So I was just replaying Mass Effect 1 and...
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Agreed. You also have to think that it was a completely different culture. It's not just about language barriers: the Protheans thought in different ways. For some reason, they thought the beacons were enough as a warning, or thought it was the only "message" that would survive and not be destroyed by the Reapers. Someone pointed out that the Protheans spent much time researching a way to make the modification they did to the Keepers, maybe they couldn't afford to do modifications that would prevent the Keepers from destroying any message left at the citadel.Stiffkittin said:
Also, there is the language barrier. Of course, Vigil can break it, but it was a VI left in a planet that was the last refuge of the Protheans. Maybe they didn't have a way to take the VI to the Citadel, or maybe they thought it was too obvious and the Reapers would find it.
Anyway, I really don't think this is a plot hole. There are other, more "questionable" plot points in the ME story, especially in ME2, so I wouldn't fret about this.
Actually it's really simple. There was no need for leaving info laying around in the citadel. They put the mini relay right in the middle of the citadel so anyone testing it would be sent to Ilos and the VI. They simply didn't count on the stupidity of the aliens that saw it thinking the relay was just a piece of art and ignoring it.
The VI specifically states that it can only operate for someone going from Ilos to the Citadel.Luhrsen said:
They probably did leave a message on the Citadel. As well as a half dozen or so bodies of scientists and a giant working mass relay "statue.". However, the keepers probably cleaned it up. If you've played 2, you know the Reapers use other races as spies, thieves and saboteurs.Indecipherable said:
Also, humanity is really late to the party. For all we know, there was a big Asari cover up of some artifacts they found when they first got to the Citadel.
Actually, the bigger question I had is...Indecipherable said:
Why did Saren need to attack Eden Prime to learn the location of the Conduit?
Wait - I'm not done yet...
When, as a Spectre, he already had full access to the Citadel and could have walked in, pressed the doom button, and left no one the wiser until hot Reaper death arrived.
(of course, the real answer is "because if he'd done that, there wouldn't have been a game")
Interesting idea. I don't remember the VI having any part in operating the relay. The codex said the relays were self contained and operated by the starship's own comm signals. Granted the VI might be able to tell the relay to open on his side, but the doesn't mean someone else on the citadel can't open it from that end.ChipSandwich said:
Vigil pointed you to the Conduit. I think Saren and Soverign activated it when they got there.
And yes, there was a warning. The first VI you encounter on Ilos is broken and yer squad members talk to you about not understanding it, but Shepard does. It's a broken message about the invasion going on and how it can't be stopped. Vigil was yer other warning left behind... although not the best.
And yes, there was a warning. The first VI you encounter on Ilos is broken and yer squad members talk to you about not understanding it, but Shepard does. It's a broken message about the invasion going on and how it can't be stopped. Vigil was yer other warning left behind... although not the best.
Liara says straight out that the scarce evidence makes it seem as though all evidence has been systematically erased, and she's got fifty ears of research backing her up (as she reminds you several times after you rescue her).
After they wiped out the Protheans (and turned them into the Collectors) Nazara aka Sovereign was left behind as a Reaper agent to restart the cycle in 50,000 years. He stayed behind, dormant, until the time was right.
The Prothean beacons, the barely functional Vigil AI on Ilos, these are the only remnants Sovereign wasn't able to erase entirely.
As you find out in ME2, ordinarily the Keepers are supposed to reactivate the Citadel to let the Reapers through, but the Protheans managed to modify them so they became harmless caretakers instead of Reaper agents. This is why Sovereign had to recruit Saren and find the Conduit on Ilos to seize control of the Citadel directly.
After they wiped out the Protheans (and turned them into the Collectors) Nazara aka Sovereign was left behind as a Reaper agent to restart the cycle in 50,000 years. He stayed behind, dormant, until the time was right.
The Prothean beacons, the barely functional Vigil AI on Ilos, these are the only remnants Sovereign wasn't able to erase entirely.
As you find out in ME2, ordinarily the Keepers are supposed to reactivate the Citadel to let the Reapers through, but the Protheans managed to modify them so they became harmless caretakers instead of Reaper agents. This is why Sovereign had to recruit Saren and find the Conduit on Ilos to seize control of the Citadel directly.
I haven't just replayed it and was going from books and wiki's.Indecipherable said:
So your original point is they didn't leave messages, now you agree they did. So what is your actual point?
I thought that that was explained; as far as i was aware, Sovereign was used as a propaganda piece, and was cited to simply be a "Geth Flagship".Indecipherable said:
It is highly improbable that there would be major similarities between the Prothean's language and the the languages spoken by younger species, so the Protheans would have been unable to write any warning down. They couldn't have simply scribbled a crude drawing onto a rock, either; if you were out climbing, say, and you found a rock with a race of sentient machines destroying all life in the Galaxy on it, would you think "Cool story, bro" or genuinely believe that a race of sentient machines will destroy all life in the Galaxy?
Mass Effect 2 spoilers ahoy!
Also, I thought that the Collectors were Protheans? If that's the case, then maybe the Protheans/Collectors went back and removed any warnings left behind while they were under the control of the Reapers, but that's just a theory.
Edit: I've probably already been Ninja'd.
Presumably because its very, very difficult to communicate with someone if you share have no linguistic, cultural or biological similarities. The AI presumably learned a little something of humans (and all the other aliens) in his 50,000 years of chill time, but transmitting a concrete (or even abstract) message to an alien race in mind-bendingly difficult.
Consider: modern scientists are currently tasked with trying to create effective warning labels on radioactive waste that will prevent humans from tampering with the stuff for +10,0000 years. The problem? Whole civilizations could rise and fall by then, and human culture could be vastly different. So how do tell people not to touch the stuff?
Any human language could (and probably will) be dead in that time frame, so written messages are worthless. Pictures might be a better option, until you realize that pictoral elements that we might consider "universal," like an "X" or skull and cross-bones have different meanings than the ones we know in other, current cultures on earth.
Moreover, simply making the waste hard to get to while giving vague warnings of danger might have an unintended consequence. Think about it: if you stumbled across the entrance to a mine shaft from an ancient civilization, with a warning about terrible dangers that lurked within, what would you assume was inside? Buried treasure? Ancient mystical secrets? Either way, you or your local Indiana Jones would be down that hole in a heartbeat.
If its that hard to get something across to future versions of your own species, imagine trying to formulate a communication to an unknown set of species from unknown worlds across a geological timescale. I think they ended up doing a pretty decent job.
Consider: modern scientists are currently tasked with trying to create effective warning labels on radioactive waste that will prevent humans from tampering with the stuff for +10,0000 years. The problem? Whole civilizations could rise and fall by then, and human culture could be vastly different. So how do tell people not to touch the stuff?
Any human language could (and probably will) be dead in that time frame, so written messages are worthless. Pictures might be a better option, until you realize that pictoral elements that we might consider "universal," like an "X" or skull and cross-bones have different meanings than the ones we know in other, current cultures on earth.
Moreover, simply making the waste hard to get to while giving vague warnings of danger might have an unintended consequence. Think about it: if you stumbled across the entrance to a mine shaft from an ancient civilization, with a warning about terrible dangers that lurked within, what would you assume was inside? Buried treasure? Ancient mystical secrets? Either way, you or your local Indiana Jones would be down that hole in a heartbeat.
If its that hard to get something across to future versions of your own species, imagine trying to formulate a communication to an unknown set of species from unknown worlds across a geological timescale. I think they ended up doing a pretty decent job.