So Bloodborne

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Sleepy Sol

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Fappy said:
I don't think you can fuck it up unless you start the final boss fight before you do what you need to. I dunno, I suppose there might be one way to fuck it up but I am not sure.
Well, I'm still not even at the point where I know exactly what to do to get the 'best' ending. I know the type of items I need, and vaguely the conditions or things I do to get them (I do have one already as well), but I know one of them is related to an NPC and since the world's gone fucking crazy, all the NPCs have gone either catatonic or disappeared. So I'm not sure about that one.
 

Benpasko

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Somekindofgold said:
I beat the blood starved beast this afternoon, which makes him boss 3 for me (though I would probably count Djura as a boss because of how hard he is).
Heh, I took one look at Djura then pushed him off the tower with my cane. You think he was rough, wait until you get to Byrgenwerth. The hunter NPC there nearly had me in tears before I got gud and just gun parried him to death.
 

SecondPrize

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It looks like a game I'd like to play, but I've no intentions of buying a PS4. Hope isn't all lost, DaS was a game that was never going to come to PC and wound up doing so with all DLCs included in the PC edition, so that may work out again.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Digi7 said:
No other series has given me the same tight, bare-bones, a little goofy but utterly engrossing combat without the useless flab and shallow sparkle of a thousand other modern melee combat engines.
I don't feel the combat system is nearly that good though. I was wanting Dark Souls to have combat where every action mattered and had to be thought out due to the stamina system. I quickly found out that I never really had to concern myself with how much stamina I had. With that management out of the game, the combat is extremely simplistic and rather repetitive. Plus, the controls could definitely be better.

Casual Shinji said:
Parrying enemies in Bloodborne is as extraneous as it was in Dark Souls. Unless you're facing the larger, slower enemies, you'll just be firing your gun haphazardly to get a parry, much like spamming that shield bash in Dark Souls. Just like with DK's shield bash parry, it's there for the risk takers to test their mettle. More than anything you'll just be looking for that attack wind-up and then hitting the dodge button, followed by going in for a few quick slashes and backing off again. In that respect it's not too different from playing a ninja build in Dark Souls.
At least so far in Bloodborne (I've only beaten 2 bosses) there's a decent amount of enemies that are worth parrying with the gun. If I choose to not parry, it takes me quite a bit of hits to kill them so chances are I'll probably get hit if I choose to play it safe just dodge and use normal attacks. Dodging has its own risks to begin with whereas shielding is much much safer. The enemy having less attacks on you means less chance of one of them landing. Taking out the bigger, stronger enemies faster is in fact less risky IMO. I played a completely dex-based character (always at 25% weight to roll the fastest) in Dark Souls and I could block just about any enemy's attack, plus I'd be at full stamina after the attack since I'd lower my shield between strikes. Why would parrying ever be a viable option if I'm trying to not die?

Sure, shielding it is the easiest way to go, but claiming that it makes every enemy easy is really stretching it. Sometimes you don't have the choice of fighting one enemy at a time. You can keep your shield up, but that won't stop enemies from bashing away your stamina if you don't get a good feel for the eb and flow of your stamina bar and when to raise or lower your shield. Even with a strong shield and lenghty stamina bar, the stronger enemies have attacks that can bash right through it or knock your shield away. Then there's the enemies that use magic projectiles that circumvent most of your shields defenses.
Because I could block everything with something like the spider shield. I'd hate to see how awesome the big shields were when my small shields were already so awesome. You almost always had the choice to fight 1v1 in Dark Souls. I could completely block the knight's triple sword attack and most bigger enemies even (most boss attacks as well). The game shouldn't have allowed me to block that stuff with the character I was and the shield I was using. Enemy mages were few and far between and the shield would still block magic decently well IIRC, especially when I got the crest shield.
 

hybridial

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Digi7 said:
No other series has given me the same tight, bare-bones, a little goofy but utterly engrossing combat without the useless flab and shallow sparkle of a thousand other modern melee combat engines.
Oh, you mean that combat engine that has you use the same three attack animations to kill everything in the game?

