So, about that piracy... AKA Woman forced to pay $1.5 million for pirating music

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Angerwing

Kid makes a post...
Jun 1, 2009
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1. Get pinged for downloading songs by record company.
2. Go out and buy CDs, or order them online ASAP.
3. Argue that you already have ownership over CDs, and you were just getting it in a different format or something.
4. Get more lenient charge.
5. ?????
6. Stop pirating.
 

Dogstile

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Jan 17, 2009
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BonsaiK said:
Sven und EIN HUND said:
A woman has been ordered to pay $1.5 million US to recording companies for pirating 24 songs on 'KaZaA', a peer-to-peer file sharing network that, I'd assume, is not unlike the late Limewire. The full article is here, so I won't bother going into the details: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/8119083/woman-to-pay-us1-5m-for-online-piracy

Personally I think that's goddamn absurd. Apparently this comes after a few similar offenses from the same woman, but $1.5 million?? Is piracy a crime? Yes. Have they gone too far? In my opinion: Yes. What do you think?
She didn't want to play ball and settle out of court, so they're showing her who's boss, because why the hell not. Who is she to get arrogant and on her high horse when she's a thief? Steal a $50 handbag from a store and get caught, is your fine $50? Hell no, it's a fucking lot more isn't it, and the reason why is to teach you a lesson that stealing is something that you should not do.
Actually, here it is roughly £50 fine and a ban from the store if you get court. Also, there's a difference between teaching someone a lesson and putting them in debt for life.
 

Jeronus

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Nov 14, 2008
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They obviously are going to pick out one pirate and make them pay for all the illegal downloads every time this happen. It is like the lottery but in reverse.
 

Jeronus

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Nov 14, 2008
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Bloodstain said:
In June 2009, a jury ordered Thomas-Rasset to pay $US1.92 million ($A1.91 million) - or $US80,000 ($A79,748.79) per song - to six record companies: Capitol Records, Sony BMG Music, Arista Records, Interscope Records, Warner Bros Records and UMG Recordings.

[...]

Thomas-Rasset was convicted previously, in October 2007, and ordered to pay $US220,000 ($A219,309.18) in damages, but the judge who presided over that trial threw out the verdict calling it "wholly disproportionate" and "oppressive".
Yeah, she in fact was convicted before and refused to pay, but $1.92 million and $220,000 don't sound too well either.

Geez, she should just pay for what she's stolen, maybe two times the price.

Edit: I hope Anonymous intervenes.
I doubt shutting down the company website for half an hour will make it any easier for her to pay 1.5 million dollars. Unless Anonymous has 1.5 million dollars lying around next to his computer filled with songs he couldn't bother to pay for.
 

Celtic_Kerr

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May 21, 2010
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Greyfox105 said:
I think that what she has to pay is just stupid.
Sure, they should pay for the damages they've done, maybe up to a total of two times the original release value of the products that they pirated (If it is just them downloading for personal use, not to further distribute/sell), but $1.5 million dollars for 24 songs?
Those 24 songs better have been diamond-encrusted for that price.
NOt necessarily. Peer to peer is folder based downloading, and she was uploading the songs as well. Let's say a song is worth $1.50 for whatever reason. Sure she downloaded, it, but then she uploaded it to a tons of people. Thos people, because they got it off her, were able to upload it to t tons of people. it starts off a chain basically. That's the reasoning. It's hard to track just where it ends, but it's exponential, and it's fucking ugly.

I don't think it should have been quite so high, because while she gavve the people the ability to further upload the song, she couldn't control them and make them upload it.
 

Ike Jager

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Nov 19, 2009
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This seems to proves that the government feed of people's fear of the law's power to make immoral charges. The whole court and cases thing is BS because the judge might be in on it..
 

