So, dat Korra huh? [SPOILER QUARANTINE ZONE: DO NOT ENTER!]

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NinjaDeathSlap

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Yes, I know that there's already a review and a independent thread about this, but I wanted to make more than just a comment and hopefully I have enough different things to say to validate having this here, anyway...

First of all, that was one hell of a two-parter! As good as the finale of TLA? No, but in all honesty it would be impossible for Korra to deliver the same kind of weight as the original, and I won't judge it on expectations it could never be expected to reach. That's just the hand most spin-off's are dealt from the beginning, and Korra is no exception. For what it's worth, it did hit a lot of the same bases as the original. The threat was satisfyingly huge (literally); the action was turned up to eleven; there were both comedic and dark moments in between that worked in equal measure; everyone got their fair share of hero moments great and small; and the whole thing was capped off in a way that left me feeling very satisfied.

If I have a lot of the same praises for both finales, then I also have the same major criticisms. If anything, the bow at the end is tied a little too neatly, and while it's not quite correct to call Korra's ending a deus ex machina, like Avatar's was, I still think it's really lame that a villain who's already gone so far off the deep end as Kuvira is talked down after a 60 second counselling session from Korra. Bah, humbug! It's a step down in my view from properly dark moments such as the death of Amon in Book 1, which still stands out for me as a highlight of the show, because it was a brave and appropriate departure in tone from its parent series. I'll admit I kind of winced every time someone used the words "taken out/down" or "destroyed" in this show. I think even the youngest members of Korra's audience are comfortable with the idea that death exists, so there's really no need to beat around the bush. Hell, even TLA, which was generally intended for a younger audience, seemed more comfortable with using the 'K' word.

That's my general overview, but the real reason I made this thread is the talk about the very last moments. If you've seen the show, you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you haven't, then what the hell are you doing here?! Didn't you read the big letters?!

I was sceptical about the prospect of 'Korrasami', when other people started clamouring for it. This isn't because I object to the idea of seeing a romantic relationship between two women in a kids show, far from it. In fact, I was against the idea because I didn't think it would feel natural, that the writers didn't have what it takes to pull it off, given how romance always seemed to me like the weak link for storytelling in the Avatar universe, and that it would come off a cynical fan-service at best, or schoolboy snickering at worst. I thought the two characters worked as friends, and for the show to attempt matchmaking with them could spoil that, especially seem as neither character had shown any prior romantic interest in women. I didn't want to see two strong female characters in their own right to be reduced to something barely better than fan-fiction.

Well, I make this thread to say I was w... wru... wrruurnngg (sorry I struggle with this word sometimes) wr-wrong! I was wrong!

The imagery was explicit enough not to be just another sly wink at the audience. I don't think anybody old enough to have been aware of the Korrasami thing before now could say that that was platonic, but it also felt like an entirely natural, endearing moment. Maybe the message would have been more powerful if we had seen them kiss, but I think that would have felt A) Out of left field, and B) Too much like copying the image of Aang and Katara at the end of TLA (another romance that I was never entirely sold on either). What I'm trying to say is, it didn't feel like they were chickening out by not having them kiss on camera. Rather, it just felt like the right thing to do for those characters in that moment, and it left me smiling rather than rolling my eyes. Also, regardless of whether or not they could have gone further, for the younger members of the audience I think the image of two women holding hands and it not being in any way weird is still a good thing.

If the creators really are walking away for good, they've certainly left on a high note, though of course I'd be more than willing to throw money at any continuation of the universe (if Dark Horse could do a Korra comic like the generally excellent Avatar ones they've done, that'd be swell). If not, then I see myself frequently revisiting both shows on DVD in the future. That's my two cents on the thing, what about yours?
 

TheRookie8

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Agreed. It was tastefully done, and in a manner that satisfies a wide variety of viewers.

Worth noting: Although I am glad Mako survived, I wonder what could have happened with his death. His whole character is that he is dedicated; to his job, and to his friends...to an extent it left him often socially awkward. Having him go out in the line of duty would have been a hero's death, and would have been a whole new development for Bolin to endure. That, and his death would impact both Korra and Asami...something they could both grieve for. Still, glad he survived.

Oh, and Varrick and Zhu Li made this whole season.
 

The Madman

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It was a good show, even great at times. I really liked season 1's almost noir vibe, rushed though the conclusion to the season might have felt, and even if season 2 was pretty weak by comparison the third season more than made up for that with easily some of the best action and intensity in the entire Avatar franchise. The last four episodes of season 3 were seriously gripping, you've got regicide followed up by a main character getting the shit beaten out of him in an epic fight, followed by a confrontation between Korra and Zaheer that was thrilling to say the least. Seriously, that entire fight with P'li and the metal-clan as well as Korra and her father vs. Zaheer was incredible to watch. And dat music!!


