So, I just saw Evangelion 3.0 (BIG rant and spoilers)

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bartholen_v1legacy

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And my reaction is somewhere between "What the FUCK?" and "No. Just no." It's been only a few hours since I saw the film so this is more of an instant reaction/ rant than an attempt at a review. I was never a fan of the series, but after the quite excellent 2.0 I would never have expected it to go this abysmal. The series has reached an all-time low, and so have my standards of understandable storytelling on even the most basic level. This is one hell of a mess of a movie. It is even worse than End of Evangelion in the sense of bringing up obscure terms and names that have never been mentioned before and not explaining them for one bit.

I'm going to spoil basically the whole movie so I'm dividing this into spoiler tags, because I have so much to get off my chest. I'm going to warn you, this is a shit ton of text to read, and I fear I might have gone into too much detail, but I have to vent about this to someone.

SO, the new movie starts off 14 years after the second movie's ending. Much has changed since, but unfortunately the movie doesn't bother telling us what, why or how until over half an hour in. We get nothing, absolutely NOTHING out of the first 20 minutes (!!!!!!!!!!!) of the movie beyond "shit has changed". The movie was too absorbed in showing us some flashy cool stuff happening that it forgot to explain exactly why it was happening and where. In the first scene I had only a vague idea of what was supposed to be going on, and even that was mostly due to spoilers I'd read.

After that we get... err not much exactly. In short: After the Third Impact (and its subsequent cancellation) NERV has fallen apart, and Misato is the head of a new organization called Wille intent on destroying them because they've found out Gendo's been orchestrating towards Third Impact all along. And they have a helicarrier about the size of Manhattan and an entire nautical fleet for completely unexplained reasons. They have recovered Shinji from Eva-01, who wakes up completely baffled. Then they slap some device on him that can apparently kill him if he oversteps his boundaries. They don't want him to pilot an Eva again because if he gives in to his emotions while piloting, it will trigger Third Impact.

Shinji doesn't get any answers (neither do we), but then Rei comes in Eva-00 to rescue him (or did she? The fuck do I know) and take him back to NERV. NERV has been reduced (apparently, because I have no other idea of explaining it) to hunkering down in their ex-headquarters, and personnel now includes only Fuyutsuki, Gendo, Kaworu and Rei. Gendo, in one of his about 5 lines of dialogue in THE ENTIRE FUCKING FILM commands Shinji to pilot Eva number idontremember with Kaworu to initiate Third Impact... again. And that's pretty much it. Except that's not a plot, that's a setup.

The rest could only be described as dicking around. Shinji tries to get answers, doesn't get any, and then plays some piano with Kaworu, rinse and repeat. Later on we find out that Third Impact actually happened in a way, and the world is in ruins. To fix this, Kaworu convinces Shinji to come with him in a weird, double-piloted eva that apparently can trigger the Third Impact. When they do that, Wille attacks with Asuka and Mari and the final battle ensues. Already we run into a myriad of problems.

#1: It's been 14 years, and we have no clue as to what's happened in between. How did NERV and Wille become two separate entities? How long have they been fighting each other? How did Misato find out Gendo's plans? How in the name of FUCK have they been unable to destroy NERV so far? They know where they are, they have had loads of time, they have two fully operable evas with pilots, supported by an entire military fleet. NERV has exactly one eva, piloted by Rei. What in the name of Jesus bonkering christ have they been doing that has been more important than their, you know, SOLE PURPOSE OF EXISTENCE???? And what has Gendo been doing in this time? Twiddling his thumbs apparently, because his actions, motives and personality haven't changed at all from the previous film.

#2: The plot, if you even want to call it that, doesn't make sense and nothing of it is explained. Why does Gendo need Shinji specifically to trigger Third Impact? Why did it need to be set 14 years after the previous film? Seriously, name one good reason. Why doesn't Gendo for once in his life explain to Shinji what he needs him for? Why does Wille show up at the very last moment when they've known ALL ALONG WHERE SHINJI IS AND WHAT GENDO IS GOING TO USE HIM FOR?????????!??!??!??! And I'm not even sure what the purpose of Kaworu in this film was, aside from providing some incredibly awkward scenes with Shinji which I fear are going to turn into yaoi fan-fiction fodder instantly. Even the fact that he's actually an angel is only briefly mentioned in one line, despite it being one of the main plot points of the story. Third Impact happened, and humanity seems to have been wiped out. How are Misato, Asuka, Mari, and the entire crew of Wille's airship still alive? How is anyone still alive???

