So, apprently a Super Bowl 48 commercial is pissing people off...

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IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Zontar said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Ya know in a way? I get it.

It be like trying to take all the french out of Quebec.
I'm from Quebec and I find that's a terrible example.
Make that two. Quebec's culture isn't explicitly defined by the fact that people speak French in that province. Not anymore, at least. People still largely speak French - but also Mandarin, Cantonese, several Arab dialects, Yiddish, Hebrew, Inuktitut - you name it.

When I hear people say that "America the Beautiful" should only be sung in English, it brings out feelings of confusion and, well, just plain freaking anger, in me. If anything, it should be sung in Navajo or in Sioux or Algonquin, but you won't hear anyone call for that, now, will you?

And I'm a French Canadian. I speak French at home, but the ignorant twits who are currently trying to clamor about "Al Quaedas" threatening our good, "French Canadian and Catholic" way of life need to die in a flaming ditch, honestly.

Inclusiveness for the win - in whatever country you happen to reside.
 

Icehearted

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Aris Khandr said:
Icehearted said:
This will be thorny, no matter how it's approached.

Anecdotal experience; most legal emigrants resent illegals, especially for not bothering to become more associated with this country, including learning customs, the language, the history, etc. If I moved to Korea or Germany, I wouldn't have an entitled attitude about how I should be accommodated by them in their own land. Likewise I think that the language of America is primarily English, ironically a lot of it is made of other languages, but American English, in and of itself apparently complex to even our own natively born citizens, is the language. I don't mind concessions, I'm all for diversity, this doesn't offend me, even if the implication is a bit offensive, especially given how other countries thump terms like "sovereignty" on the table whenever America wants to step into things. I mind that people I know were passed up on jobs in America because they didn't speak Spanish or Vietnamese s well as English, and were talking local service and support jobs for companies like ATT and local cable networks.

America is made of immigrants and their descendants, which is what used to make this country uniquely appealing and you can see this all over our map, but if you're choosing to be American why not embrace our ways rather than expect others to accommodate yours?

Pardon my thorns.
The difference between your examples (Germany and South Korea) and the United States is that the US does not have an official language. English may be the lingua franca, but it is not official. This isn't an oversight, the idea has been brought up and rejected several times. he idea that someone is less American because they can't speak English is FAR more un-American.
I am unsure if that was a statement or an inference.

To your first point; I am aware of this, likewise I am aware that American English is a language that is taught in courses to non-native speakers, that the US Census recognizes it's overwhelming use above all other languages in the country, and that it is the major vernacular of it's citizens, again above all other languages. English is the language of the United Sates Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and The Bill of Rights, suggesting nothing more to me than it was the language of this country's founders, speculate at your leisure as to intent, purpose, or meaning therein.

Frankly, in my opinion, our lack of an official language as well as stricter educational rules regarding how this language is taught has reinforced racial and economic divides by spawning the abhorrent official recognition of "Ebonics", the suggested language of black people and poor people. I digress a bit, but I think it's a reasonable observation that while diversity in culture and language can be a strength, the weakness of our more prevalent dialect among all too many of our citizens is a shameful hindrance to social and educational growth and personal dignity.

I also want to point out that this is a great way for Coke to get people to not talk about Coke. I love that stuff, even have some collectibles, just think it's funny and sad. Like that reaction the Cheerios commercial with the biracial couple had gotten.
 

Petromir

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llamastorm.games said:
It's a pretty British and American thing to demand that everyone speak English. Go to nearly any other country in the world and in different areas they speak a completely different language.
Many countries have 2 or more official languages...
I will at this point point out legally the only official language in the UK is in fact Welsh, and only in Wales. In England we have no legally official language. The UK supports a number of languages, and some fairly extreme dialects of English and several of Welsh.
 

krazykidd

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SaneAmongInsane said:
Ya know in a way? I get it.

It be like trying to take all the french out of Quebec.
Because as soon as you step in Quebec you are no longer in Canada , right?( I'm from quebec, and hate the french vs english attitude we have here, not to mention the white vs everyone else attitude that is also hounding everything).

OT: Patriotism has turned into a synonym for racism and intolerence. Gotta love north america.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Lightknight said:
80% of the US speak English as the first language. It is the de facto national language whether legally recognized or not.
There's a saying, though it's a touch outdated: That and a quarter'll get you a cup of coffee. I suppose it's now more like "That and a sawbuck'll get you a cooffee-flavoured milkshake," but the point would be the same. The question becomes, so what?
Just trying to point out their perspective. The so what is that the answer to what language Americans speak is English. It being official or not doesn't matter. If France didn't have an official language we would still say they spoke French even though I'm sure there's a non-zero number of people who don't speak it as their first language.

