So.....I have three games I'm thinking about getting.....

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Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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michael87cn said:
So many people calling Dark Souls a hack and slash in this thread!

facepalm.jpg ...

Dark Souls will eat you alive and spit you out if you button mash.
Any good hack and slash will spit you out if you button mash as well.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Aug 30, 2011
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Phoenixmgs said:
MeChaNiZ3D said:
Try faith/int or finding a use for the Darkmoon Catalyst.
Which is something you get from an optional boss that is rather late in the game. A new player isn't going to build a character around that item. And you still need heavy investment into intelligence to do the better scorceries that now scale with faith. You really can only invest heavily into 4 attributes unless you grind for souls; you'll want vitality, endurance, strength or dex, and then there's only 1 left to invest in. You can't solely use magic to get through areas so you can't ignore strength or dex.
You can use solely magic. It's a challenge. Once again I suggest that there is a great system for making builds for those who want to exploit it, and you counter with what a new player would do.

Sif was easy and I fought him way underleveled as the only thing I had at the time that did any damage was my lightning spear and that takes some time to do. I had to wait for Sif to do a certain attack as there was the only one of his attacks that gave me a big enough window to do my lightning spear. I don't remember if I blocked or dodge Sif's attacks, but his attacks were so telegraphed. I fought Smough in co-op.
Fighting O&S solo is basically the highlight of every melee run I do. Co-op's not quite the same.

Games either have counters to things or they don't so you are either playing Rock Paper Scissors or basically just rock (which is Dark Souls); there's really nothing else but those 2 options. It really pisses me off when people say "well, it's just Rock Paper Scissors, it's not deep" when that is literally as deep as it gets. Go find whatever the deepest strategy game of all-time is and every single tactic will have a counter because if there wasn't a counter to a certain tactic, it would result in everyone using the same tactic and it would be a horrible strategy game (yeah, there will be more than 3 tactics but at it's core, the game will basically be Rock Paper Scissors). I don't understand the logic in saying one game has enemies that require different combat strategies while another game's enemies require only one combat strategy, and the later game has more depth, that doesn't make sense. You shouldn't be allowed to do one thing over and over again. If a pitcher just threw curveballs all game, he would get lit up.
While that's broadly true, there are different amounts of RPS. Situations where you have to adjust overall approach or strategy, and situations where you must use a particular skill or approach because others don't work at all. I can't think of an enemy that forces you to use ripostes that wouldn't create an instance of the first category. It should also be able to be backstabbed, and tanked if you've built your character for that. For me the enemies already make me use ripostes when it means they'll die in one shot rather than two, and that's enough when you're dealing with Darkwraiths and that sort of thing, although taking the easier way out doesn't require as much effort.

In fact, I had to basically force myself to riposte enemies in new areas because I could generally play it safe with a shield instead of learning new timings (Darkwraiths and Serpentmen come to mind), and this all ties into my point: You have a choice. I feel like I'm getting more out of the game by soloing, riposting and rolling.

At the end of the day, we both played it, you don't have quite as high an opinion of it as I do and I think it's the bee's knees, neither of us are going to change the other's mind and we've both made valid points. Agree to disagree?
Just for balance and game mechanic purposes, the riposte should have more upside. I think the backstab probably yields a very similar amount of damage dealt while having far less risk. The more risk, the more upside something should have; that's just a general rule.
Oh shit no. Ripostes do a fair bit more damage than backstabs. If anything backstabs should be made a bit weaker.

