So I might be going to court, Escapist.

[w1ndscar]

So Escapist,

It seems that I might be going to court with in the near future, and I wanted to gather thoughts on this situation by any of you who are interested. Heres the main story. I bought this car from a friend of mine. And we made an agreement that I would pay her monthly, until I reached the amount we agreed on, 1200$. Everything is verbal, except the receipts of payments.

So, we talked over the agreements multiple times, every single time I had conversation with her, I went over everything. How much I'd pay, when, and all that sweet legal stuff. Now, regarding those two things, how much and when: I said "I will pay you no matter what, 100$ every month, but I would like to try to pay you 250$, IF I CAN. If I keep getting enough hours at work, I will try to pay you 250$, but no matter what I promise and agree to pay you 100$." And she agreed. Now lets look over that again, just to make sure. According to the standard English language and its meanings, try, and promise are two completely different things. Anyone with common sense should know this.

Now here's the fun part. She let her boyfriend drive her car, not being on her insurance (Great idea amIright?) and of course, he wrecked it. (He claims he tried to avoid hitting a dear, but his car was completely on its side.. Chances are he was speeding and couldn't make a turn or something, but who knows.) Since he wasn't on her insurance, and he completely totaled it, her insurance obviously sky rocketed. And to add on to her obvious intelligence, she doesn't have a job, and has been relying on my payments to her to solve all her financial problems. Well, 100$ isn't gonna cover her insurance now, and of course the first thing she wants to do is look to me expecting me to jump and hand her more money than the 100$ I promised.

Little insight, when I said I /might/ pay 250, I was making 300-400 a paycheck, and I said specifically if I kept getting so much hours Id /try/ to. Last month, I was barely able to pay 177 a month, combining her and insurance together, since they've added 4 new people to the roster at my work. So naturally I am paying her 100$ like I promised her. But now she wants more than that, and I still cant do that. So she tried to say that she was going to take the car, with no grounds to justify her means. The Title is completely in my name, her name wont be found anywhere on it. So even if she brought police, once I show them the Title with my name on it, they won't be able to do anything because there is absolutely no proof that I have to pay her any set amount of money, because again, everything has been verbal.

I told her if she wanted it back so badly she would have to go to court for it. And I'm pretty sure a verbal agreement wont hold up in court, and even if it did, I've done what I promised I would do, so I'm not at fault for anything. I even have her signature as to receiving money from me and the dates.

So Escapist what do you think? I for one, does not believe this will amount to anything, but its an interesting thought to realize you might have to go to court. I also believe no matter what she will be at a loss. If she takes me to court, she'll probably lose, and will have to pay the court fees. If she won, or I gave her the car back, shed be stuck with a bad car that no one will want. (I do admit to be at fault for being the idiot to have thought getting this car at the price offered was a good idea. Damn was I desperate. Im paying 1200$ and I still got to pay 300-400 dollars to fix the windshield, 100$ to fix two windows so they can roll up and down, 20$ for interior door handles, and then the price of a new radio, and maybe even installation if I can't get a friend to do it. Yeah, dumb idea on my part, but I made the agreement and I'm keeping it.) And if she continues to let me pay her 100$ she might be partially OK for the next couple of months, but once I'm done paying, she wont have any money to pay for her insurance. Bottom line is shes trying to avoid having her spoiled ass to work, and shes trying to use me to achieve that, and it aint happenin'. No matter her route shes gonna need a job, but she doesn't want to accept that. OH YEAH. Shes wanting to move to Colorado with her boyfriend, and shes only 17, not even out of high school, and has yet had a job.

 

[minsc123]

I doubt she will even take you to court unless she has truly lost her mind... Given the weakness in her case, the cost behind even FILING a court case, and the undoubted court fees that will FOLLOW the loss I would be surprised if she followed through.

That, and how is she suing if she is 17? I'm fairly sure you have to do it through your parents/guardian if you are under 18...

 

[w1ndscar]

Her mother is completely behind her on this, which is sad considering I'm pretty sure that the U.S. Court system wouldn't uphold any verbal agreements.. And even in that note technically I don't have to pay her anything, because our verbal agreement wouldn't uphold in court, and the car is already completely in my name.

Shes trying to say now that since I wont pay her more than 100$ a month that Ill have to come to her house a city over to pay her, but I don't see why I have to go to her house to pay her money. So I was thinking I could just say if you want it, come get it. After all shes getting a hundred dollars shouldn't hurt her to come get the money herself since she wants it so badly..

 

[Mekado]

I doubt it'll go to court, and if it does she dosen't have even half a case.She's probably just desperate for any cash inflow at the moment and grasping at anything, i wouldn't worry about it.

As far as going 1 city over to pay her, ever thought about mailing a check ? it'll avoid seeing her since i guess you're not in the best of terms now...

 

[w1ndscar]

I'd prefer to have her signature as proof of receiving the monies though, to further help keep me in the clear.

 

[Dastardly]

I'd prefer to have her signature as proof of receiving the monies though, to further help keep me in the clear.