My mind is made up. I beat Dark Souls 1 and 2. I guess I don't "get it" because I felt 2 was objectively better thanks to online code that worked, visuals that were inherently more impressive across the board and some fixes to the RPG systems that definitely made sense.

It still didn't mean it was good. It was still essentially a reskin of an already flawed game.

They aren't good to me. And Bloodborne won't be either. I guess I'm just amused at all the nonsense on the internet of people pretending it's the second coming.
 

SeventhSigil

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hybridial said:
Digi7 said:
No other series has given me the same tight, bare-bones, a little goofy but utterly engrossing combat without the useless flab and shallow sparkle of a thousand other modern melee combat engines.
Oh, you mean that combat engine that has you use the same three attack animations to kill everything in the game?

My mind is made up. I beat Dark Souls 1 and 2. I guess I don't "get it" because I felt 2 was objectively better thanks to online code that worked, visuals that were inherently more impressive across the board and some fixes to the RPG systems that definitely made sense.

It still didn't mean it was good. It was still essentially a reskin of an already flawed game.

They aren't good to me. And Bloodborne won't be either. I guess I'm just amused at all the nonsense on the internet of people pretending it's the second coming.
Well, it does largely come down to perspective, and likely the sheer gap between the two ends of the spectrum between those who don't care for this game, and those who really, really enjoy it. From your perspective, the fact that people consider it to be exceptionally fantastic is nonsense. From the perspective of others (myself included, to be honest,) it's the fact that you don't consider Bloodborne good that seems a fair chunk of nonsense in and of itself. =P

However, to counter the perhaps slightly aggressive declaration above, clearly we both have different itches to scratch (and, as I've never played a Souls game, I honestly didn't even know I HAD these particular itches,) so our wildly different opinions are no doubt due to differing expectations on what would make a game 'grab us.' I don't consider oodles of attack animations to really be a necessity for a solid game, and am quite satisfied with the different heft, weight and feel of Bloodborne's various trick weapons, even if the number of animations per weapon lack, say, God of War's whirling blender approach. By that same token, the combination of pseudo-strategic planning before a fight, and the 'Crapcrapcrap' quick-dashing combat itself is something that engages me to an extent that most other third-person combat titles haven't. (Not to say other such titles are bad, mind you, as I quite enjoyed stuff like Shadows of Mordor, God of War, the Arkham series, etc, etc, etc, it just never quite grabbed me by the short hairs like this does.)

Whatever flaws you might have decided the game has, clearly plenty of people simply aren't bothered by them to the extent you are, and have found qualities in the title that entertain and engage them in a way that simply has no effect upon you. ^_^ I don't think that speaks ill of either them for liking it, or of yourself for not.

(As an addendum, again, never played any of the other Souls titles, so I can't speak for them. ^_^ )
 

default

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hybridial said:
Digi7 said:
No other series has given me the same tight, bare-bones, a little goofy but utterly engrossing combat without the useless flab and shallow sparkle of a thousand other modern melee combat engines.
Oh, you mean that combat engine that has you use the same three attack animations to kill everything in the game?

My mind is made up. I beat Dark Souls 1 and 2. I guess I don't "get it" because I felt 2 was objectively better thanks to online code that worked, visuals that were inherently more impressive across the board and some fixes to the RPG systems that definitely made sense.

It still didn't mean it was good. It was still essentially a reskin of an already flawed game.

They aren't good to me. And Bloodborne won't be either. I guess I'm just amused at all the nonsense on the internet of people pretending it's the second coming.
Meh. Like I said, it's not to everyone's taste. I admire the simplicity and purity. The combat system has basically everything it needs and nothing more.

The visuals in Dark Souls 2 are better for the most part for sure, but the aesthetics, design and atmosphere are nowhere near the same ballpark as the previous games in terms of sophistication (but that's entirely subjective). The netcode was definitely better and so were some of the fixes to the RPG systems. But Dark Souls 2 fucked up so much across the board compared to DS1 and Demon's Souls I'm not even going to get into it.

But yep, in general, looks like the Souls games just aren't your cup of tea. Oh well, you're really missing out dude.
 