The game should force you to get good, not the other way around. Playing the game with one hand tied behind my back is harder as well, but I shouldn't have to limit myself to get a challenge out of a game, especially one that is advertised and marketed as being a hard game. Bayonetta gives me a challenge without taking anything away from me because it makes me use and master all its mechanics.
Yes, but you have to go out of your way to make the game easier my exploiting it's mechanics. At the most basic level it does force you to play better. To make the game easier for yourself you have to do it deliberately. You tying your hand behind your back would be going out of your way to make the game harder, which you don't have to do. Dark Souls isn't marketed as a hard game, I don't think. It says you'll die alot, which is true. But the difficulty thing mostly comes from fans. For what it's worth, I completed Bayonetta, and I prefer the variety of Dark Souls, but it was still good, and challenging on the harder modes, but the normal mode, ie. the level the game expects you to play at, didn't require knowledge of the combat system to the degree harder ones did.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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MeChaNiZ3D said:
You can use solely magic. It's a challenge. Once again I suggest that there is a great system for making builds for those who want to exploit it, and you counter with what a new player would do.
I don't know if you'd have enough magic to kill everything between bonfires, that's really my only concern with being a straight-up mage. You said that a new player wouldn't be able to put an element on a weapon so they'd need strength or dex when I said you didn't need to put points into those attributes, that's why I mentioned that a new player isn't going to make a build based off some item that they don't even know about and an item they probably won't even get.

Oh shit no. Ripostes do a fair bit more damage than backstabs. If anything backstabs should be made a bit weaker.
Ripostes should have more upside whether that is nerfing backstabs or buffing ripostes or a combination of both. It just doesn't make sense to riposte unless you're just concerned about time, which is never an issue since you're almost always (like 99.999% of the time) facing one enemy at a time.

Yes, but you have to go out of your way to make the game easier my exploiting it's mechanics. At the most basic level it does force you to play better. To make the game easier for yourself you have to do it deliberately. You tying your hand behind your back would be going out of your way to make the game harder, which you don't have to do. Dark Souls isn't marketed as a hard game, I don't think. It says you'll die alot, which is true. But the difficulty thing mostly comes from fans. For what it's worth, I completed Bayonetta, and I prefer the variety of Dark Souls, but it was still good, and challenging on the harder modes, but the normal mode, ie. the level the game expects you to play at, didn't require knowledge of the combat system to the degree harder ones did.
How am I exploiting the game and its mechanics by fighting every enemy one at time and just normally blocking and attacking? I can see if I purposefully cheesed every enemy with a bow and arrow or found some broken combination of items, but I didn't do anything like that. And, the game mechanics don't work well at all when facing multiple enemies at once.

The game says "Prepare to die" on the back of the box. And a game where you die a lot is a difficult game since you are dying a lot. The thing is I didn't even die a lot in Dark Souls. I went through entire dungeons without even dying once. I beat a lot of bosses my first try. I even went through Sen's Fortress and didn't even get hit by one trap (I didn't use a walkthrough either). That one dragon that curses you got me the 1st time, but then I wore my best curse resistant clothes plus a ring and I literally just stood right in front of it mashing melee, not blocking once, and killed it with no issue.

Bayonetta very subtly makes you get better. The Jeane fights on normal are trying to get you to use the dodge offset mechanic. Yeah, you'll be able to beat her after X amount of tries eventually but to be able to consistently beat her without dying, you'll have to start getting good with the combat system. Then the game throws you some enemies immune to Witch Time on normal as well (then hard has a lot of those enemies, then NSIC has no Witch Time, the game is weening you off Witch Time basically). Bayonetta just doesn't punish you as much for every death and gives you more "get out of jail free" cards (the lollipops) than Dark Souls. You just can't do the same thing over and over again even on Bayonetta's normal mode and not die while you can do the same thing from the start of Dark Souls until the end and not die, that's the difference. At least Bayonetta forces you to deal with multiple enemies.
 

stroopwafel

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Jul 16, 2013
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Dark Souls by a mile. It's one of the best games this gen and probably(along with Demon's) the best action-RPG ever made as well as the best dark fantasy world ever created. The gameplay requires a cautious approach but is very deep and rewarding. If you're a fan of this genre its a no-brainer. The lore is also very intriguing but scattered throughout the game world for you to piece together. It's an acquired taste though that's why most people either love or hate the Souls games with very little in-between.

Max Payne 3 is a great third-person shooter with very satisfying gunplay. Also the cynical lamentations of its protagonist are tragically comical even if the story itself is somewhat lackluster. Great game but it's just shoot-out after shoot-out with little to no variety. They were really awesome but it started to drag after a while. So my only (minor) gripe with this game is that they should have added either more variety to the gameplay or made the game itself shorter.

Haven't played Saints 2. Saints 3 was great though. :p