So... I Just Became a Vegetarian

[Mahha]

Good for you. It is proven that all vegetable diet is more healthy than all meat diet. I go for the middle approach (half the plate is veggies the other half is something else). All I'm gonna say as long a you don't force your eating habits on others or claim moral high for not killing animal I don't really care. Whatever rocks your boat.

 

[I Fiend I]

This picture is what I think:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/passiveaggressive/3642661392/

 

[Bradd94]

Phase your meat intake out, seriously.
Your body has a form of dependancy on the protein and all that (minerals? work with me escapists) and so quitting cold turkey will be like starving those parts of you. By gradually reducing intake you can lower your bodies' meat needs.

I've done it, last year. Cold turkey doesn't work, not only because turkey is in the damn action you're doing, but because you need some form of meat for awhile.

EDIT: I'm glad to see you're not an animal rights activist, or making some kind of statement either, because I can't relate to that. I just dislike the taste

 

[James Cassidy]

Did she, at any point, attack you for not being a vegetarian? I ask because you don't seem to mention her doing so. Because if she didn't then you were being very rude and inconsiderate. Just sayin'. You seemed to me to start the line of inquiry about her vegetarianism with the clear purpose of undermining her beliefs. She may have seemed misinformed, stubborn or "full of crap" to you, but does it really justify how much you attacked her?

Omnivores should really try and do their best not to assume that all vegetarians are out to attack them and their dietary habits, just as all vegetarians should not assume that omnivores all hate animals (and vegetarians/vegans) with a burning rage and wish to enslave them all for human profit.

Tolerance on this whole issue would be excellent. From both sides.

Really? While you are at that...tell dogs to stop licking themselves. Teach religions to stop fighting. Teach heterosexuals to not be afraid of Homosexuals and teach all races to not be fuck heads to each other.

BTW, tell Democrats to stop being pussies and Republicans to stop being bull headed.

Tolerance only exists to some degree.

I agree that hypocrisy is not something to be condoned. I would probably feel the need to point it out if I am specifically arguing or debating a point to be made. Having said that, I don't actually prefer the way you handled yourself. Based on your paraphrasing, you took it a level too far. It really isn't impressive when a person flat out attacks someone who isn't even arguing in the first place. Yes, there was hypocrisy in her statements, but you did a poor job at relating your personal opinion on her lifestyle, resulting in unnecessary humiliation for the sake of an ego boost.

There is no ego boost, but then you never heard the tone of the women now did you? You think my paraphrasing makes it sound like I was the bad guy when really she was the one acting like a ***** and thought she was better than everyone else.

I don't have to fucking impress anyone. It's not like I was trying to hit on her or "change" her ideas. It's more like telling a stupid person about the stupid things they say. I don't need to humiliate someone when they do it themselves.

BTW, what ego boost was I gaining? Kind of easy to beat someone in the battle of wits with someone who is unarmed. Also a complete ***** who thought she was better than me because I like to eat meat.

Facts are facts and the fact is if you think eating pills is natural, but eating a cow isn't, then you are one of the dumbest people in the world. Nature gave us fangs for a reason. If me eating a cow is unnatural, then I guess lions eating other animals is unnatural too.

It's a stupid reason to be a Vegan/vegitarian. Not only that, but she gave a fucking hard time to the guy behind the counter because she wanted the bread in the back that was untouched by meat. She was so stuck up about her "veganism/vegitarianism" (I guess) that she didn't want bread in her SANDWHICH (I had no idea what kind of sandwhich she wanted) to not be anywhere NEAR meat. I mean the bread wasn't even touching anything, but because it was on the same table, she didn't want it. Because meat is "unnatural," but again "pills are natural."

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ABOUT? Really?

It's one thing to be different. It is a whole thing entirely when you think you deserve special treatment because you are "different." Everyone is equal regardless of who or what you are, but if you think you are better than me then I have no respect for those people.

I can understand not eating meat because you don't like it or don't like the taste of it, or heck even because you want to be healthier in terms of not eating so much red meat. But don't sit here and say "Meat is unnatural" and say I'm the villain because I eat meat.

If you don't like the way I handled the situation: TOUGH SHIT! That is how the world works. Nut up or shut up. Why would it matter what I think? If you think I am wrong anyway then it shouldn't matter what I say. I just don't like people who are stuck up and I like to bring them down to reality. The world doesn't revolve around you. You adapt to it, it doesn't adapt to you. You have freewill to do whatever, but that also means you take responsibility for your actions.