Ishal

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JagermanXcell said:
but holy crap... why is there no frame drops? Why is one's own personal skill and stats finally perfectly separated? WHY IS THIS GAME SO GOOD?!
Glad you're enjoying it.

I don't have it, so have been watching ENB's playthrough. I'm coming around on the setting, initially I wasn't feeling it. But I assure you there are tech issues. Game is not optimized well at all, at least in some places.

So far Old Yharnam seems to be a hotspot of tech issues. Everything I've seen confirms this, multiple videos and streams. Big map with view of future level areas, distant plumes of smoke KILLS fps. With friends, even moreso.
 

JagermanXcell

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Ishal said:
JagermanXcell said:
but holy crap... why is there no frame drops? Why is one's own personal skill and stats finally perfectly separated? WHY IS THIS GAME SO GOOD?!
Glad you're enjoying it.

I don't have it, so have been watching ENB's playthrough. I'm coming around on the setting, initially I wasn't feeling it. But I assure you there are tech issues. Game is not optimized well at all, at least in some places.

So far Old Yharnam seems to be a hotspot of tech issues. Everything I've seen confirms this, multiple videos and streams. Big map with view of future level areas, distant plumes of smoke KILLS fps. With friends, even moreso.
You also need to take Youtube's poor handling of fps/video quality into account. But yes, if you do watch some really good streamings of the game, I can confirm to you that you're right in that Old Yharnam does have issues online and off. Great area, but it needs to be put through the patch ringer indefinitely.

Otherwise, the later areas of the game are running surprisingly fine. Places like the Hemwick Forest, that should be suffocating tech wise, are brilliantly held together.
 

Casual Shinji

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Ishal said:
I don't have it, so have been watching ENB's playthrough. I'm coming around on the setting, initially I wasn't feeling it. But I assure you there are tech issues. Game is not optimized well at all, at least in some places.

So far Old Yharnam seems to be a hotspot of tech issues. Everything I've seen confirms this, multiple videos and streams. Big map with view of future level areas, distant plumes of smoke KILLS fps. With friends, even moreso.
Youtube amplifies the frame rate issues. I've seen a couple of videos too, and they look way worse than when you're actually playing it.

The only tech issues I've noticed as of yet are the frame rate drops in the area with the pires, which is thankfully only one smal section, and the big towns folk gathering at the bonfire at the very start of the game, where if you look at it from a far you'll notice the animation on some of the enemies are missing a few frames. I've hooked up with other players three times now and haven't noticed a dip in the slightest. It's certainly not like Dark Souls where the choppy frame rate actually made you scared to move across narrow walkways.
 

Hugga_Bear

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Phoenixmgs said:
Because I could block everything with something like the spider shield. I'd hate to see how awesome the big shields were when my small shields were already so awesome. You almost always had the choice to fight 1v1 in Dark Souls. I could completely block the knight's triple sword attack and most bigger enemies even (most boss attacks as well). The game shouldn't have allowed me to block that stuff with the character I was and the shield I was using. Enemy mages were few and far between and the shield would still block magic decently well IIRC, especially when I got the crest shield.
Did you go through the entire game like this? So you circle back-stabbed Ornstein and Smough, casually blocking their attacks with the spider shield?
I'm guessing you never did any PvP either? Didn't get invaded once by an even semi-competent player?

I've played a lot of Souls, made all the chars I can think of that aren't silly (and a few that are). Inevitably I ended up using the shields less and less, most of my builds in 1 and 2 avoid a shield entirely, damn thing just slows you down when the invaders come (or when you invade).

Maybe it's because you didn't PvP very much or if you did and those tactics worked on other players (as well as the bosses) then...who the hell were you fighting?! Even being a pretty skilled player I couldn't just sit behind a shield, that'd be absurd, the people who did died horrible deaths against me.
There's a reason the '1337' players end up dodging and dropping shields altogether in most cases...
 