Everyone in this movie is a complete maniac with the possible exception of Fuyutsuki, who seems to be the only character that behaves like an actual human being. The rest are just batshit insane.

Let's start with Shinji. He's been trapped inside the Eva for 14 years, and his last memory is from 14 years ago. At first he's quite convincing being completely baffled and confused (no less than we are). When he demands answers, he just gets a scolding. The first warning light switches on when he meets Touji's little sister, who is actually now older than Shinji himself. Despite having last seen Touji ages ago, he doesn't bother asking where he's gone or what happened to the rest of his friends. A little odd, but acceptable.

The warning lights light up like christmas trees when he arrives at NERV HQ. Wille refused to give him answers, so maybe someone there would? He goes to Rei for answers, but she isn't actually the same Rei from the last film, but a clone of her. She doesn't remember anythig either. After not getting any more answers from her than he got from Misato, he apparenyl just lets it be and starts playing piano with Kaworu. It actually takes Fuyutsuki to finally provide some answers, and he has to actively tell them to Shinji. At one point Shinji comes by a shirt that has Touji's name on it, and even then he doesn't bother asking what happened to humanity. And then he kind of flips out and decides to go with Kaworu to Terminal Dogma to initiate Third (or was it Fourth already?) Impact, because Kaworu told him the only way to go is forward, as Shinji cannot redo what he's... ooooh, I see what you did there movie!

Misato, in all the around 15 minutes of screen time she gets, seems to have all her sanity. She's captured Shinji and threatens to kill him, but doesn't bother telling him why, or telling him anything at all. Brilliant! I've already mentioned all my questions regarding Wille, so suffice to say she's a terrible organization leader. Moving on.

Rei. IMO one of the best things about 2.0 was specifically Rei. In this movie, all of it is rendered completely pointless, as the Rei Shinji saved at the end of 2.0 has... gone somewhere (this wasn't explained either), and the Rei in 3.0 is actually a clone. So she has none of the memories, experiences or character development she had previously. She's an entirely different character, and most of her character moments boil down to "I'm a clone?" Give me one good reason why the previous Rei had to be eliminated. This character serves no purpose beyond a couple of fight scenes and making the movie even more confusing.

Mari and Asuka. All the way through 2.0 Mari's character had an aura of mystery surrounding her, suggesting a greater and darker meaning in the future. But no, she's just Asuka's whacky sidekick whose behavior is so utterly inhuman I'm pretty sure she's kept in a padded cell when she's not on pilot duty. And Asuka only has one thing to do in this movie, and that's being angry at Shinji, which is what she already had enough of in the series. Never mind the fact that their not aging is explained with such a hackneyed excuse as "Curse of Evangelion" which is never explained any further, because at that point I was so confused that I accepted even the flimsiest explanation. But the biggest dealbreaker is the fact that their personalities are still completely unchanged, not having matured at all, despite being twice the age they previously were.

Kaworu. I'm not sure what his point in this movie was. He didn't really do anything besides showing Shinji what the world has come to and teching him to play the piano. Honestly, I can't come up with anything.

In addition to this, we get Touji's little sister and some crewmembers of the Wille helicarrier, who are on screen for about 5 minutes and serve no purpose, yet are given quite clear personalities.