I am not the smartest man alive and I don't want to be. I just want to be happy with a family, few kids and a loving wife. Whatever you do on your own time is none of my fucking business, but don't sit here and think you are better than me because you are a vegetarian or homosexual or a different race or different religion or anything along those lines.

See you people say you want "tolerance" but then you both are hypocrites as well because you are "intolerant" on how I debated with this women. You are also intolerant of my views. So in a way we are all hypocrites at one point or another. That is the reality.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

Props for going Veggy, but I say you should still eat properly cooked meat in small quantities (not Fast Food Meat) as it contains vitamins and nutrients you can't get fully out of Veggy products.

Look into Tofu Ramen also. Quite nice.

 

[Flishiz]

I try to be vegetarian/vegan when I can, and it's somewhat for the same reason. Ever since that (and a shitload of other things as well) I've dropped from 210 to 170 pounds in the span of four months. One thing I can say is that if you get enough of the right spices and greens (chard, basil, parsley, etc), you can pretty much cook anything that will be satisfying while hardly adding an ounce of weight.

Also, eat kale. Lots of kale. If you ever get the time to make kale chips, do it. If you've never had them before:

1: Wash kale of all contaminants and remove as much water as possible from the surface, preferably with a paper towel.
2: Cut it into pieces roughly 6cm in area and then cover each side with a mixture of olive oil and some fine salt.
3: Heat it in an oven at 150 F for about 10 minutes until they're perfectly crispy.

I'll tell you, eat a well-made kale chip, and you'll never want another potato chip again in your life.

This is exactly what I'm looking for. It's much appreciated 'cause I love a good potato chip.

Also, that bit about your weight drop is my hopeful results. It's a good morale raiser.

Just remember that the rate I lost weight at relied on a lot of things. Most important is willpower, and finding the right reason to keep going, because after the first two weeks, everything will feel as normal as waking up in the morning. But be advised that everyone is different, and a lot of the stuff I did probably wouldn't fly for some or most people, like skipping lunch daily, or waking up at 5 AM (I do this anyway, but it gave me a good amount of time) to run for five miles every day. Also, if you ever pass by something delicious that you could just as easily obtain and eat, just do what I do, and ask yourself: "If I lived my life today without ever knowing what tasty treat is in front of me, would I really be worse off?"

Good luck. It'll be a hard road, but once you find what works for you, everything should click and you'll be on a better path.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

-snip-

You could have just stopped at "you weren't there, you didn't hear the tone, I was mostly paraphrasing." You could have just stopped there, and I would have apologized for misunderstanding the situation. But you went beyond what was necessary. Your ego got in the way, and you attacked without any real provocation. Just from the way you responded, I now know that I was spot on.

Also, that whole "you are intolerant of the way I argue about being intolerant" is the most retarded thing I've heard all day. By the way, I'm not the one who mentioned anything about "tolerance".

 

[Lucifron]

Ironic that you want a healthier lifestyle by not eating meat...

/thread

Eating healthy is about sampling from different sorts of food, and getting all the nutrients you need. It really is that simple. Humans are omnivores, and we are supposed to have an omnivorous diet. Period.
All this LCHF and veggo bullshit won't make you any healthier than if you kept a balanced diet.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

So, I assume you don't ever look up anything on the internet to read what was written by people, who have had experiences in the specific field that you require knowledge upon.

My god, are serious? First of all, of course I'm going to visit my doctor. I've already made the appointment. Second, I came here because I knew for a fact that I would find many people who have had personal experiences with the vegetarian lifestyle. I've asked my family, my friends, and co-workers. I like getting multiple opinions on a specific topic. Just because these are people I don't know doesn't mean I can immediately discount them as credible sources.

I go out and buy a book on vegetarianism. Guess what? It's written by some guy I don't know. He may or may not be a credible source of information. I don't know, I have to read the book first. You don't think after I've read what he has to say that I don't have the common sense to understand whether or not what he says is credible information or not? And even if I wasn't sure, what would you suggest I do? One possibility is to read reviews of the book, expanding my spectrum of understanding. Reading multiple opinions that were spawned from an opinion. That's called "mass communications". In other words, equivalent to the internet.

Oh noes ... take the defensive because some guy called me out on something I should have done rather than making my passive-aggressive take on bullshit I don't know about, like the topic of meat despite the fact that Humanity has fucked around with vegetable and grain materials much moreso through the course of human development ... oh noes.

