's character, changing it would undermine a lot of what he's about.

Character is canonically white. They use a black actor and ruin the canon.
It's not racism for wanting the white character to be white. If you're searching for racism, then it's racism to want him to be a black actor. You're basically forcing a white character out.

Don't change character just to pander to people who weren't fans in the first place, ignoring the real fans. If you want a black super hero, then create a black super hero, but don't change already existing heroes.

And for fucks sake stop searching for racism and sexism in every damn thing.

It's not pandering if it's just choosing the actor best suited for the role, and a reboot has no canon. You can adapt it any way you like.

I don't think the people saying the stuff are racists, I just think the things they're saying is ignorant and offensive.

Funny, because the title of your topic says that anyone with nerd rage against this is being racist. Hell, let's look at your comment right above the one I just quoted:

So I'm just sat here waiting to be offended? So when people cry for a man to never even be considered for a role based on the fact that he has one physical feature that differs from the original character, nobody should get angry about that? sorry, mate, but it IS offensive, and it IS racist.

So which is it? Ignorant and offensive? Or racist and offensive?

Now that the "Just being a dick" portion of my response is over with, I'll go ahead and say that I don't think it's racist. In my experience, it's generally the people that cry out "racism!" that are the most racist people and/or are the ones interjecting race into a topic. In this case, where the race of the actor IS the topic, it's a bit different though. You can't, however, go around calling people racist just because they point to a character who is white and say "Why are they making him black? He's not black." Because...well...he's not. There's nothing racist about that, they're making a very valid point and observation: Johnny Storm isn't black in the comics, is it not ok for Fantastic 4 fanboys to get pissed off when a movie adaptation doesn't try to have as close a resemblence to the comics as possible? They want the movie to be as close to the comicbook canon as possible, THAT'S why they don't want Jordan to be Johnny. It'd be like getting a white guy to play the role of Muhammad Ali. No matter how fantastic the guy as an actor is, people would still be sitting there saying "Ummmm...wtf? Ali's black..."

To say that criticizing this is racist is the same as saying any objections to the Obama administration stems from racism. God forbid people disagree with their policies, no, it's clearly because they're racist. Just like here: god forbid people want the movie to reflect canon, no, it's clearly because they're all racist and hate black actors.

There is definitely something racist about refusing to consider an actor or actress based purely on the colour of their skin, regardless of how well they actually play the character.

I wouldn't consider it racist.

There's a huge difference between turning a character black and replacing them with a similar, black character (like Miles Morales).

Personally, changing the race of a character just seems... disrespectful to that character. I mean, if the Human Torch had been black to begin with and they were considering a white actor to play him, well that would just be racist as hell wouldn't it? Why isn't it the same the other way around?

So I'm just sat here waiting to be offended? So when people cry for a man to never even be considered for a role based on the fact that he has one physical feature that differs from the original character, nobody should get angry about that? sorry, mate, but it IS offensive, and it IS racist.

So are you saying if there were a movie centered around the bushmen tribes of Africa, that it would be acceptable to consider a white or Asian actor for the role of the tribe leader?

Depends. If it's a real person we're basing it off, I'd say it's up to them, if they're dead, stick to historical accuracy, but it's not a huge problem either way, really.

Is it even possible to think this could be stupid idea, without shouts of 'RACIST' and a large amount of pitchfork wielding?? We live in a world full of people just waiting to be offended, and it's getting boring. If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

In this case, I don't really care. But the switching ethnicity's of major characters could get a little tiresome if it appears to merely be for p.c. reasons (I'm looking at you Bond!).

So I'm just sat here waiting to be offended? So when people cry for a man to never even be considered for a role based on the fact that he has one physical feature that differs from the original character, nobody should get angry about that? sorry, mate, but it IS offensive, and it IS racist.
Also, nobody want's Marvel or Fox or whatever to choose the character purely for "PC" reasons. They should choose the best man for the job based on acting skills. Oh, BTW, MGM picked a black guy to play Felix because he was the first to express interest and audition. You think that role wasn't highly sought after?