Benpasko

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I'm a bit further in now, not sure if I even want to keep playing (I will of course, just not today). There are way more one-hit-kills than the souls games, and having to go back and farm for blood vials in central Yarn AGAIN sucks. At this point I've got Nightmare Frontier to go through, and the Vacuous Spider to fight, and I really don't wanna do either. Spider wouldn't be so bad, but I've never found a single co-op player in that zone, despite HOURS of looking.

Can someone tell me how to dodge that red spell that the tentacle mushroom things in Frontier cast? Killing them doesn't do it, and I haven't noticed a visible projectile when it kicks in and kills me. I've thrown 4 attempts at figuring it out now, and it's an undodgable instakill as far as I can tell.

It's not unusual to miss all the sidequests in a souls game on the first playthrough, but Bloodborne is especially opaque when it comes to that stuff. "Where's everyone getting that greatsword? Oh, I see, once you kill a certain boss an unrelated door 3 zones over unlocks without telling you," is not a good feeling.
 

Fappy

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Benpasko said:
I'm a bit further in now, not sure if I even want to keep playing (I will of course, just not today). There are way more one-hit-kills than the souls games, and having to go back and farm for blood vials in central Yarn AGAIN sucks.
What is your Vitality? There are some instant kills in the game, but not many at all unless you have meager HP to begin with.

At this point I've got Nightmare Frontier to go through, and the Vacuous Spider to fight, and I really don't wanna do either. Spider wouldn't be so bad, but I've never found a single co-op player in that zone, despite HOURS of looking.
Likely a bug with the recent PSN update. If you ever suspend the software and put the console in rest mode it breaks online until you reboot the software. Try that and see if you can find people.

Can someone tell me how to dodge that red spell that the tentacle mushroom things in Frontier cast? Killing them doesn't do it, and I haven't noticed a visible projectile when it kicks in and kills me. I've thrown 4 attempts at figuring it out now, and it's an undodgable instakill as far as I can tell.
These guys play off Lovecraft lore. That giant hit that is instant killing you? That's your Frenzy meter filling up because you have spent too much time looking at them and going insane. The best strategy for these guys is to wear Frenzy resist gear (optional) and zerg them hard. If the meter gets close to filling use a Sedative which cures your Frenzy. Also keep in mind that the more Insight you have the more vulnerable to Frenzy you are. These guys really aren't so bad once you figure them out and my character had enough Vitality to survive one Frenzy hit at around 50 Insight.

It's not unusual to miss all the sidequests in a souls game on the first playthrough, but Bloodborne is especially opaque when it comes to that stuff. "Where's everyone getting that greatsword? Oh, I see, once you kill a certain boss an unrelated door 3 zones over unlocks without telling you," is not a good feeling.
I am pretty sure DS1 had really cryptic stuff too, it's just that this game is brand new so people haven't figured it all out yet.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Hugga_Bear said:
Did you go through the entire game like this? So you circle back-stabbed Ornstein and Smough, casually blocking their attacks with the spider shield?
I'm guessing you never did any PvP either? Didn't get invaded once by an even semi-competent player?

I've played a lot of Souls, made all the chars I can think of that aren't silly (and a few that are). Inevitably I ended up using the shields less and less, most of my builds in 1 and 2 avoid a shield entirely, damn thing just slows you down when the invaders come (or when you invade).

Maybe it's because you didn't PvP very much or if you did and those tactics worked on other players (as well as the bosses) then...who the hell were you fighting?! Even being a pretty skilled player I couldn't just sit behind a shield, that'd be absurd, the people who did died horrible deaths against me.
There's a reason the '1337' players end up dodging and dropping shields altogether in most cases...
Why does every Dark Souls fan have to big up Ornstein and Smough? Just because there's a few enemies my dex character couldn't block well, that makes everything OK? My character shouldn't be able to fully block any enemy's attack that is stronger than me. For example, the knights and crystal golems, I shouldn't have been able to block. That's what a strength character with big shields should be able to do. The fact is outside of a few rare enemies, I can use the same strategy (that I shouldn't be able to use to begin with) to beat basically every enemy. Different enemy types should force different strategies on the player like any other good combat game. And no, I didn't circle strafe every enemy because that takes too damn long. The fact that I was able to block pretty much anything and be a full stamina afterwards makes the game super easy as having the safety of being able to block without fear of losing health is HUGE.