You'll have her signature on the check, as it has to be endorsed before the bank can process it. That way, you can prove that the check was cashed and that she's the one that cashed it.

She doesn't have a case, if the title is in your name. From a legal standpoint, that transaction is complete--the car is yours. If there is no document stating the total amount you would pay, she has no further claim. You could, conceivably, counter her threat to sue by simply stating, "If you try to violate our verbal agreement by pursuing this in court, I will terminate our verbal agreement. The car is already mine, and I'll just consider it 'paid in full' on my end."

Let her know that you're willing to go forward with the original agreement, but any further tampering with that will result in the whole thing being cancelled. She'll learn, in the future, to "get it in writing," and not to turn over the title until the money is received in full. And you've hopefully learned to get it in writing, too.

 

[Mekado]

I'd prefer to have her signature as proof of receiving the monies though, to further help keep me in the clear.

The paper trail is actually very strong with checks, like Dastardly said, the bank has your proof and it's better than a random piece of paper with "i received x$ from z person on y day"

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Her mother is completely behind her on this, which is sad considering I'm pretty sure that the U.S. Court system wouldn't uphold any verbal agreements.. And even in that note technically I don't have to pay her anything, because our verbal agreement wouldn't uphold in court, and the car is already completely in my name.

Shes trying to say now that since I wont pay her more than 100$ a month that Ill have to come to her house a city over to pay her, but I don't see why I have to go to her house to pay her money. So I was thinking I could just say if you want it, come get it. After all shes getting a hundred dollars shouldn't hurt her to come get the money herself since she wants it so badly..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_contract
Oral contracts can be upheld in court, they are just difficult to prove. In this case there are DMV records to show that the vehicle belonged to her (or her parents) and now to you so you obviously received something from her. If she has copies of receipts she can show that she received something from you. That is all that is really necessary to evidence that some form on contract exists, that you received something from her and she received something from you. If you admit that you had an oral contract then she does not even need to prove it, and I would not suggest denying it or challenging her to prove it in court. If there are witnesses then they can attest to the details of the contract.

There may be mitigating laws depending on where you live. Technicalities may screw her but leave that for the judge to decide, do not try to take advantage or the judge may lay the smack down on you if you have interpreted the technicalities wrongly. You'll just look like some jerk trying to get out of paying what you owe. There may also be certain specifications in your state for what is considered a legally binding oral contract. If yours does not fit the specifications that may not be relevant. You did indeed receive something from her and she does indeed deserve just compensation. To 'undo' the contract would require you to give back the car and them to give you back your money. Considering the stage of things at this point I highly doubt a judge would order such a resolution. It will likely be treated as a binding contract regardless.

If there is nothing written anywhere regarding the amount that you owe her, only the amounts paid, she will not be able to show how much you owe her. Though if a judge accepts that there was indeed a contract of some sort the judge may decide that you owe an amount commensurate with the standard quoted value (minus any necessary repairs and what you have already paid). I'm not sure how likely that is but judges typically don't like the idea of people getting screwed over so if you bicker over the amount owed the judge may calculate an appropriate amount on their own. Just in case I would suggest being prepared for this by bringing kelly bluebook quotes for the car and receipts for any work you have had done on the car particularly any necessary repairs. Also pics of the car to show the condition for assessing proper bluebook value.

As far as paying her the judge may ask if you can pay the rest in full that day. If you can not the judge will ask what you can pay. Tell the judge $100 dollars a month and it will likely be granted so long as the judge decides that it is a reasonable sum considering your finances. DO NOT stop paying her because she wants you to come to her. You ARE required to do what ever is within reason to make your payments to her. If there was a written contract for you to refer to that said payments are to be made in a particular fashion then you could show that if she claims that you refused to make payments. Without specification the standard in court will simply be what ever is reasonable and asking you to drive over in your car you just bought is not likely to seem unreasonable to any judge unless she moves off to Colorado.


Caveat: I am not a lawyer.

 

[w1ndscar]

Snip

I see, makes sense, but I also do not have any actual intention to not pay her, I mean it would be lols if I actually got the car for 200$ but like I told her, Ill pay her her money, but its gonna be at 100$ a month. If she wants her spoiled ass to pay off her car insurance she needs to get herself a job, not try to screw me over. I was also told by someone that if she were to be given the car back, shed have to pay me for every penny I had to put into it, for tagging it transferring the title, the payments on the car itself and the insurance, is this true/possible?

 

[Zantos]

I don't see this going through to be honest. Wouldn't it cost more than the car is worth just to hire the lawyer? Either way as long as you keep paying her, the case is clearly in your favour. If it does go to court, I can't see any way short of ridiculous legal technicalities (the sort you'd definitely need an expensive lawyer to pick out) that they wouldn't find in your favour.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I see, makes sense, but I also do not have any actual intention to not pay her, I mean it would be lols if I actually got the car for 200$ but like I told her, Ill pay her her money, but its gonna be at 100$ a month. If she wants her spoiled ass to pay off her car insurance she needs to get herself a job, not try to screw me over. I was also told by someone that if she were to be given the car back, shed have to pay me for every penny I had to put into it, for tagging it transferring the title, the payments on the car itself and the insurance, is this true/possible?