So, would the fans hypothetical negative reaction to casting Angelina Jolie as The Human Torch be sexist? Patrick Stewart be ageist?

Personally I don't have any problems with the cast, though it obviously doesn't match the original character. It isn't racist to have a problem with it though. In some cases it very much will be, but in most it won't.

Yeah, it would. Angelina Jolie or Patrick Stewart being judged on whether they should be given a role based on who they are, rather than what they can do, would be sexist or ageist respectively.

So yeah,
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/will-chronicle-star-michael-b-jordan-be-human-torch-fantastic-four-88881
Michael B Jordan is considering being The Human Torch in the Fantastic Four reboot. Frankly, I think there's no problem here at all. A role, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with the look of the character, but how well the actor can capture or interpret the character, but the comic book community is complaining all over the internet. Seriously, check the comments. It's not good stuff.

What does the Escapist make of this? Do you guys care about the race of a character in an adaptation?

So you wouldn't have a problem with them changing the gender of a character either? Most stories could work just fine with all the genders reversed but I don't think it's a good idea. It's just changing details for no reason.

Like having a white Goku was jarring (though that DBZ film was shit for plenty of other reasons)

Depends on the actor/actress.

Isn't Goku from space or something?

 

[Lunar Templar]

I'm more bothered by the fact they're making ANOTHER' Fantastic Four movie then the color of the flaming twat I didn't like the first time around.

 

[Little Gray]

I was under the impression that most of the complaints came from the change to Dante's character, which is something I can actually understand. Sure, there was some complaining about his new look, but I don't think it was as much an issue to people who actually played it and were upset about Dante being a completely different person.

Well sorry to break it to you but your kind of wrong. Sure the people who played it didnt care but the people who played it were not the same people who were bitching for six months straight about Dantes new look.

 

[psijac]

Entirely true and agreeable. If you're casting for Crossbones or Malcolm X, then yeah, it's a big deal because it's a central part of the character.

I would go see a movie where Malcolm X was casted as a white person. That would be the closest thing to a Quantum Leap movie as we will ever get

 

[kypsilon]

I'm more bothered by the fact they're making ANOTHER' Fantastic Four movie then the color of the flaming twat I didn't like the first time around.

The real problem there is that it's not an in-house Marvel movie like the Avengers, it's done by 20th Century Fox which means it will likely suck and also likely get another remake if and when the rights ever default back to Marvel/Disney.

OT: I'm not a fan of the race swapping thing in a pre-established character. The Fantastic Four is that stereotypical white 50's family with superpowers. I have comics where Johnny Storm is the most painfully white California bleach blond kid you can roll out of the suburbs. He's so white he makes Wonder Bread look tanned. But sadly, as humorous as that is, he is still a white guy. I'd cry bloody murder if they made Storm or Luke Cage white. That's not racist, that's having respect for the character as they were made.

If Marvel comics wants to make an all black or multi-racial family out of the Fantastic Four though, I'd be all for that. At the same time though, they could just make new and interesting characters that aren't white. A little color in the comics wouldn't hurt.

 

[camazotz]

I think Reed Richards would work great played by a black actor, actually. And it would avoid the issue of the brother/sister" problem between Sue and Johnny Storm....assuming that they even keep them as brother and sister in the next movie. With reboots and all like they are, its likely they are considering rejecting as much of the FF canon as they can get away with, I bet, to restructure it for a 21st century audience. And let's face it, the reason that there isn't any black character in FF is probably because of its date of origin more than anything (1961).

If we can have a black Nick Fury, we can have a black Johnny (and hopefully Sue) Storm...but I'd be happier with a black Reed Richards, myself, if only because I think his character of all of them is most in need of a revamp for the digital screen.

 

[Flunk]

I think the real reason to be upset is that the last set of Fantastic Four movies isn't even that old. Why are they rebooting it when they could just make more? All they're going to have time to do is introduce the characters again. It will be like that crappy Spiderman movie they made recently.