Why don't we get any information about the 14 years between 2.0 and now? Why has Lilith turned into a corpse in terminal dogma? Why are there suddenly two holy lances (Longinus and Cassius) which are apparently needed for Third Impact? Why is Eva Mark 06 inside Lilith's corpse? Why is the corpse resting on a mountain of skulls? If Gendo's intention was to start Third Impact all along and Kaworu was in his control, why did Kaworu stop it at the very end of 2.0? Why are two pilots needed to take the lances? Where exactly did Wille find the resources or even the people to start up a military organization if the human race is nearly extinct and the world in ruins? Why is Eva-00 suddenly being referred to as "Vessel of Adams" (in plural)? Why does Asuka refer to the human race as "Lilin"? What does Lilin even mean? Why are two of the biggest reveals of the entire series (Rei being a clone and the fact that Yui chose to remain inside Eva-01 willingly) revealed in an incredibly anticlimactic manner? What the fuck was that giant thing rising from underground at the end? How does Gendo run a massive military base when his entire staff includes himself, an old man, a half-mute clone, his son and a monster meant to bring the apocalypse? What the fuck was that "The Killing of God" stuff all about? Why was Eva-01 needed as a power source for the helicarrier when they've clearly established in the past that Evas also need power sources of their own?

Let's see the fanboys explain their way out of all that. On the positive side, the animation was of course gorgeous and I found Shinji to be at his most relatable in this movie, because most of the time he's just as confused as the audience, and there's next to none of his usual sulky-angsty shtick present. Plus there were a few call-backs to iconic scenes from the series, which got a chuckle out of me.
 

Casual Shinji

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Yeah, that movie sucked. By the end of it you feel like nothing has occured at all, and they could've just started the story off right there. The attempt to recreate the "Ode to Joy" sequence from the series fell flat on its ass, due to us not knowing what the stakes are and Kaworu's presence and demise not having any emotional impact.

So much time has past that this might as well be a totally different cast of characters in an equally different world. We don't know them, we don't know what they want, so we don't give a flying fuck.

I'm not a fan of the Rebuild movies, but when you set up NGE as a retelling that's more straight forward with characters that seem more keen to better their lives, you can't just pull a 180 like this for the sake of a twist.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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Wait wait wait... you guys have already seen it? Last I heard it had just left Japanese theaters a month or two ago, and wasn't expected on Japanese DVD for at least six months after that, with an indefinite window after that before leaving the country. How did you get your hands on it? I wouldn't have thought even the pirates would have it yet, let alone legitimate customers outside of Japan. The first one blew my mind when it ran on Toonami a month or two back, and I'd love to see the second and the third in one shot.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Wait wait wait... you guys have already seen it? Last I heard it had just left Japanese theaters a month or two ago, and wasn't expected on Japanese DVD for at least six months after that, with an indefinite window after that before leaving the country. How did you get your hands on it? I wouldn't have thought even the pirates would have it yet, let alone legitimate customers outside of Japan. The first one blew my mind when it ran on Toonami a month or two back, and I'd love to see the second and the third in one shot.
A friend of mine torrented it, simple as that. DOn't know where, probably piratebay.

And I'm really pissed, because I can't really recommend watching the second movie now either, despite me holding it as the second best interpretation of the story right after the manga. But the differences are already so big in the second one that it's impossible to watch the second and then the series from episode 20 onward and have it feel like logical canon.

Casual Shinji said:
Yeah, that movie sucked. By the end of it you feel like nothing has occured at all, and they could've just started the story off right there. The attempt to recreate the "Ode to Joy" sequence from the series fell flat on its ass, due to us not knowing what the stakes are and Kaworu's presence and demise not having any emotional impact.

So much time has past that this might as well be a totally different cast of characters in an equally different world. We don't know them, we don't know what they want, so we don't give a flying fuck.

I'm not a fan of the Rebuild movies, but when you set up NGE as a retelling that's more straight forward with characters that seem more keen to better their lives, you can't just pull a 180 like this for the sake of a twist.
I have two theories: either the script was heavily rewritten many times over, which might explain why it took so bloody long to be released, and they ended up with this absolute mess. That, or Hideaki Anno is the biggest troll in the entire history of trolls.
 

Casual Shinji

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bartholen said:
Casual Shinji said:
Yeah, that movie sucked. By the end of it you feel like nothing has occured at all, and they could've just started the story off right there. The attempt to recreate the "Ode to Joy" sequence from the series fell flat on its ass, due to us not knowing what the stakes are and Kaworu's presence and demise not having any emotional impact.

So much time has past that this might as well be a totally different cast of characters in an equally different world. We don't know them, we don't know what they want, so we don't give a flying fuck.