Plus the whole mercury poison thing, damn, that was dark. Far more than I expected from what's supposedly a family show. And even if it's never explicitly shown one of the main villains getting her head blown off... jeez, what is it with combustion benders and dying horrifically? Sparky Sparky Boom Man's death was only slightly less visceral.

Season 4 meanwhile was also pretty damned good. I don't think it really reached the same sort of intensity that season 3 managed and some of the later episodes I felt kinda fell flat. I'm not a fan of the whole 'giant mech' idea which I thought was corny, but the action was still intense (Suyin vs. Kuvira was an amazing fight, short as it was) and what's more there was some serious emotion in Season 4. Varrick and Bolin both also really shined this season, I never really liked Bolin too much since he was consistently so silly, but by the end of season 4 he became one of my favourites as did Varrick.

Meanwhile everyone's all talking about the Korrasami stuff, but honestly my favourite moment of season 4 was still the Korra Alone episode. An episode with relatively little fighting in it and yet it was easily one of the most compelling episodes of the entire show. All of Avatar even I would say. I freakin' love that episode! It's well paced, well written, gorgeous to look at, covers subject matter I've never really seen a cartoon even try to explore, and not only made me feel for Korra but displayed some excellent character growth as well.

The ending by contrast was merely alright. I liked it well enough and I was left satisfied, but it lacked (For me) both the intensity of season 3's climax as well as the emotional drive of the seasons earlier episodes like Korra Alone. It was still a good note to end the series on, but it's not the defining moment of the show for me. Not even close.

What a great series Avatar has been for me to watch. I'm really glad I finally started watching it earlier this year and it's sad to think that so soon after having just found it it's ending already.
 

crazygameguy4ever

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it was the weakest season of the 4 seasons of Korra, sue to not as good writing, problems with Nickelodeon and running out of ideas. Still not sure how people are misunderstanding the ending and thinking that the two straight best friend characters(Korra and Asami) are gay or bi,when their not... the creators should have not even given people a foothold to think their gay and just had Korra and Mako (who clearly still had feelings for each other still) get back together it would have squashed any doubts a lot of people have been having.

As I said somewhere else they should have ended it with season 3 by having a another episode where Korra recovered after a time gap and have her fully embrace her role as Avatar as she got back together with Mako.would have been better in the long run. to end on a high note of a good season rather then end after a mediocre season plagued by problems.
 

AtenSet

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Look at it this way: the prior relationships didn't work and the show had been forced off the air. What better way to get back on the radar than by taking advantage of tumblr, SJWs (modern family has to get awards for some reason)and filthy internet shippers?
 

NoX 9

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Such a great ending, I'm really happy about it. Watching the later seasons of the show I've often been thinking about what a great couple Korra and Asami would make. I have to be honest though -with the past romances of the show in mind I didn't expect it at all! When the scene with Korra sitting by her self near the water started I was certain Mako would come over and start some awkward romance again. I was actually hovering over the 'close tab' button and about to click it and spare myself when I saw it was Tenzin and then Asami who came.

I'm gona fangirl over this for a long time, I'm certain of it X3.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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NoX 9 said:
Such a great ending, I'm really happy about it. Watching the later seasons of the show I've often been thinking about what a great couple Korra and Asami would make. I have to be honest though -with the past romances of the show in mind I didn't expect it at all! When the scene with Korra sitting by her self near the water started I was certain Mako would come over and start some awkward romance again. I was actually hovering over the 'close tab' button and about to click it and spare myself when I saw it was Tenzin and then Asami who came.

I'm gona fangirl over this for a long time, I'm certain of it X3.
I'll say this for Mako and Korra, I thought they were actually a pretty realistic depiction of how a lot of relationships don't work out. Nothing revelatory or soap-opera-ish had to happen (although bringing back the love triangle with Asami in Book 2 was NOT a good idea), and they didn't just arbitrarily fall out of love with each-other one day. They were two people who cared about each-other, but had priorities that were just too different to reconcile. They were a good example of a bad match... if that makes any sense.
 

Drathnoxis

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Hahahaha, what?? Korra and Asami get together? I haven't watched the show since season 2, but that sounds like one of the dumbest pairings since Bulma/Vegeta (okay, maybe not that bad). Frankly, I'm not a fan of late game sexuality switches with absolutely no foreshadowing -- like Willow from Buffy. They always feel like pandering, because they always are.