Why would I care about PvP when the game's combat IMO wasn't all that good? Whenever I did get invaded, players always had way better shit and were ninja flipping around because of the stupid ring, their characters were design for PvP, mine wasn't (my main heavy hitter, the Lightning Spear, was easily avoided by human players). And Dark Souls doesn't even have a respec option so there's no way I'm going to start a new game and build a character just to TRY PvP. The game's actual enemies should be a challenge, playing other people shouldn't be the way to get a challenge from a mainly single player game.

Bloodborne fixes so many things wrong with the Souls games. Playing without a shield in Bloodborne is a lot better than Dark Souls. Also, I shouldn't have to gimp myself in a game to get a challenge like not playing with a shield in Dark Souls (which was designed to be played with said shields). The dodge in Bloodborne is a way better; the enemies are faster, you're faster, the game just plays so much better. Due to Bloodborne basically having one type of playstyle, all the amateur RPG mistakes From makes are no longer present. I'm sure there's probably some cheap ways to play in Bloodborne but just doing something like strafing or using a bow and arrow shouldn't break the game.
 

jhoroz

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Really enjoying it. Yarnham has already surpassed Lordran and Drangleic in terms of design, intricacy and atmosphere. Exploring and finding short cuts is really satisfying. The trick weapons are a lot of fun. I'm using the threaded cane, kirk hammer and spear gun. The intricacy and badassness of the weapons more than make up for the less amount of weapons. But as people have mentioned, there are some serious technical issues. Loading times are a pain, the "bonfire" system is a downgrade compared to DS and having to go farm blood viles can be a real pain in the ass. There also occasional frame drops and some glaring pop ups (this has been happening a lot during night time) as well as missing textures. I hope these get patched or at least put a more interesting loading screens. With the exception of the Cleric Beast, bosses have been pretty fun and exhilarating. Not as hard as DS bosses, but I feel that has to do more with the janky gameplay from those fights rather than actual difficulty. Some of the NPCs and lore tidbits I've encountered are really interesting and if not downright horrifying and depressing (guess who I sent to Iosefca's Clinic by mistake :/). Currently at the Forbidden Forest. Taking a bit of a brake after playing 7 hours straight.
 

MerlinCross

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Phoenixmgs said:
Bloodborne fixes so many things wrong with the Souls games. Playing without a shield in Bloodborne is a lot better than Dark Souls. Also, I shouldn't have to gimp myself in a game to get a challenge like not playing with a shield in Dark Souls (which was designed to be played with said shields). The dodge in Bloodborne is a way better; the enemies are faster, you're faster, the game just plays so much better. Due to Bloodborne basically having one type of playstyle, all the amateur RPG mistakes From makes are no longer present. I'm sure there's probably some cheap ways to play in Bloodborne but just doing something like strafing or using a bow and arrow shouldn't break the game.
But that's what I hate about Bloodborne, the one play style. There's no variation. You either run STR or DEX now. Sure shields are gone but armor is basically useless too. The first armor you're able to find replaces your starter and there's very little reason to change that out. And since guns are useless for anything besides the parry mechanic why use them for combat, especially since you have a smaller ammo pool. Since spells aren't in the game along with the fact that anything arcane based takes forever to get a hold of, why try to run that UNLESS you want to gimp yourself.

Health and Stamina, STR or DEX Melee. That is all you will be running unless you want to gimp yourself. But we wouldn't want to gimp ourselves now would we? Yeah you can't cheese the game but variety is dead from the word go.
 

Sleepy Sol

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So I'm at the final boss. And I can't beat it. I've tried so many times, and I cannot do it. This will be the fight that breaks my controller.

I can't actually get the 'secret' ending, as I missed Arianna. So that felt terrible. But at this rate I'll never see the ending by myself anyways. He just...keeps kicking my ass. edit: I lied. I finally beat him after 30 or so attempts. I wasn't counting. And I played it near perfectly. This fight just...soured my view about the game. Probably unfairly. But I'm done with it now, thank the lord.