So do you believe in ghosts? Why?

[Woodsey]

No I don't, and I have no respect for people that do. People who believe in ghosts are the worst form of gullible tools. Do you believe in santa claus too? Seriously, you are an embarrassment.

It is quite interesting how older ideas are simply granted the right to "serious inspection", in spite of them existing on the same level of bullshit as newer ones (like Santa) which people are happy to disregard as being for children.

It always comes to mind when people discuss Scientology, actually. Obviously complete shit, but lizard alien overlords (or whatever it is) is no less ridiculous then an all-knowing (and particularly narcissistic) being living on a different plane of existence.

 

[Kargathia]

Ah but thats where the crux of the arguement comes in- things people assign to supernatural elements can be explained through more mundane means, that eery howl is just the wind blowing through a key hole or that scary shadow is just a distorted shadow cast by a piece of furniture.
The stuff that cant be explained like that doesnt automatically prove the nonbelievers wrong until the believers can explain it using the scientific method as empirically obtained evidence is the only way to be sure that said evidence is correct- thats not being close minded its common sense.
And taking an agnostic standpoint is diplomatically admirable but not really a good one in any other way, especially when our good friend Logic says that we can predict the probability of the nonbelievers being right.
And you've got a rather unique view on insanity- if it was me Id get up and submit myself for psychiatric obversation quick sharp.

This fence I'm sitting on is pretty much the same position you're occupying - it's just a bit more ambivalent.
I don't understand all things scientific, as I'm merely human. Neither do I understand everything attributed to the supernatural. I can also safely bet that you've enjoyed stories or movies involving anything not explainable by science.

I accept science because it works, I accept ghost stories because a fascination with the unknown is good entertainment. They're like magic tricks: no fun once explained.
Which is not to say that they don't have an explanation: everything does. The debate mainly centers around whether it's an occurence of something already known (eg. spooky shadows caused by your chair), unknown (eg. lightning before mankind figured out electricity), or something psychological (eg. hallucinations).

And as to your point about insanity: I'd certainly enjoy an apparition showing up, and having a chat. The problem in real life is that insanity usually is not this innocent or harmless.

 

[Ranorak]

Aura's have been proven. But they arnt called aura's xD
Theyre called L-fields in living creatures. (aura is a MUCH easier term to use. the 1st definition being "An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation". Thus an L-field is an aura)

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No body has disproved the idea of ripples in spacetime, because its something impossible to quantify at the moment. Just as dark matter was. And atoms were.

It comes down to the fact that im not "wrong" like your trying to state. (arguing semantics such as me using the word "aura" instead of electromagnetic emanation doesnt exactly change anything xD)

L-fields are so called electromagnetic fields that living bodies generate. Because, of ion exchanges in our cells. We need those to live.

They are just that, electromagnetic fields generated by a power source.

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No, if you turn off the source, the electromagnetic field goes away. Why do you think your bicycle light goes out when you stop riding?

You still make a HUGE, Occam's razor defining, leap to assume that a electromagnetic field can travel without it's source.
Let alone be observed.
Interact.
React and do the general thing people claim ghosts do.

Your believes hold no ground in actual science.
You thought of a neat little idea how to explain ghosts, by using unrelated scientific principles, without tests, without proper udnerstanding what those principles are.

In the end, your believe is nothing more then a kid trying to explain a magic trick, inventing ropes that can pass through hula-hoops.

 

[kouriichi]

Aura's have been proven. But they arnt called aura's xD
Theyre called L-fields in living creatures. (aura is a MUCH easier term to use. the 1st definition being "An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation". Thus an L-field is an aura)

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No body has disproved the idea of ripples in spacetime, because its something impossible to quantify at the moment. Just as dark matter was. And atoms were.

It comes down to the fact that im not "wrong" like your trying to state. (arguing semantics such as me using the word "aura" instead of electromagnetic emanation doesnt exactly change anything xD)

L-fields are so called electromagnetic fields that living bodies generate. Because, of ion exchanges in our cells. We need those to live.

They are just that, electromagnetic fields generated by a power source.

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No, if you turn off the source, the electromagnetic field goes away. Why do you think your bicycle light goes out when you stop riding?

You still make a HUGE, Occam's razor defining, leap to assume that a electromagnetic field can travel without it's source.
Let alone be observed.
Interact.
React and do the general thing people claim ghosts do.

Your believes hold no ground in actual science.
You thought of a neat little idea how to explain ghosts, by using unrelated scientific principles, without tests, without proper udnerstanding what those principles are.

In the end, your believe is nothing more then a kid trying to explain a magic trick, inventing ropes that can pass through hula-hoops.

Isnt that all i said it was in the beginning? xD
That it WASNT 100%? Yet you and several other people hound me on every detail that isnt perfect?