And that is so typical of American entertainment. You just can't have an aggressive female character without her being gay.
EDIT: I was considering adding a sarcastic quip here that said "what else? did they cut her hair short too?" but didn't because I really didn't think they would make her so stereotypical. Now I've found out that is exactly what they did! Wow, how can anybody applaud this decision when it is so cliche?
 

laggyteabag

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Drathnoxis said:
Hahahaha, what?? Korra and Asami get together? I haven't watched the show since season 2, but that sounds like one of the dumbest pairings since Bulma/Vegeta (okay, maybe not that bad). Frankly, I'm not a fan of late game sexuality switches with absolutely no foreshadowing -- like Willow from Buffy. They always feel like pandering, because they always are.

And that is so typical of American entertainment. You just can't have an aggressive female character without her being gay.
Basically, after Book 2, Korra and Asami start to bond over the fact that they both were with Mako, and it didn't work out for either of them. During the course of Book 3, they get closer and closer until at the end of Book 3 and during Book 4, they start to make subtle hints that Korra and Asami could be a thing. Its not a sudden transition from there being nothing between them to them suddenly being together, and there isn't even a confirmation at the end, just a very strong indication that they might be together. I think that putting them together was actually a pretty good move in the end, but it was definitely fan service. No question about that.
 

RandV80

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Laggyteabag said:
Drathnoxis said:
Hahahaha, what?? Korra and Asami get together? I haven't watched the show since season 2, but that sounds like one of the dumbest pairings since Bulma/Vegeta (okay, maybe not that bad). Frankly, I'm not a fan of late game sexuality switches with absolutely no foreshadowing -- like Willow from Buffy. They always feel like pandering, because they always are.

And that is so typical of American entertainment. You just can't have an aggressive female character without her being gay.
Basically, after Book 2, Korra and Asami start to bond over the fact that they both were with Mako, and it didn't work out for either of them. During the course of Book 3, they get closer and closer until at the end of Book 3 and during Book 4, they start to make subtle hints that Korra and Asami could be a thing. Its not a sudden transition from there being nothing between them to them suddenly being together, and there isn't even a confirmation at the end, just a very strong indication that they might be together. I think that putting them together was actually a pretty good move in the end, but it was definitely fan service. No question about that.
Or how I like to look it at, Mako is like a young George Costanza with the subtle ability to turn women into lesbians!
 

laggyteabag

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RandV80 said:
Laggyteabag said:
Drathnoxis said:
Hahahaha, what?? Korra and Asami get together? I haven't watched the show since season 2, but that sounds like one of the dumbest pairings since Bulma/Vegeta (okay, maybe not that bad). Frankly, I'm not a fan of late game sexuality switches with absolutely no foreshadowing -- like Willow from Buffy. They always feel like pandering, because they always are.

And that is so typical of American entertainment. You just can't have an aggressive female character without her being gay.
Basically, after Book 2, Korra and Asami start to bond over the fact that they both were with Mako, and it didn't work out for either of them. During the course of Book 3, they get closer and closer until at the end of Book 3 and during Book 4, they start to make subtle hints that Korra and Asami could be a thing. Its not a sudden transition from there being nothing between them to them suddenly being together, and there isn't even a confirmation at the end, just a very strong indication that they might be together. I think that putting them together was actually a pretty good move in the end, but it was definitely fan service. No question about that.
Or how I like to look it at, Mako is like a young George Costanza with the subtle ability to turn women into lesbians!
Well, yeah. That too. It seems that the only person that did like him around was Prince Wu.

Maybe he just has the ability to turn people into homosexuals.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Drathnoxis said:
Hahahaha, what?? Korra and Asami get together? I haven't watched the show since season 2, but that sounds like one of the dumbest pairings since Bulma/Vegeta (okay, maybe not that bad). Frankly, I'm not a fan of late game sexuality switches with absolutely no foreshadowing -- like Willow from Buffy. They always feel like pandering, because they always are.

And that is so typical of American entertainment. You just can't have an aggressive female character without her being gay.
That's kinda what I thought, when I first heard the idea at about the halfway point of the last season. While their friendship has become more prominent since Book 3, and there were a couple of little moments that could have been slightly slanted in that direction, it still seemed like a whole lot of wishful thinking from shippers to me, and that it would be pandering at best, and creepy at worst.