KeyMaster45

Gone Gonzo
Jun 16, 2008
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Sven und EIN HUND said:
A woman has been ordered to pay $1.5 million US to recording companies for pirating 24 songs on 'KaZaA', a peer-to-peer file sharing network that, I'd assume, is not unlike the late Limewire. The full article is here, so I won't bother going into the details: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/8119083/woman-to-pay-us1-5m-for-online-piracy

Personally I think that's goddamn absurd. Apparently this comes after a few similar offenses from the same woman, but $1.5 million?? Is piracy a crime? Yes. Have they gone too far? In my opinion: Yes. What do you think?
I remember hearing about this case several months back when she was given a smaller fine (still really high) and decided to appeal it. (may be thinking of another case). Yes, 1.5 million does seem like an absurd amount and rightfully it is, however, they're taking into account that once she downloaded the 24 songs she left them up for seeding and other people were able to get their hands on it. In all actuality I seem to remember her case started out as something like over 1,000 songs stolen but was dropped to 24 because that was as much as the prosecution was able to prove she had downloaded.

This is why the RIAA and MPAA can sue for such absurd amounts of money. When you dowload via P2P you're not only getting a copy, but depending on the connection limit you set for yourself hundreds possibly thousands of other people benefit from you having a copy. So not only have you stolen something but you've shared that stolen property and allowed with anyone else with an IQ high enough to set up uTorrent, Kazza, Limewire, etc; to steal it as well.

The woman was given an easy out, $5,000 was chump change compared to the amounts of money the RIAA demanded from broke college students at the start. Instead she decided to fight the system and lost hard. I'm not saying $1.5million is an acceptable amount of money, but I am saying she was stupid for trying to fight the RIAA when she already didn't have a leg to stand on.
 

_Cake_

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Apr 5, 2009
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Congrats it's now cheaper to rape and murder a prostitute then upload a lady gaga song within the American legal system.
 

Antari

Music Slave
Nov 4, 2009
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Why am I not suprised Warner is involved with this? ... Its a simple point to me, I don't do business with big business. They don't have any morals, they don't have any respect.
 

CommanderKirov

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Oct 3, 2010
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Meh i am all for making the illegal pirateers pay, but 1.5 mill? Boy that is steep, even to show to public that piracy is bad.

Give her 50.000 fine at the start, that would work just as well to scare potential pirates, and lets face it. Would make actually possible for her to PAY instead of having to take away her house and all the earthly possesions just to find out that you do not have enough to pay the bayliff for saying "Please rise"...

Sure she would end up in debt for quite a long time. But that teaches a valuable life lesson.
 

Nahhnbah

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Nov 4, 2010
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Make her pay for the music at secondhand prices.

There. Done.

Stop bawwing Music industry, you're losing my sympathy thick and fast.
 

PeePantz

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Sep 23, 2010
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ravensheart18 said:
She doesn't want to settle. She LIKES being a celeb. She isn't paying her legal bills. This is a case of lawyers dragging the case through the US courts to make a name for themselves with a willing 'victim' who is happy to go along for the ride.

Bloodstain said:
Edit: I hope Anonymous intervenes.
And does what?

There is nothing to intervene in. These are jury decision in court cases that the woman is basically instigating.
Is she trolling the legal system or is she troll baiting a jury? Either way, the jury trolled way harder.
 

hyperhammy

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Jan 4, 2010
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SinisterGehe said:
She will wont ever be able to pay that...
I know pirating is wrong and can be considered immoral, but so is abusing law like that...
Both are evil in this instance, but 1,5million? That f'king absurd!!!
The price is pretty high, and yes, she will NEVER be able to pay that amount, but would it really have been so hard to pay 24$ for music? I think this sort of thing needs to happen so people can get a fucking clue... just don't do, no problem!
 

Starke

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Mar 6, 2008
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TwilightVulpine said:
Yes, she had the opportunity to settle for $25,000.

That opportunity was offered after a trial in which the judge decided that a damages fine of $1.92 mil was absurd nad lowered it to $54,000. To settle for $25,000, the condition was that she would have to ask the judge to vacate his decision, invalidating the legal precedent.