I said my qualifications were just those of an advanced high school student, and that this was ONLY my belief.
Yet everyone under the golden sun decides, "lets pick on him because we dont think hes right".

lets get to your side of the argument now. What are your qualifications to speak on spacetime, and the effects electromagnetics impose on it?
Whats the reason ghosts CANT exist? How can you prove that every single witness to every paranormal event in history was just fool'd by theyre mind.

xD While my idea is not perfect, i never claimed it was. I literally said, "This is my belief, and its the most logical, scientific answer i could come up with."
Can you do better?

 

[Ranorak]

Isnt that all i said it was in the beginning? xD
That it WASNT 100%? Yet you and several other people hound me on every detail that isnt perfect?

I said my qualifications were just those of an advanced high school student, and that this was ONLY my belief.
Yet everyone under the golden sun decides, "lets pick on him because we dont think hes right".

lets get to your side of the argument now. What are your qualifications to speak on spacetime, and the effects electromagnetics impose on it?
Whats the reason ghosts CANT exist? How can you prove that every single witness to every paranormal event in history was just fool'd by theyre mind.

xD While my idea is not perfect, i never claimed it was. I literally said, "This is my belief, and its the most logical, scientific answer i could come up with."
Can you do better?

my qualifications are Biochemical, microbiology and genetics.
AKA, a firm understanding of the scientific theory.
Electromagnetic fields are the result of a current moving passed a stationary charge. This field is not made up by particles, it's just particles react to the field.

By removing the field's source, the particles go back to their original formations, thus the field is lost.
That is why the effects of a field cannot exists without a source.
Because it's not a mass on it's own, but rather the effect it has on normal particles, it cannot travel through space time, because the source is gone.

And the reason why ghosts can't exist.
Because conscience is a product of the brain.
We are conscience because our brain is working the way it does.
Once we die, and our brains stops working, our conscience stops working.

There is no magical, spiritual or whatever, residue that stays behind, because the moment you die, the power source that made the electronic signals in your head work, is gone as well.

Another reason, is that of observation.
In the last 100 years more people have died then there are currently alive.
Even if we were to hold the believes of Creationism, and the earth is only 6000 years old. That would mean that there would be countless and countless of ghosts. millions of millions of people died with regret, sorrow, pain, or whatever.

Yet the number of ghost sightings is ridiculously low.

Even though countless upon countless people have done research into this, it all fails.
And, like I said before.

If ghosts were real, my dead grandpa, who is as curious and scientificly orientated as me, would have haunted me to show me it was real.

 

[kouriichi]

Isnt that all i said it was in the beginning? xD
That it WASNT 100%? Yet you and several other people hound me on every detail that isnt perfect?

I said my qualifications were just those of an advanced high school student, and that this was ONLY my belief.
Yet everyone under the golden sun decides, "lets pick on him because we dont think hes right".

lets get to your side of the argument now. What are your qualifications to speak on spacetime, and the effects electromagnetics impose on it?
Whats the reason ghosts CANT exist? How can you prove that every single witness to every paranormal event in history was just fool'd by theyre mind.

xD While my idea is not perfect, i never claimed it was. I literally said, "This is my belief, and its the most logical, scientific answer i could come up with."
Can you do better?

my qualifications are Biochemical, microbiology and genetics.
AKA, a firm understanding of the scientific theory.
Electromagnetic fields are the result of a current moving passed a stationary charge. This field is not made up by particles, it's just particles react to the field.

By removing the field's source, the particles go back to their original formations, thus the field is lost.
That is why the effects of a field cannot exists without a source.
Because it's not a mass on it's own, but rather the effect it has on normal particles, it cannot travel through space time, because the source is gone.

And the reason why ghosts can't exist.
Because conscience is a product of the brain.
We are conscience because our brain is working the way it does.
Once we die, and our brains stops working, our conscience stops working.

There is no magical, spiritual or whatever, residue that stays behind, because the moment you die, the power source that made the electronic signals in your head work, is gone as well.

Another reason, is that of observation.
In the last 100 years more people have died then there are currently alive.
Even if we were to hold the believes of Creationism, and the earth is only 6000 years old. That would mean that there would be countless and countless of ghosts. millions of millions of people died with regret, sorrow, pain, or whatever.

Yet the number of ghost sightings is ridiculously low.

Even though countless upon countless people have done research into this, it all fails.
And, like I said before.

If ghosts were real, my dead grandpa, who is as curious and scientificly orientated as me, would have haunted me to show me it was real.

xD being a biochemist doesnt give you any knowledge of spacetime though.
You have a firm understanding of the biology.
But in contrast, you try to base everything in my belief as false, because the human aur.... Bioelectricmagnetic fields die out with the human.

But what if they dont just end in spacetime? What if they continue on? What if their sheer presence in the spacetime continuum causes them to extend indefinitely?
As of this moment, we dont know half as much as we would like to about it. ((Scientific community as a whole))
Right now, most of the information about it is made up of theories! We dont even know how many dimensions our universe is actually made up of! xD We know at least 4, but we dont know how many past that! They could be areas where fields and energy resonate.