The more I think about it though, the more I undermine my original position. Maybe the miracle is in the execution, but I think it turned out to be a good thing that it wasn't too broadly telegraphed, because it didn't feel like the laboured, teen-drama approach to romance that the show normally offers. It felt organic and sincere. The show didn't script itself for these two to be together regardless of whether or not they were compatible, the show figured out they were compatible by letting the characters be themselves. Also, the fact that they've both dated guys and presumably no women in the past is of little relevance, because that's not actually how sexuality works. You can develop feelings for people of the same sex as you without meaning to or identifying as anything. No Prior Proof of Lesbianism is required for two women to enter into a relationship if they find themselves romantically attracted to each-other, and neither are any past heterosexual relationships invalidated by it.

I'm sure there was at least a small part of the decision that was based on fan-service. Almost everything is in the internet age. However, it didn't feel like the only or anywhere near the most important factor in the decision.
 

Mr Companion

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crazygameguy4ever said:
it was the weakest season of the 4 seasons of Korra, sue to not as good writing, problems with Nickelodeon and running out of ideas. Still not sure how people are misunderstanding the ending and thinking that the two straight best friend characters(Korra and Asami) are gay or bi,when their not... the creators should have not even given people a foothold to think their gay and just had Korra and Mako (who clearly still had feelings for each other still) get back together it would have squashed any doubts a lot of people have been having.

As I said somewhere else they should have ended it with season 3 by having a another episode where Korra recovered after a time gap and have her fully embrace her role as Avatar as she got back together with Mako.would have been better in the long run. to end on a high note of a good season rather then end after a mediocre season plagued by problems.
I'm sure people have already explained a lot of why they think the relationship is canon but it's best to think of it this way.

A: Often gay people are not aware they are gay until they go through some relationships with the opposite sex and realize it doesn't work, or in Korra's case basically one relationship with the same guy and a side with another guy for about a day.
B: What I took away from the scene is that the two characters are not fully consious of the fact that they have such a powerful connection to eachother, they seem to have a strong desire to spend time alone with eachother, even to the point of excluding anybody else from joining them. My opinion is that the ending isn't "They were lesbians the whole tiiime!" but that if Korra was to ever find a stable relationship? It would probably be with Asami. I would go as far as to argue that if the implications were intentional then it's by far the best and most subtly written romance in the show.

I'm not sure why some people insist on Mako and Korra. They are proven to not work together at all. They both admit it so I don't know why people insist on it. Is it because Mako is the nearest grizzled white male hunk with a dark past and a brooding nature? Perhaps.
 
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Mr Companion said:
Is it because Mako is the nearest grizzled white male hunk with a dark past and a brooding nature? Perhaps.
To be fair, he's actually yellow. So. Yeah.

More seriously, I imagine some of the appeal has to be purely visual. They look good next to each other. People have paired/trioed/orgied off characters for stranger reasons. Korra and Tahno, for instance, because of... reasons?
 

Drathnoxis

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
Also, the fact that they've both dated guys and presumably no women in the past is of little relevance, because that's not actually how sexuality works. You can develop feelings for people of the same sex as you without meaning to or identifying as anything. No Prior Proof of Lesbianism is required for two women to enter into a relationship if they find themselves romantically attracted to each-other, and neither are any past heterosexual relationships invalidated by it.
I'm not going to discuss Legend of Korra and the foreshadowing that may or may not be there after season 2 because as I've said I couldn't stand to watch any more of the show, but I still want to address this part of your argument.

If you were referring to real people in our world you would be right. However, because this is fiction where anything can be written without regard for logical progression, extra care must be taken to ensure that proper build up for major events and changes. The fact that the term Deus ex Machina exists in regards to fiction is proof of this.

This is why Avatar: The Last Airbender was so good, nearly everything was foreshadowed in some way, even minor characters. In 'Zuko Alone', Zuko considers stealing food from a family, but stops when he realizes that the woman is pregnant. This same pregnant couple comes back in 'The Serpent's pass' and helps Aang get over his Appa issues by having the baby.

It's this attention to continuity that makes the show feel real. But feeling real is very different to being real. In reality it would be an amazing coincidence for both Zuko and Aang to come across the same pregnant couple. However, in real life, the set-up of all events are implicit, there could not be a pregnant couple there to help Aang if there didn't already exist that pregnant couple, but in fiction the pregnant couple does not exist until the writer inserts them into the story so the continuity must be exaggerated to give weight to their existence.

This goes for all character traits, including sexuality. In real life people can and do change from straight to gay relationships and suffer great confusion about there sexuality. However, in fiction the confusion must be shown and there has to be a reason given for the change or else the conversion has no weight, the character traits become meaningless, and suspension of disbelief is lost.
 