Any money you spent on fixing the car you should be able to get back otherwise she is receiving something for nothing. Insurance is unlikely in my opinion. If you drove the vehicle you needed insurance to do so. You are the only one (between you two) that benefited and you are not out money really because you did receive the benefit of being an insured driver for how ever long you drove the vehicle. Tags here in CA go with the car no matter who owns it. If that is the case in your state it should be treated the same way as any repairs you made. Cost for transfer of title you would argue was an expense incurred by your expectation of owning the vehicle and you are out that money if you no longer own the vehicle. If there is some law or regulation saying you should not have made a title transfer until she was fully paid then you may be out the money.

Any benefit she receives she should have to pay for. You can potentially go for any money you are out for anything you will not be receiving any benefit from. If the judge decides that the contract was not legal though you may not be able to expect those other expenses back, only what ever you paid that she benefits from.

 

[w1ndscar]

snip

I see, I have a question though, I have to pay her on the 16th of this month, but she also has stated I can either take the money to her, pay by Western union, or mail her the money. If I mail her a money order on the 16th would that be considered as me paying her on the 16th?

 

[Aur0ra145]

The car title is in your name? No written contract? And you've been paying her steadily since receiving the car?

Yeah. Don't worry about court, generally most people threaten it without knowing the full repercussions surrounding a court proceeding.

 

[CrazyMedic]

snip

I see, I have a question though, I have to pay her on the 16th of this month, but she also has stated I can either take the money to her, pay by Western union, or mail her the money. If I mail her a money order on the 16th would that be considered as me paying her on the 16th?

from what I understand it is dependant on its post marked date but like with all things the judge could be a jerk and lawyers cost money so avoid court at all costs, my dad would be on disability right now if the judge think my dads TMJ headaches=her PMS headaches(she stated that on the record that since she works with her PMS headaches my dad can get though his too) so there is a cautionary tale for you judges are not perfect and weird rulings can be made.

 

[mesoforte]

Make sure and dress really nice if you can. I mean full blown suit and tie. Most judges like that.

 

[w1ndscar]

snip

I see, I have a question though, I have to pay her on the 16th of this month, but she also has stated I can either take the money to her, pay by Western union, or mail her the money. If I mail her a money order on the 16th would that be considered as me paying her on the 16th?

from what I understand it is dependant on its post marked date but like with all things the judge could be a jerk and lawyers cost money so avoid court at all costs, my dad would be on disability right now if the judge think my dads TMJ headaches=her PMS headaches(she stated that on the record that since she works with her PMS headaches my dad can get though his too) so there is a cautionary tale for you judges are not perfect and weird rulings can be made.

Wow what an asshole. I would go for an appeal, Im sure what your dad does is alot different then sitting down and listening to arguments all day.. And I really dont want to go to court, I think this whole thing is beyond ridiculous..

 

[Mekado]

snip

I see, I have a question though, I have to pay her on the 16th of this month, but she also has stated I can either take the money to her, pay by Western union, or mail her the money. If I mail her a money order on the 16th would that be considered as me paying her on the 16th?

Legally yes, it's the post office stamp date that counts.It's a bit of a jerk move but it's legal.

Then again, after all this trouble, being a little bit of a jerk while staying on solid legal ground might not be all that bad...

 

[w1ndscar]

snip

I see, I have a question though, I have to pay her on the 16th of this month, but she also has stated I can either take the money to her, pay by Western union, or mail her the money. If I mail her a money order on the 16th would that be considered as me paying her on the 16th?

Legally yes, it's the post office stamp date that counts.It's a bit of a jerk move but it's legal.

Then again, after all this trouble, being a little bit of a jerk while staying on solid legal ground might not be all that bad...

I have a 25 minute drive one way everyday to Jamestown and then back, 4 days a week, and I can already barely afford paying her and insurance, I don't have the time or monies to drive out to her spoiled self's house. :/

 

[Mekado]

snip

I see, I have a question though, I have to pay her on the 16th of this month, but she also has stated I can either take the money to her, pay by Western union, or mail her the money. If I mail her a money order on the 16th would that be considered as me paying her on the 16th?

Legally yes, it's the post office stamp date that counts.It's a bit of a jerk move but it's legal.

Then again, after all this trouble, being a little bit of a jerk while staying on solid legal ground might not be all that bad...

I have a 25 minute drive one way everyday to Jamestown and then back, 4 days a week, and I can already barely afford paying her and insurance, I don't have the time or monies to drive out to her spoiled self's house. :/

Oh, don't get me wrong, i actually agree with this, it's what i'd do anyways.I was just saying she might not like it, but you're covered as long as you make sure the post office stamp is on the 16th (ie, don't mail it the 16th at 6pm)