Its a belief. Based on theories. And as i said, it would have to be a traumatic event that causes the field to change. Yes, there have been many traumatic events in history, but isnt it possible not all would have the proper L-field to create a ripple? Like a radio frequency needed to be heard on a radio. Only the proper frequency come through loud and clear.

This is what science is! xD questioning what we dont know, in hopes that some day we will have an answer. I know im not RIGHT. And im glad. It gives people to strive for something that is.

 

[MordinSolus]

I don't think they're real, even though a lot of people tell their own ghost stories, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[elcher]

I believe in ghosts - partly because ive heard some pretty interesting stories from "no bullshit type" of people and partly because i am too egomanical to believe that something as great as the human mind can simply "puff and go away"

 

[Kittz]

...yes. Because I've seen them and I've seen them with other people around and they seen it too.

I do push away any "ghost" that can be explained using logic, but some... can be very persistent.

 

[FamoFunk]

I want to say no, but I do have a bit of an over-active imagination, and I do run from the toilet room in the middle of the night after I've needed to use it. And I do try to avoid and fail looking at mirrors and stuff in the dark, too.

I think I'm just a wuss.

 

[Genixma]

Yeah I do believe in ghosts. I've enjoyed various shows that cover haunted sites, none of that Ghost Hunter crap though, and actually enjoy learning about the supposed haunting it's a subject I find interesting. But then again I take interest in the super natural, mythology, folklore, legend, and hauntings.

 

[Rabid Chipmunk]

I want to say no, but I do have a bit of an over-active imagination, and I do run from the toilet room in the middle of the night after I've needed to use it. And I do try to avoid and fail looking at mirrors and stuff in the dark, too.

I think I'm just a wuss.

Sort of the same here. The skeptical part of me wants to say I don't believe in ghosts, but every now and again, a crash will come out of nowhere in my house or I'll swear I'll see something move, and when things like that happen, it's hard to just chalk it up to an "over-active imagination."

 

[Mariena]

No, I don't.. but that doesn't prevent me from checking my closet and underneath my bed.

Seriously though, those damn horror movies have had an impact. I don't like unlit rooms at night anymore since paranormal activities.. I just keep imagining things..

 

[dfphetteplace]

Yes I do. Why? It's very simple.

Can you prove they don't exist?

It is not up to the skeptic to disprove any accusation. The proof of the accusation lies upon the accuser.

Semantics could turn that around on you very quickly, my friend. Who is to say that you are not the one accusing ghosts of not existing, and I am merely skeptical or your opinion? How do we decide which party is the accuser and which is the defender?

But if someone states that there is an invisible ice cream factory on Jupiter, it is up to that person to prove you. People that are the skeptics should not have to waste their time disproving something that is ridiculous. Much like the idea of ghost or demons or what have you, the invisible ice cream factory on Jupiter makes no sense, and it would be pointless for anyone who takes life somewhat seriously to argue with them. No, they cannot disprove it, because they cannot go to Jupiter and search the entire planet for something invisible. It doesn't matter that Jupiter does not have a surface, that it is too hot (Jupiter makes it's own heat), and has no evidence of life.

If we are going to try to flip the argument around like that, it will become an argument that devolves into solipsism.

 

[edudogel]

Nope not at all

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

Yeah of course I do. Weirder shit has been scientifically proven. Take a look at quantum physics for 5 seconds ^^

Your weak link is that the weird stuff that's been scientifically proven has actually been scientifically proven. That's why they're considered true and ghosts aren't.

You misunderstand. I'm saying science is currently unable to prove their existence. Much like how they used to be unable to prove quantum physics, which is equally absurd.

 

[Aiedail256]

no evidence for the existence of the human soul + Occam's Razor = no belief.

EDIT: here's another point:

Yes I do. Why? It's very simple.

Can you prove they don't exist?

I cannot prove that they don't exist, but neither can you prove that they do. In the absence of proof, what evidence we have suggests that they do not exist, which is another reason I don't believe.

 

[ThatLankyBastard]

I'm more akin to the theory of a psionic imprint over spirits of the deceased.

This... it just makes more~wait a minute, didn't I just quote you a few threads back?

Still, Psionic imprint, but that being said i don't deny the existence of ghosts... I just don't believe in them...

Screw you guys, it makes sense to me!

 

[PurePareidolia]

Yeah of course I do. Weirder shit has been scientifically proven. Take a look at quantum physics for 5 seconds ^^

Your weak link is that the weird stuff that's been scientifically proven has actually been scientifically proven. That's why they're considered true and ghosts aren't.

You misunderstand. I'm saying science is currently unable to prove their existence. Much like how they used to be unable to prove quantum physics, which is equally absurd.

The two concepts are considered absurd for different, unrelated reasons, you can't seriously suggest that the acceptance of Quantum physics means everything as absurd or less than that can and will be proven. I shouldn't have to explain that the strangeness or counter-intuitiveness of a phenomenon is irrelevant with regards to whether it's true or not.

Besides, it doesn't compare - think of how long it took for Quantum physics to be proved. Now think of how long it's taken for Ghosts not to be proved.