I'm not a fan of the Rebuild movies, but when you set up NGE as a retelling that's more straight forward with characters that seem more keen to better their lives, you can't just pull a 180 like this for the sake of a twist.
I have two theories: either the script was heavily rewritten many times over, which might explain why it took so bloody long to be released, and they ended up with this absolute mess. That, or Hideaki Anno is the biggest troll in the entire history of trolls.
I actually heard somewhere that it was rewritten. Though I also heard from Nouw that apparently the next movie would be all about what happened in those 14 years. If you remember, in the preview for 3.0 you saw scenes that weren't in the final movie, like Gendo climbing a mountain and shit. It could be that those scenes might actually be from the next movie. Still doesn't excuse 3.0 being a big fat pile of nothing though. Plus the next movie won't be out till 2015, and at this point I stopped giving a damn.

All I can do now is hope they'll one day release the original show and EoE on blu-ray and I'll be happy.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Casual Shinji said:
You know what'd be interesting? A supercut of both EoE and the final episodes of the original series combined into one 2-hour movie where all the insight bits are scattered in EoE during their appropriate moments. Like the scene from EoE when Asuka's lying at the bottom of the lake being intercut with her scenes from episode 25.
 

Casual Shinji

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bartholen said:
Casual Shinji said:
You know what'd be interesting? A supercut of both EoE and the final episodes of the original series combined into one 2-hour movie where all the insight bits are scattered in EoE during their appropriate moments. Like the scene from EoE when Asuka's lying at the bottom of the lake being intercut with her scenes from episode 25.
Yeah, but then the happy "congratulations" ending from the show would be pretty hard to intercut with Shinji choking the shit out of Asuka. :D
 

Soviet Heavy

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The story of Anno's insanity as described in animated format continues, it seems. The last two films were apparently the false positive that comes just before relapsing again.
 

Dansen

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Casual Shinji said:
Yeah, that movie sucked. By the end of it you feel like nothing has occured at all, and they could've just started the story off right there. The attempt to recreate the "Ode to Joy" sequence from the series fell flat on its ass, due to us not knowing what the stakes are and Kaworu's presence and demise not having any emotional impact.

So much time has past that this might as well be a totally different cast of characters in an equally different world. We don't know them, we don't know what they want, so we don't give a flying fuck.

I'm not a fan of the Rebuild movies, but when you set up NGE as a retelling that's more straight forward with characters that seem more keen to better their lives, you can't just pull a 180 like this for the sake of a twist.
It was okay. I have a feeling that 3.0 is just the calm before the storm. Some small falling action before everything goes to hell. Watching the third movie really made me realize that the movie format is detracting from the story though. I think that there were plenty of cool things to explore within the plot it's just that there wasn't enough time to cover any of it. Things like

Reasons for gendo's cybernetic implants
Where did Kaji go? Wille might be his idea
What happened to Rei. There is a little tease that suggests she is still around
I could go on

They should really do a small ova of the events directly proceeding the third impact.

I don't think that the plot itself is terrible its just that it lacks details and information to support it. I know you are a cynic when it comes to rebuild, but have hope maybe the final film will leave you pleasantly surprised.
 

Casual Shinji

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Dansen said:
It was okay. I have a feeling that 3.0 is just the calm before the storm. Some small falling action before everything goes to hell. Watching the third movie really made me realize that the movie format is detracting from the story though. I think that there were plenty of cool things to explore within the plot it's just that there wasn't enough time to cover any of it. Things like

Reasons for gendo's cybernetic implants
Where did Kaji go? Wille might be his idea
What happened to Rei. There is a little tease that suggests she is still around
I could go on

They should really do a small ova of the events directly proceeding the third impact.

I don't think that the plot itself is terrible its just that it lacks details and information to support it. I know you are a cynic when it comes to rebuild, but have hope maybe the final film will leave you pleasantly surprised.
In the end though it just felt like a giant waste of time. The first two films, while not really to my liking, at least had something to show. Well, not so much the first, but the second did anyway. As a matter of fact, 2.0 ended in a way that broke away from the series, which the movies up till that point had been following pretty accurately... sorta.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was interested in seeing what would happen next, with Kaworu returning, seemingly aware of the events of the original show, Asuka taking the stage with a freaking eye patch, and ofcourse Shinji and Rei's predicament in Eva 01.