The point isn't that these people are just in their bitching about the commercial. The point is merely that this kind of tribal mentality is core to human nature and part of how we've survived this long as a species. It may or may not be becoming outdated but it's not going to go away from mankind any time soon.

So I'm more just explaining that this kind of mentality is going to happen and isn't unique to the States. I'm not defending it as sensical or right. Just human in nature.
 

Wasted

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Icehearted said:
This will be thorny, no matter how it's approached.

Anecdotal experience; most legal emigrants resent illegals, especially for not bothering to become more associated with this country, including learning customs, the language, the history, etc. If I moved to Korea or Germany, I wouldn't have an entitled attitude about how I should be accommodated by them in their own land. Likewise I think that the language of America is primarily English, ironically a lot of it is made of other languages, but American English, in and of itself apparently complex to even our own natively born citizens, is the language. I don't mind concessions, I'm all for diversity, this doesn't offend me, even if the implication is a bit offensive, especially given how other countries thump terms like "sovereignty" on the table whenever America wants to step into things. I mind that people I know were passed up on jobs in America because they didn't speak Spanish or Vietnamese s well as English, and were talking local service and support jobs for companies like ATT and local cable networks.

America is made of immigrants and their descendants, which is what used to make this country uniquely appealing and you can see this all over our map, but if you're choosing to be American why not embrace our ways rather than expect others to accommodate yours?

Pardon my thorns.
I have to speak with my experiences with illegal immigration. One of my relatives was an illegal immigrant that moved to the United States when she was 16 forced by her parents to help support the. Being thrown into a new country with no knowledge of language or culture, she quickly settled into a familiar environment, a Spanish-speaking community. Being stuck in a small town where everyone speaks Spanish does not put pressure on you to learn English any time soon.

She was overwhelmed and was denied to go to school by her father because being the oldest she had to support the family. When looking for a full-time job (remember, she was 16 at this time) she was able to find one with a fake ID and social security number. She became a machinist working on large machines for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Through her job she began to learn more English but she still had a thick accent which embarrassed her, because of this she rarely socialized with her fellow employees. She said she was petrified of being found out and deported, there was not a day she said that she did not fear someone finding out.

She worked like this for around 5 years paying taxes on a name that wasn't even hers, never having the chance to see any of that money. She never got unemployment, disability, food stamps, or any other "hand out" that so many people seem to believe most illegals just demand and receive the second they set foot in this country. Years later she had a family and eventually became a legal citizen through the Regan administration.

Many of my experiences with undocumented people are similar. I'm not sure where this idea came from that every illegal demands handouts but I have never seen this. Most Hispanic immigrants (even legal) seem petrified of asking for any public assistance from my experience.

Why do so many Mexican immigrants come over illegally instead of the legal way you may ask?
1. The immigration process takes a long time.
2. The immigration process is very expensive. http://www.cracked.com/article_18552_so-you-want-to-be-american-5-circles-immigration-hell_p2.html
3. Most of Mexico is poor.
4. Most of Mexico is poorly educated. (In Mexico you are only required to go to the American equivalent of the 8th grade. If I recall correctly this is when you learn long division.)
5. A surprising number of rural Mexican people are completely illiterate. (Imagine the difficulty of a mountain of legal documents for immigration if you are poorly educated and can't read.)
6. Mexico is incredibly corrupt and bribing the right official can mean the difference of your immigration forms finding their way smoothly to the right people or mysteriously disappearing.
7. Certain parts of Mexico are incredibly dangerous with many states under complete drug cartel control. (Imagine your legal immigration recourse when finding the beheaded remains of a government employee and his family in the middle of the street is a common occurrence.)

Wow, this came out longer than I thought.

Before anyone jumps on my throat, I am not saying that we should have open boarders and forced to learn Spanish to accommodate immigrants. I'm not sure what the best solution is. I do know that demonizing immigrants as lazy leaches of society does no one any good.
 

Nokturos

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Nov 17, 2009
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Why would anyone who isn't American sing "America the Beautiful"? Most people in other countries are well aware that America sucks.
 

Aris Khandr

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Nokturos said:
Why would anyone who isn't American sing "America the Beautiful"? Most people in other countries are well aware that America sucks.
They are American. That's pretty much what this whole thread is about, there are Americans who don't speak English and that seems to upset some people.
 

Icehearted

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Jul 14, 2009
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Wasted said:
Icehearted said:
This will be thorny, no matter how it's approached.