Whatever shall I do? ... I know! reverse the situation by saying he is ignorant and that he should seek multiple avenues of information ... inject that I AM doing what the guy said ... and then turn around and say he knows what's best for himself because of his mighty common sense (even after ivalidating that thought after saying "not eating eat to pursue healthier, more natural lifestyle")

FYI, your doctor will know your medical history, he'll/she'll also point you to a nutritionist if you ask ... what more do you need from anybody else? Other than you're need to create a forum topic, and troll people who say you're any idiot for your opening statement.

Welcome to 'mass communication', as you say.

Nice. Reported.

 

[Aerodyamic]

I credit you for having strong convictions, and I wish you success with your new diet choice, but cows are slow and stupid, and I'm quick, and smart enough to kill, butcher, cook and consume them, and I will continue to do so.

Blah blah blah, attempts at lifestyle moralism and smugness, with generous dollops of assumption and misconception.

Actually, I learned to kill, butcher, and prepare cows on my grandparents farm, because my family owned meat cattle. Your notion that I'm a sport hunter is as funny as it is wrong, and I'd like to applaud you for look like an idiot, because you've obviously never dealt with domesticated free-range cattle. They're dumb, and they were breed to be dumb, because men wanted them to be docile and dumb, and made sure those traits were dominant ones. I don't own any firearms or hunting bows, but I did learn to skin and butcher cattle, starting at the age of about 8, and I learned to use a firearm to kill coyotes to protect those cows at around age 10.

Anyways, you have this notion that I assume that my status as a member of Homo Sapiens justifies my right to eat meat and hunt; go read a book called 'The Naked Ape' by Desmond Morris, and especially the early chapters, where he explains the potential evolutionary mechanisms that changed our ancestors from 'pick and snack primates' to 'adopted carnivores and supplementary herbivores'.

Then think about this: Cows were domesticated to provide several things, and they were bred to be dumb, in many cases. If I operate a farm that keeps them feed, and I protect them, I'm justified in using any materials I garner from them. If you going to tell me that a family farm that keeps enough cows to maintain a breeding population and sufficient numbers to feed the family is immoral, you need to give your head a shake.

Regardless of your position on the morality of meat consumption, I never said anything about 'buying a hamburger at McDonalds', I said I was 'smart enough and fast enough to kill, butcher, prepare and cook cows', which is a fair sight different. Why don't you take your preaching to people that give a damn, and stop trying to prove yourself as some kind of paragon, when all you're really doing is coming across as a misinformed and bigoted whiner that can't accept that evolution has instilled Homo Sapiens with some base urges and the ability to follow through on them.

 

[Cliff_m85]

If this is to lose weight, go for it for a few months.

You know what "Movie Bob" looks like? That's me without the beard and glasses.

It might be good to do every other week perhaps, that way it isn't as difficult as goin cold turkey, but I am no nutrition specialist, but drastic changes to diets aren't always the best thing. A mild work out more often than not will do wonders too (and remember to stretch properly every 3 hours, it helps too)... and I hear that people think they are hungry, when in fact they are just thirsty, drinking more water may help too (sweating is recommended as well).
It is great that you are taking interest and action to living more healthy, but I think you could find better places to get answers then here.

Best of luck. If more people took an interest in getting healthy, the world would be a better place.

P.S. You will need to stick to a new diet for 6 months before you should expect results, so don't get discouraged after a week or two.

It's all a calories game. How much you take in compared to how much you burn off. I lost 50 lbs in 6 months.

 

[Nifarious]

I credit you for having strong convictions, and I wish you success with your new diet choice, but cows are slow and stupid, and I'm quick, and smart enough to kill, butcher, cook and consume them, and I will continue to do so.

Ouch, hurt feelings.

Cows Rule!

Sigh...
1. No kidding animals have been bred to be stupid and if they were suddenly released and all the world stopped eating them, they'd suffer and die off. Afraid I don't need to have played around with cattle to know that.

2. Lifestyle moralisms. Actually, I tried to make it clear that I was only refuting your argument which you use to glorify your life. I don't need you to justify it to me because I do not care what you do. It's just a weakness of mine to be bothered when I come to a forum and see ideas being voiced that don't actually work. I'm not calling you or humanity inferior to cows. I'm saying that might=right doesn't apply to modern society. It's why I said I wasn't arguing as a vegan. In fact, I eat meat on a regular basis, if that makes you feel any better.

3. Although telling someone to go read a book is a surefire way to talk down to them on a forum, since you described it as though you really do want me to read it, I'll return the favor and recommend Hegel's Philosophy of History if you're at all interested in why I'm arguing from a seemingly fatalist, doesn't matter what you do, the system is the system, point of view. And from there, Adorno's Culture Industry would make for an excellent supplement, and may itself be more immediately accessible. But to answer your evolutionary point, of course it's natural for people to eat meat. They do it all the time. It's only location and culture that dictates diet. However, society does present us with the choice to eat meat or not, but unfortunately, convenience alone tends to preclude this unless you live in a major city.