Then the third movie does... nothing. It doesn't set up anything that wasn't already set up by the ending of 2.0, and it doesn't follow up on anything that isn't rendered meaningless by the end. It's just a spin cycle of disjointedness.
 

Nouw

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Two reasons Q is a decent film.


Extra. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200601545151246&set=vb.1538029911&type=2&theater]
I'm pretty psyched to see it again with my mates because I see Q as a guilty pleasure, a cinema spectacle to enjoy and quite frankly if it didn't have the amazing soundtrack it has I would be much less partial to it. Shiro Sagisu, you did it again!
TizzytheTormentor said:
I was told Evangelion was really good, so I went to check it out, sadly, I stared with End of Evangelion and watched some asshole jack off over a comatose lady...

...so yeah, stopped watching at that point (which is only a few minutes in)

I have also heard many fans are fiercely loyal to the show and hate anyone who dares point out something they don't like about it (not all fans of course) I might watch it again...but goddamn, that creepy as f**k hospital scene...
There is a thread on evageeks.forum called "Where does the hate come from?" I'll leave you to figure out what went in there :p. Best to avoid those kind of fans >.>. I promise I'm not one of them!

I really wouldn't let that one scene stop you. Out of context, it is called the End of Evangelion after all, that scene is quite fucked up. Hell, he even admits it himself.[sub]Some say the closer translation is "I'm scum" which I prefer.[/sub]But then again, doesn't that count for any scene with such content taken out of context? I implore you to keep watching.
 

Nouw

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TizzytheTormentor said:
Nouw said:
I really wouldn't let that one scene stop you. Out of context, it is called the End of Evangelion after all, that scene is quite fucked up. Hell, he even admits it himself.[sub]Some say the closer translation is "I'm scum" which I prefer.[/sub]But then again, doesn't that count for any scene with such content taken out of context? I implore you to keep watching.
I would...but damn, that scene was really screwed up, especially since it was the first scene I ever saw of the Evangelion series...I also can't look at the main character knowing he is gonna do that later.

Might watch it later, but that scene has been burned into my brain...

Shinji: " I'm scum"
Me: "Yes, yes you are, ya freak!
Can't blame 'ya, that's probably the worst scene to get someone into Evangelion xD. Hell, anything from that film is pretty scarring.
 

Rip Van Rabbit

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[Spoilers and opinions will be contained in this post!] ...so avert your eyes or scroll over what I said.

[hr]

I love the original tv series, EOE and I even love the Rebuild films. (All for their own merits. My tastes are pretty flexible...or perhaps I just enjoy that universe to a great degree.)

Something to note: The entire plot could have been reversed if Misato had explained to Shinji what had happened when he was in quarantine. It would take about 5 minutes!...or if she had blown his head off...heh

Evangelion 3.0? It was okay, but it's huge missteps could have been rectified with an extra 30-40 minutes. Show me what happened to the main cast in the 14 year time-skip.

Evangelion's greatest strength was the way it handled characterization. It gave us depth, context and perspective based on the actions and interactions of it's main cast.

Show me:

- Misato: How her ideals conflicted with NERV's. The process in which she created Wille. Her rise to power. The trauma she had to endure. How her motherly care towards Shinji has become twisted due to 14 years of the world's carnage. Show me her interactions with other members of the cast during that time. Show me how she had become so ruthless and calculating.

- Asuka: Show me her transformation from a teenager brimming with arrogance and pride into that of an embittered mercenary. I want to see more of her interpersonal (How Shinji's actions affected her life) and physical struggles (Adjusting to the loss of an eye. Although it's debatable whether the eye is damaged or lost.). I know she has a fiery temperament, I want to see how that growing anger and grief has shaped her actions in combat and outside them. Show me your relationship with Misato, how you seem to be in her favour and direct your aggression outwards while she tries to contain them under aloof silence. Also, show me why you chose to join Wille.