Anecdotal experience; most legal emigrants resent illegals, especially for not bothering to become more associated with this country, including learning customs, the language, the history, etc. If I moved to Korea or Germany, I wouldn't have an entitled attitude about how I should be accommodated by them in their own land. Likewise I think that the language of America is primarily English, ironically a lot of it is made of other languages, but American English, in and of itself apparently complex to even our own natively born citizens, is the language. I don't mind concessions, I'm all for diversity, this doesn't offend me, even if the implication is a bit offensive, especially given how other countries thump terms like "sovereignty" on the table whenever America wants to step into things. I mind that people I know were passed up on jobs in America because they didn't speak Spanish or Vietnamese s well as English, and were talking local service and support jobs for companies like ATT and local cable networks.

America is made of immigrants and their descendants, which is what used to make this country uniquely appealing and you can see this all over our map, but if you're choosing to be American why not embrace our ways rather than expect others to accommodate yours?

Pardon my thorns.
I have to speak with my experiences with illegal immigration. One of my relatives was an illegal immigrant that moved to the United States when she was 16 forced by her parents to help support the. Being thrown into a new country with no knowledge of language or culture, she quickly settled into a familiar environment, a Spanish-speaking community. Being stuck in a small town where everyone speaks Spanish does not put pressure on you to learn English any time soon.

She was overwhelmed and was denied to go to school by her father because being the oldest she had to support the family. When looking for a full-time job (remember, she was 16 at this time) she was able to find one with a fake ID and social security number. She became a machinist working on large machines for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Through her job she began to learn more English but she still had a thick accent which embarrassed her, because of this she rarely socialized with her fellow employees. She said she was petrified of being found out and deported, there was not a day she said that she did not fear someone finding out.

She worked like this for around 5 years paying taxes on a name that wasn't even hers, never having the chance to see any of that money. She never got unemployment, disability, food stamps, or any other "hand out" that so many people seem to believe most illegals just demand and receive the second they set foot in this country. Years later she had a family and eventually became a legal citizen through the Regan administration.

Many of my experiences with undocumented people are similar. I'm not sure where this idea came from that every illegal demands handouts but I have never seen this. Most Hispanic immigrants (even legal) seem petrified of asking for any public assistance from my experience.

Why do so many Mexican immigrants come over illegally instead of the legal way you may ask?
1. The immigration process takes a long time.
2. The immigration process is very expensive. http://www.cracked.com/article_18552_so-you-want-to-be-american-5-circles-immigration-hell_p2.html
3. Most of Mexico is poor.
4. Most of Mexico is poorly educated. (In Mexico you are only required to go to the American equivalent of the 8th grade. If I recall correctly this is when you learn long division.)
5. A surprising number of rural Mexican people are completely illiterate. (Imagine the difficulty of a mountain of legal documents for immigration if you are poorly educated and can't read.)
6. Mexico is incredibly corrupt and bribing the right official can mean the difference of your immigration forms finding their way smoothly to the right people or mysteriously disappearing.
7. Certain parts of Mexico are incredibly dangerous with many states under complete drug cartel control. (Imagine your legal immigration recourse when finding the beheaded remains of a government employee and his family in the middle of the street is a common occurrence.)

Wow, this came out longer than I thought.

Before anyone jumps on my throat, I am not saying that we should have open boarders and forced to learn Spanish to accommodate immigrants. I'm not sure what the best solution is. I do know that demonizing immigrants as lazy leaches of society does no one any good.
Not sure how this was a reply to me, but I can confirm that I've seen similar cases as well. I grew up on Southern California and saw entire areas of the city of Los Angeles and San Diego that were neighborhoods predominantly made up of immigrants from one place or another, usually Mexico or the Philippines, but smaller groups from Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, all over really. For some the path to legalization was tricky, mind yo this was decades ago so I don't know how much things have changed. Growing up in these areas, a lot of my closest friends, including my high school girlfriend, were illegal immigrants, many of them had worked to eventually become legal citizens. Fortunately the school system was lenient back then and employers were hiring their parents without any real problems, barring raids in places that exploited them for cheap labor.

On the other hand there was exploitation by some of these illegals that never care to work to become legal and took advantage of the welfare system, openly admitting their children was their income; more babies more money. It was sad, mostly for these kids because you'd have a house for three filled with seven or more people, and it didn't have to be awful if these parent's did more than occupy space, like actually raise their kids. Some of those high school friends of mine turned out well enough despite growing up in this kind of life, some unfortunately did not.

I'm not sure where this idea came from that every illegal demands handouts but I have never seen this. Most Hispanic immigrants (even legal) seem petrified of asking for any public assistance from my experience.
I have, many times. Not only would they learn that having a child meant they could stay in America, they discovered more children meant a bigger welfare check. A school was free daycare, there were food stamps and health care provided for the children, and some of these people were living large; cheap housing, luxury cars, big screen TVs, nice toys for the kids, and all they had to do was breed. Again I saw this in the 80s and 90s so I don't know what it's like these days. My mother was a college Asst. Admin, she saw this more than I did, but mostly because her students were the children of these households, and on RARE occasion the parents of these households.