4. You're a farmer, not a hunter, congratulations. You applaud me for look [sic] like an idiot (okay, I'll stop being mean). It doesn't change what society is or how meat is consumed. You may feel like a caregiver of the cattle which you give to people to be eaten, but your individual experience means nothing in the scope of society. Even high grade free range meat is eaten quintessentially no differently than McDonalds meat is. Of course there are differences, but when someone buys meat that's been treated well, it's only to justify all the meat that is mass produced. Even if you're born and raised off of Kobe beef which you massage yourself, you're still a part of society which must mass produce animals into little patties. And you guessed it, the same goes for being a vegetarian too. Nope, nothing can be argued for from the general because it all falls to society.

5. Please don't confuse any of this with a moralistic argument. Your argument has been that of nature over morality, but mine has been simply to show you that your nature is eradicated by society. If you don't like hearing this, then don't put out arguments that you aren't eager to see challenged. There remains more to be said about all this, but I'm afraid that I've other things to be doing.
Wishing Well

 

[Callate]

This thread and the argument of "vegetarians are healthier" are bologna (pun intended). Vegetarians are only healthier because they are more conscious of what they eat by necessity. No study has ever been done contrasting both a normal vegetarian and an equally health conscious omnivore. Why? Because the vegetarian would lose by simple mathematic principles.

The diet of a vegetarian is exclusive whereas the omnivore isn't. Where X equals all options available to a vegetarian the omnivore has options equal to X + Y where Y is some positive integer representing all possible healthy choices which are not exclusively vegetable. It is impossible to say that there is a causal relationship between being vegetarian and being more healthy, only that there is a correlation. You would have to make the case that there is absolutely no health benefit to any meat anywhere to anyone for any reason to show otherwise, and these data do not exist.

This is a huge fallacy. A hypothetical person with perfect information about the health outcomes of a hypothetical diet that has every possible dietary option available to him would be healthier than a vegetarian with the same options, but restricted?

"No study has been done contrasting a normal vegetarian and an equally health conscious omnivore" because the descriptive terms aren't remotely appropriate for a credible study. What does it mean to be an "equally health conscious omnivore"? There are things both positive and negative in a meat eater's diet that simply aren't issues in a comparable vegetarian's diet. How would you compare an omnivore's concerns with cholesterol with the non-existant cholesterol concerns of a vegetarian? Or the balancing of omega-3 and omega-6 fats?

The fact of the matter is that they hypothetical person on which your argument is based doesn't exist. No one has all dietary options available to him. Most people don't even take advantage of the outer ranges of options that are available. There's no point making claims about the dietary benefits of eating kangaroo meat to someone living in Minnesota, or about the positives and negatives of kava consumption to someone living in Stockholm.

Likewise, within a distinctly limited, finite number of options, there is every possibility that some of those options may be detrmiental, and even poisonous. And suggesting that a broader spectrum that includes the poisonous is more beneficial is farcical in the face of it.

A typical American of modest financial means has a quite limited typical diet. They most likely eat chicken, beef, and pork, and possibly fish and lamb. They consume maybe thirty different fruits and vegetables, an incredibly miniscule number when compared to the variety of edible species on the planet. And their consumption is limited to what conventional farming methods produce; they most likely don't subsist on organics. It is within this subset that it is appropriate to make judgements on diet, not some nonexistant mathematical abstract.

Are there healthy meat-eaters out there? Of course. There are reputed to be plains peoples who live entirely on red meat and milk, and they have incredibly low rates of heart disease, just to confound certain branches of dietary thinking. But these peoples hunt their food, and their game lives on its natural diet- a far cry from the convenience-wrapped, feedlot-raised product of industrial agriculture. Chiding someone for choosing vegetarianism within their available choices makes as much sense as chiding them for not going out to hunt wild cattle on the plains.

 

[FlyAwayAutumn]

A more natural lifestyle is not to just flat out stop eating meat. From what I understand (and I don't pay attention to this kind of thing very much) people are usually vegetarians because they're "Humanitarians" so if you're not a "Humanitarian" you can still eat meat just don't eat it all the damn time and have a more balanced diet.

There I'm done talking about "Nutrition" now I feel all dirty. I'm gonna go talk about sex or some other thing.

Can I replace the word "humanitarian" with "hippie" and it still mean the same thing?

Pretty much, those two things are generally synonymous.