The Night Shade

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The show was great, seasons 1 and 3 are the best 4 is not as good as the other two, but the second season was the lamest although not bad at all.
As i said before i prefer korra over Ang i think she's more interesting as a character, i liked the dark moments in the series like the poison and various deaths that ocurred on the show. Some of the Atla characters made a comeback which was great.
The ending was good i think it tied things nicely and it didn't feel forced, Asami and Korra have great chemistry which made the whole love relationship plausible for me.
 

Methodia Chicken

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Drathnoxis said:
NinjaDeathSlap said:
Also, the fact that they've both dated guys and presumably no women in the past is of little relevance, because that's not actually how sexuality works. You can develop feelings for people of the same sex as you without meaning to or identifying as anything. No Prior Proof of Lesbianism is required for two women to enter into a relationship if they find themselves romantically attracted to each-other, and neither are any past heterosexual relationships invalidated by it.
I'm not going to discuss Legend of Korra and the foreshadowing that may or may not be there after season 2 because as I've said I couldn't stand to watch any more of the show, but I still want to address this part of your argument.

If you were referring to real people in our world you would be right. However, because this is fiction where anything can be written without regard for logical progression, extra care must be taken to ensure that proper build up for major events and changes. The fact that the term Deus ex Machina exists in regards to fiction is proof of this.

This is why Avatar: The Last Airbender was so good, nearly everything was foreshadowed in some way, even minor characters. In 'Zuko Alone', Zuko considers stealing food from a family, but stops when he realizes that the woman is pregnant. This same pregnant couple comes back in 'The Serpent's pass' and helps Aang get over his Appa issues by having the baby.

It's this attention to continuity that makes the show feel real. But feeling real is very different to being real. In reality it would be an amazing coincidence for both Zuko and Aang to come across the same pregnant couple. However, in real life, the set-up of all events are implicit, there could not be a pregnant couple there to help Aang if there didn't already exist that pregnant couple, but in fiction the pregnant couple does not exist until the writer inserts them into the story so the continuity must be exaggerated to give weight to their existence.

This goes for all character traits, including sexuality. In real life people can and do change from straight to gay relationships and suffer great confusion about there sexuality. However, in fiction the confusion must be shown and there has to be a reason given for the change or else the conversion has no weight, the character traits become meaningless, and suspension of disbelief is lost.
I agree completely that an unforeshadowed shift in any charcater's identity sexual or otherwise especially in something as clear as a romance plot is a bad move of storytelling, and sadly without telegraphing conflicted feelings or an internal monologue a strictly realistic representation of sexuality should take a back seat to a better presentation of a character (which should be noted is not unrealistic. just less realistic).

However Korra's sexuality in regards to the relationship was not a crucial factor, when all's said and done the story of her and Asami's relationship is rewarding and well told whatever level of romance you interpret, there is no need to foreshadow anything as there is potentially nothing to foreshadow. Leaving it open to the audience in every respect I think is the best thing they could have done. it's only when believing your interpretation is the only one (no matter how far it leaned that way) that problems arise as both were fairly well suggested by the actions of the characters.

Also someone said Mako should have died in a heroic sacrifice. which I totally agree with other than who will look after prince Wu now that he's not king/emperor?
 

NoX 9

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
I'll say this for Mako and Korra, I thought they were actually a pretty realistic depiction of how a lot of relationships don't work out. Nothing revelatory or soap-opera-ish had to happen (although bringing back the love triangle with Asami in Book 2 was NOT a good idea), and they didn't just arbitrarily fall out of love with each-other one day. They were two people who cared about each-other, but had priorities that were just too different to reconcile. They were a good example of a bad match... if that makes any sense.
I suppose... To me Mako was way too much just 'the love interest', starting in the very first episode! Especially in the start I felt like they spent way too much time affirming his position as the 'cool brooding sexy dude' to give him much of any character development. Introducing a love triangle with his boring-ass -uhm- ass involved didn't help matters! At least in the later seasons they did more more interesting stuff with him, but he's atill one of my least favorite characters in Korra.

But they certainly were a bad match, I can't deny that! I can sort of even see some paralells to my own awkward early love-life. Maybe it's not such a bad part of the show after all... I still cringe every time I watch it though.

Drathnoxis said:
Hahahaha, what?? Korra and Asami get together? I haven't watched the show since season 2, but that sounds like one of the dumbest pairings since Bulma/Vegeta (okay, maybe not that bad). Frankly, I'm not a fan of late game sexuality switches with absolutely no foreshadowing -- like Willow from Buffy. They always feel like pandering, because they always are.
Maybe you should watch S3 and S4 then, before declaing what happens in the very last episode of the show to have had "no foreshadowing"... Come on.