So, did anyone find the Dragon's Crown review by polygon actually useful?

[rbstewart7263]

It was an opinion from her perspective. People who find themselves similar to or can relate to the reviewer would have found it useful.

The review presented a perspective on the game, as do all reviews. Just because that perspective is different to yours, doesn't mean that it should be criticized any more than any other article. As far as I'm concerned, she made her points and argued them with evidence. I respect her point of view and now I know the certain issues that the game can raise in regards to a female game journalist's perspective, or more "usefully", an intelligent female gamer's perspective.

I think the amount of criticism is extremely unwarranted. Why is it that when a female puts fourth an argument and her opinion of a game, we criticize it and treat it considerably differently than when it's a male journalist? It's like we're somehow offended, and that doesn't really look right in terms of how we present ourselves as a community.

If you are a feminist and you are interested in games, then the Polygon Dragon's Crown review is for you. No doubt the art style raises the issue itself, so Polygon's decision to have their feminist journalist review it was more than appropriate. How about we conduct ourselves in a more civil manner?

Dude people hated on kotaku when that dude called kamitanis designs made from "14 year olds". Perhaps personal bias has colored your perception?

 

[ProtoChimp]

Its great seeing some people just not taking on reason and refusing to so they can continue to keep hating on the Polygon reviewer. Love our community.

 

[sethisjimmy]

I haven't been following this story that closely, so I'm probably missing something, but why are people upset about the Polygon review when our very own Escapist review gave it an even lower score?

 

[Smeatza]

Next up, a socialist's review on monopoly, then a member of the Westborough Babtist Church reviews the local gay bars.

We could be witnessing the invention of a new type of comedy review.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I didn't know about the NPCs in the game until I read the Polygon review, and it mentioned that for people who aren't genre veterans it can be a repetitive slog.

 

[Calcium]

Well, the review seems to be saying...

The character classes cater to a variety of playstyles.
Plays best when you have mutliple classes supporting each other, and if you don't want to play with people you can play with AI.
Relentless pace of combat.
A wide enemy variety.
You need different approaches for fighting different enemies rather than just beating on them repitively.
Boss fights were the reviewers favourite part of the game, time and time again.
Nine levels, with areas revisited often.

Looking at the comments in this thread it seems clear that a lot of people havn't actually read the review... Perhaps they just looked at the byline under the title, or heard they were meant to be incensed by someone on the internet.

The brunt of the reviewer's criticism wasn't aimed at the art design of just the character classes, despite some people in this thread acting otherwise, it was aimed at the female NPCs. Hell, the criticism of the art style accounted for less than a sixth of the actual review!

 

[MisterShine]

Very much so.

Originally when I saw the art design for some of the female characters I thought "Okay, well that's pretty silly but whatever, I'll just play a different character and go about my merry way", no big deal, right? Then I read the polygon review, which adds that every female character in the game suffers that same over-sexualized, damsel-in-distress attitude and honestly that is going to negatively impact my enjoyment of the game if I get into the story. No way around that. What makes this particularly weird for me is I've read about half a dozen reviews for this game, and the Polygon review is the only one to mention that.

So yes, undoubtedly, the Polygon review was useful and informative to at least some of the gaming public, and honestly now a game I was very hyped for (after beating Muramasa Rebirth not a month ago, which I loved), I'm now seriously considering giving it a pass.

 

[captainballsack]

It was an opinion from her perspective. People who find themselves similar to or can relate to the reviewer would have found it useful.

The review presented a perspective on the game, as do all reviews. Just because that perspective is different to yours, doesn't mean that it should be criticized any more than any other article. As far as I'm concerned, she made her points and argued them with evidence. I respect her point of view and now I know the certain issues that the game can raise in regards to a female game journalist's perspective, or more "usefully", an intelligent female gamer's perspective.

I think the amount of criticism is extremely unwarranted. Why is it that when a female puts fourth an argument and her opinion of a game, we criticize it and treat it considerably differently than when it's a male journalist? It's like we're somehow offended, and that doesn't really look right in terms of how we present ourselves as a community.

If you are a feminist and you are interested in games, then the Polygon Dragon's Crown review is for you. No doubt the art style raises the issue itself, so Polygon's decision to have their feminist journalist review it was more than appropriate. How about we conduct ourselves in a more civil manner?

Dude people hated on kotaku when that dude called kamitanis designs made from "14 year olds". Perhaps personal bias has colored your perception?