I really feel like we're getting a bit off track, but I guess that's my 2¢.
 

GonzoGamer

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Blow_Pop said:
GonzoGamer said:
Is it pissing people off or is Faux news getting people all pissed off about it? There's a difference.
*ahem* I would like to direct your attention to these photos which I will nicely spoiler for everyone else and which will answer your question





Not to mention the comics on the coke page itself
And the coke search on twitter
Not to mention this page
What does that mean; that Foxnews Isn't responsible for the whinyness the right wing exhibits about crap like this?
 

Wasted

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Icehearted said:
Sorry didn't mean to use you as an devil's advocate to my point but reading my post back it did come out like that and I apologize. Like you I had a point I wanted to briefly make.

I wanted to mention huge Hispanic population hubs like Los Angeles where the culture of "hand-outs" seems very different from where I live in Chicago but didn't want to open that can of worms.

To make a final point I know many undocumented people and 9 times out of 10 they are very against any form of public aid. Yes I have met people completely exploiting the system and understand how it can be infuriating.

On Topic:

All I can really say is that the reaction to the commercial is incredibly sad.
 

keniakittykat

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It could also be interpreted as such: Coca cola has been an all American icon for almost 200 years in over 200 countries, right? So in a way, it's about sharing a little piece of America with the rest of the world.
 

Raikas

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Icehearted said:
If I moved to Korea or Germany, I wouldn't have an entitled attitude about how I should be accommodated by them in their own land.
You personally might not, but a shocking number of English-speakers (not exclusively Americans, to be fair) do. They declare "it's the world language" and sometimes live in a place for five years without picking up much of the local tongue at all. I'm in a job that involves expat time, and I moved internationally several times as a kid, and the entitlement of Anglophones can be epic.


I mind that people I know were passed up on jobs in America because they didn't speak Spanish or Vietnamese s well as English, and were talking local service and support jobs for companies like ATT and local cable networks.
Why do you mind? I've both worked in and done training for call centres in Canada and India, and in any customer-facing job multilingualism is going to be a benefit. If you have potential customers (or regular customers) who have a number of preferred languages, why wouldn't you want to serve them in the languages you speak? If your goal is to have the service happen smoothly and quickly, why would you want a company to hire people that only speak one language? It baffles me that that's something to object to.
 

Blow_Pop

Supreme Evil Overlord
Jan 21, 2009
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GonzoGamer said:
Blow_Pop said:
GonzoGamer said:
Is it pissing people off or is Faux news getting people all pissed off about it? There's a difference.
*ahem* I would like to direct your attention to these photos which I will nicely spoiler for everyone else and which will answer your question





Not to mention the comics on the coke page itself
And the coke search on twitter
Not to mention this page
What does that mean; that Foxnews Isn't responsible for the whinyness the right wing exhibits about crap like this?
It means that people were getting upset about it literally as it happened. Before foxnews even had a chance to say anything.
 

Icehearted

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Wasted said:
Icehearted said:
Sorry didn't mean to use you as an devil's advocate to my point but reading my post back it did come out like that and I apologize. Like you I had a point I wanted to briefly make.

I wanted to mention huge Hispanic population hubs like Los Angeles where the culture of "hand-outs" seems very different from where I live in Chicago but didn't want to open that can of worms.

To make a final point I know many undocumented people and 9 times out of 10 they are very against any form of public aid. Yes I have met people completely exploiting the system and understand how it can be infuriating.

On Topic:

All I can really say is that the reaction to the commercial is incredibly sad.
Ah, yes, the location would make a difference. We're cool though, appreciate the clarification. I agree with your last point; It's wrongfully controversial, proves we've made progress but still have a long way to go, again kind of like that biracial Cheerios commercial demonstrated.
 

shootthebandit

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Isnt it more amusing that people care more about adverts during the game than the game itself? The fact that an average european cup final (of REAL football, you know the game where you interact with a BALL using your FEET) Will have about 5-10 min of adverts during the 15 min half-time break whereas american football has adverts constantly throughout. Im genuinely not surprised the type of people who watch this drivel are complaining about foreingers, gays and terrorists. Its a sport designed for idiots who literally dont know the difference between a foot and a hand how do you expect them to understand that people from other countries "talk funny"?

Im from the UK and ive not heard anything about this game except that it happened and there was an advert. I dont know any of the players names, why they wear pads playing rugby or why they call a try a "touchdown" but dont actually touch it down like a try. Surely if it was such a significant game there would be more publicity on the game and trying to get us to watch it rather than just hearing about an advert during the game

Really it just shows you that this sport is built around advertising rather than encorporating adverts into a pre-existing sport

N.B. REAL football is far superior and formula 1 is better than NASCAR too