So, I think she did well. That legal precedent makes it harder for RIAA to get this kind of absurd veredict. I hope she can still ask for a new trial.
Her first pass at a settlement would have been around three to five grand. She refused and was hit for two hundred thousand, which she was apparently unsatisfied with... right...
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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uro vii said:
dastardly said:
1) The "recording industry" doesn't assign the damages, the court does.
The thing is though, the big record labels have been at this absurd crusade for around a decade now and what has it achieved? This is yet another case of a label victimising an individual in a vain attempt to halt piracy via fear. I'd go so far as to say they may simply do this out of malice since they must have realised by now that this method does not work.

Making pirates hate you isn't going to bring them over to your way of seeing. It seems obvious and yet these big labels continue with their dogmatic witch hunt. I'm happy she is attempting too fight, because it is drawing more attention to how backwards the world's major labels have become.
Actually, it has achieved quite a bit. The major file-sharing networks, through which millions of songs were pirated a bloody month are gone... or they've started paying the labels their due in some way or another. Napster, Limewire, etc. Just because it hasn't eradicated piracy doesn't mean it hasn't been extremely effective.

Options like iTunes are also anti-piracy measures in that they provide a legal way to download individual songs. That's an example of the music industry adapting to the digital age, while people scream that they're not.

What I think people might be starting to realize as a whole is that the pro-pirate population is NOT the majority. Now, in our tiny little corner of reality known as the "vocal internet minority," yes, people who are anti-record-label, pro-piracy seem to be the overwhelming majority... but as is shown by repeated trials by jury, it's not the majority opinion of society at large.

There is a loud, obnoxious minority that thinks downloading songs for free is somehow fair. Attempts to reason with them fail hilariously, so the only options left are either to just give up, or to fight them. The music industry, not wanting to eventually be sunk, has chosen to fight. And make no mistake, if piracy was made legal, that would be the end. No one's going to pay for music if they can get the same quality and quantity for free, without any legal ramifications.

The following misunderstandings are informing this vocal minority, largely due to the INTERNET press (who are fairly download-friendly) misrepresenting these cases:

1) The recording industry OWNS THIS MUSIC. And no one anywhere has any "right" to it but them. So they can charge whatever they want, and our choices are to buy it or go without. That's what price tags are--barriers to entry.

2) Circumventing someone else's ownership in order to gain access to something is illegal. Even if I don't "steal" anything from your house, if I break in while you're not home, watch your TV, crap in your toilet, and sleep in your bed, you're going to be right pissed off. Why? Because it's YOUR STUFF, and I'm using it without your permission. I couldn't use the "I'm not stealing it, because it's all still there!" defense to get out of you (and the cops) being pissed.

3) When someone gets caught, they're warned. Usually several damned times. You don't hear about it, because it's a warning. Sometimes that warning includes a fine. And yes, that fine will be higher than the price of the same number of songs downloaded legally--one, because it constitutes a penalty/deterrent, and two because this person has incurred other possible damages by making this pirated file available to others (via file sharing networks).

4) The larger penalties you hear about include things like court costs. This is because someone has been charged, found guilty, appealed, found guilty again, appealed again found guilty again, and so on. They're hoping the company eventually just gives up the suit, or some jury somewhere takes pity. Meanwhile, the company (who is NOT giving up) has no reason to personally pay these costs incurred by the criminal who has refused to pay up and keeps gaming the system.

5) Internet media outlets tend to portray this as a normal, average citizen made a victim of the immense corporate machine that is the recording industry. The problem is that these are not average citizens. They're taking music that is not theirs. And they are "victims" of due process--they're being found guilty by a jury of peers, not a panel of recording industry executives. They're being found guilty of a crime.

6) The JURIES are also the ones awarding these massive settlements. Not the recording industry. Not the judges. Judges are typically reducing them. Most folks end up settling anyhow, for even further reductions in the fine.

In this case, it is very much about the recording industry making it known that they have no reason to back down. It their property, and these people took it without asking or paying. A loud minority insists they should just let it go, though no sane or logical reason has been presented to indicate why these people shouldn't pay for what they took plus a penalty for the original crime and for facilitating the distribution of the stolen music. They know the settlements are way out there, and they know they'll be trimmed down... unless some idiot keeps pushing the wrong button, like a retarded rat in a science experiment.