I meant in regards to the whole sexism and videogames issue. I'm sorry, I didn't make that very clear.

 

[Strain42]

I find it useful because I think it's important to read about a game from different perspectives, positive and negative ones.

For example, I used to frequent the Persona 4 Golden board on GameFAQs where you pretty much get called a hater if you don't think the game is flawless.

Now every now and then someone pops up and asks what is good about the game or if they should play it. Naturally everyone says "Yes, play it, it's perfect and awesome and wonderful, and it gives you blowjobs." or whatever fans say about the game.

And then there's me...who observes the game for what it really is (and lemme be clear, I LIKE Persona 4) it's INCREDIBLY story heavy without much emphasis on Gameplay (more than your average jrpg) A large chunk of the game are social sim elements that might not be everyone's cup of tea, and the story itself is horribly paced, with big story events only happening like once an in-game month or so before it all starts to pile up clumsily towards the end.

The game is also loaded up with non-sequitur scenes that contribute nothing to the story and are just overly long set pieces that try too hard to be funny to showcase these guys becoming the best friends forever club (examples include a camping trip, a school trip, a beach trip, a ski trip, a summer festival, a fireworks festival, a school festival which includes a cross dressing pageant, and lastly...the characters forming a band and putting on a show in a two day long forced story arch which just sounds like a bad sitcom from the 90's)

Some people treat me like the bad guy for saying all that stuff, that I'm just trying too hard to find things about Persona 4 to complain about...but guess what, a lot of those things might bother some people.

The game is advertised as a supernatural murder mystery, but what you get is a high school comedy.

I do truly believe its important to hear what people DON'T like about a game rather than just hearing constant praise for it. I've actually saved a lot of money on games by reading some negative reviews.

 

[Phlakes]

"They scored Remember Me higher than The Last of Us, which is just a joke."

It's almost like different people have different opinions. Unless I've been mistaken and Polygon is actually one big hivemind.

OT: Here's what Atlus' community manager had to say.

Love the review, Danielle. It?s a fair assessment and completely factual. I?m truly thankful that it was you who wrote it, and wouldn?t even think of requesting you change a single letter.

The comments from the game?s supporters are definitely disheartening. It?s ok to not like a game based on an art style, and Polygon is allowed to score the game however they feel necessary. It goes through multiple levels of editing before it?s fully approved, and they?re entitled to their own, informed opinion of the game.

I urge you to please respect the Danielle?s/Polygon?s opinion and then form your own instead of trying to force your opinion on them.

I mean god damn people, even Atlus employees think you're being ridiculous about this.

 

[lacktheknack]

I find it so deliciously ironic that people are freaking out that Polygon gave the game a 6.5 and are saying that they don't go to Polygon because of things like this...

...and the Escapist gave the game a 6...

 

[CloudAtlas]

Oh boy, a popular game got a not-so-positive review, and by a woman, and one of the criticized points was sexualization? If those ain't three sins some gamers will never forgive...

I do have a problem when they start telling me what to think however that just seems preachy and a bit patronising.

Exactly my feelings on reviews as well. When I read a review I want to know if it's functional and fun to play. I do not want someone preaching at me as if they were some self appointed vanguard of justice. Guilty culprits include: Kotaku, Rock Paper Shotgun and now Polygon. My list of reviewers to avoid is starting to grow.

All the reviewer is saying there is that some characters are highly sexualized, that she's bothered by this, and that this feeling didn't disappear while playing. And isn't that useful information for people who like the genre but not the style and are thus not sure the game will be "fun to play" for them?

 

[Miss G.]

Oh boy, a popular game got a not-so-positive review, and by a woman, and one of the criticized points was sexualization? If those ain't three sins some gamers will never forgive...

I do have a problem when they start telling me what to think however that just seems preachy and a bit patronising.

Exactly my feelings on reviews as well. When I read a review I want to know if it's functional and fun to play. I do not want someone preaching at me as if they were some self appointed vanguard of justice. Guilty culprits include: Kotaku, Rock Paper Shotgun and now Polygon. My list of reviewers to avoid is starting to grow.

All the reviewer is saying there is that some characters are highly sexualized, that she's bothered by this, and that this feeling didn't disappear while playing. And isn't that useful information for people who like the genre but not the style and are thus not sure the game will be "fun to play" for them?