- Mari: Why did you join Wille? I want more of your backstory! Show me how your relationship with Asuka developed! (I really wanted to see Asuka losing her shit after discovering what Mari did to Unit-02) I like you, you're mysterious, positive, feral, reckless and badass in 2.0 (You're no Asuka though...), now you're more carefree and badass in 3.0...give me depth and motivation! I don't want you to exist to be the action girl/fanservice girl.

- Ritsuko: Same as Misato above. I want to see your motivation for turning against NERV. If you did really turn against NERV in the first place...

- Gendo and Fuyutsuki: What did you DO in those 14 years...

- Rei: Why did they have to hit the reset button on you? Shinji was able to be restored, why couldn't the emotionally developed Rei in 2.0 come back? Unless I missed a detail there...

[hr]

I'm not going to touch on the main plot this time. To me, I value characterisation more. I feel that 3.0's plot could have had more weight and depth if the characters were given more care in their execution.

I will highlight one gripe, and this is my personal motto: "Every moment you wasted on Kaworu or that fucking piano, you could have spent on Asuka/Misato/Mari. Mainly Asuka."

[hr]

I was hyped to see this film, I really love the previous Rebuild movies. But this could have been handled much better. Overall, it's a lovely spectacle. But looking under the surface, it looks like Anno is trying to recreate depth by going the way of sheer convolution. (Okay, things were always a little convoluted, but hey, at least most of it was explained...somewhat)

Positive points: Animation was gorgeous, Asuka's badass character design is awesome, Shiro Sagisu is a master with regards to the soundtrack.

Lastly: Beast Mode. Can we see more of these...please!? Because I flipped my shit when Asuka invoked the feral transformation on Unit-02. [small][sub]I found it cute that it was a big kitty[/sub][/small]
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Casual Shinji said:
bartholen said:
Casual Shinji said:
You know what'd be interesting? A supercut of both EoE and the final episodes of the original series combined into one 2-hour movie where all the insight bits are scattered in EoE during their appropriate moments. Like the scene from EoE when Asuka's lying at the bottom of the lake being intercut with her scenes from episode 25.
Yeah, but then the happy "congratulations" ending from the show would be pretty hard to intercut with Shinji choking the shit out of Asuka. :D
It's at moments like these I realize I've given way too much thought to a series I don't even like, but I think the "Congratulations" scene would be right before Lilith's throat gets slit, and then the rest of EoE just plays out normally. From what I've gathered, that's the moment when Shinji rejects instrumentality and decides to live as an individual again. But I agree that the disparity between "CONGRATULATIONS CONGRATULATIONS CONGRATULATIONS" with upbeat piano music in the background intercut with the hellish landscape at the end of EoE would be pretttty freaky.
 

beniki

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Well, having not seen the new Eva series, I can't comment on the insanity content... to be honest I saw some concept art for Eva spaceships and was baffled.

The original series, though, was a Gainax satire on the state of popular big mecha anime at the time; the usual plot line being 'high school boy in spandex out to kick some alien ass with fighting spirit!!' Eva took that, and turned it on it's head by giving the characters more grounding in reality, showing how truly insane such a plot is. Case in point: the one time Shinji went out in his Eva with spirit, he was slapped down for his overconfidence and trapped in the sea of Dirac, to be confronted by his crippling insecurities again.

That's why a lot of the episodes follow the generic anime plot lines popular back then, but with a twist: hot spring episode where the female lead was put in padded clothing, for example, where the fan service carrier was revealed only to show her scars.

I can't comment on the state of anime these days, but does the new Eva equally take current trends and turn them on their head? The original series was a pretty smart look at big mecha anime, and also took shots at shounen anime in general. That's really what made Gainax stand all those years ago... are they still keeping up the tradition?
 

CrazyGirl17

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As much as I like the concept shown here (ie: Shinji dealing with the consequences of his actions in the last movie), but it could have been done a LOT better. Like, you know, showing just what happened in the 14 years between movies...

Ir's especially depressing, seeing as how the last few movies seemed to be a bit more hopeful. It honestly feels like we're backsliding a bit. GODDAMNIT, Anno, do we need to have a talk?
 

Angie7F

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All I know is that I was depressed that when eva started I was Shinji's age.
Then, befoer I knew it I was about to be older than Misato.
Now, I am not, so , that gave me a wierd relief.