This was exactly what happened to me. I saw the announcement of Dragon's Crown and happened to see the Elf (I want) and if I want to play as a guy, the Wizard. I don't even like the genre but I was hyped just because ATLUS... up until I saw the rest of the characters. I stopped paying attention to the game, so much so that I didn't even know it was out. Then I watched the Jimquisition yesterday and heard about the Polygon review and decided to take a look out of curiosity. The review told me that I pretty much wouldn't enjoy anything but The Wizard and Elf and the enemy styles and the gameplay wouldn't alleviate my discomfort with everything else.

 

[captainballsack]

I respect her point of view and now I know the certain issues that the game can raise in regards to a female game journalist's perspective, or more "usefully", an intelligent female gamer's perspective.

And how useful for a general population is to give such a "controversial" game specifically to a feminist writer?

"Ultimately, the review gave Dragon?s Crown a 6.5 out of 10, compared to the Metacritic average score of 83 (or 8.3 on a 10 pt scale). The discrepancy between the two scores seems to pivot on a personal value that Riendeau places on the games more controversial art.
(...)
This statement that headlines the original quote is the basis that seemingly drops the whole review away from being about the quality of the product and makes it about a personal value system. Given that Dragon?s Crown?s character designs of abnormally large chested female characters with disfigured bodies have been heating up across the internet since screenshots were first released, it almost seems like Polygon decided to give the review to the one writer on staff that would be most likely to have the biggest problem with the game.
(...)
Looking at the way the whole review was handled, it is almost as if Polygon was looking to create controversy instead of just reporting on something already within the industry. We don?t know if Polygon gave her the review simply because of her background or if it was just a chance occurrence. But, the scoring of a game should, in my opinion, not stem from a personal stance against values you are not the target demographic for. Especially when that scoring system impacts a much bigger scoring aggregate like Metacritic, which strips away personal views for a qualifying score."

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/07/31/daily-reaction-sizing-up-polygons-dragons-crown-review/

And an important reminder from their comments section:

"They scored Remember Me higher than The Last of Us, which is just a joke."

Did you even read Polygon's review? The issue takes up one sixth of the entire review.

Not about the quality of the product but about a personal value system? No, it's about the quality of the product, with one section dedicated to the controversial issue from the perspective of a feminist journalist.

Polygon really couldn't have handled the review any better. There are thousands of the reviews of the game that will most likely all cover the same topics, the fact that there is one from the perspective of a feminist is a good thing, because it means that people of a similar point of view can find out how somebody they can relate to/are similar to enjoyed the game.

As far as I'm concerned, she made a valid point and argued it with valid evidence. Regardless of her point of view, regardless of how much you disagree with her, she made her point in a valid and interesting manner so her review is more than okay to exist.

 

[CloudAtlas]

As much as I hate to say it, I learned to stay away from polygon's reviews as they tell me very little about the game OR the issues in a decent perspective.

A) Feminist approach is fine, but completely ignoring the male side is just completely biased/sexist.

And what would that "male side" be? Are you implying that all males find this style attractive? That would be a statement that many men - me included - would find quite offensive, to be honest. And quite sexist too, since we're already throwing around this term.


I just don't get why people complain so much about this review, or others like it. Kotaku, for example, is often critized for similar reasons, and ironically, the Escapist might well qualify for that category as well. You know, if you're more interested in "hard facts" about gameplay mechanics and such, there are many sites who do reviews just like that. Why don't you folks just go there, and stop complaining?
People have different preferences. And for many people, issues like (what they perceive as) sexism, racial stereotypes, dumb character design or questionable depiction of violence matter for their enjoyment of a game, maybe even more than some not-so-good gameplay mechanics. Some of those people posted in this very thread.
And for those people, these kind of reviews are useful, and if they just read the technical, "objective" reviews, they would miss out on information that very much matters to them.
I know I'm repeating myself here, but some people don't seem to be able to grasp this basic notion.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I read it to see what the fuss is about (Polygon reviews are sadly rather poor at fully explaining what you get so normally I don't read their stuff at all) and for the most part it was ok, however the person writing it clearly didn't understand personal agendas go into personal agenda articles, so sadly the end result is a vegan reviewing the local steak house... golly gee willikers I wonder which part they might riff on.

A reviewer that is not only incapable of minimizing their personal bias but also goes completely off the rails to push their agenda into the blurb just isn't doing their job, at that point you aren't informing us about the game but rather washing your dirty laundry, professional behavior this is not.