So I was just traumatized
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I think parent on child relationships should be prohibited no matter what. As you didn't go into it, neither will I. No explanation necessary.verdant monkai said:
So, onto the romantically plausible ones:
I think it's unethical to have a child of your own blood if you're closely related to the person you love. If you're brother and sister, then you ought to adopt. Beyond that, I can't find any compelling reason to call it unethical-- or "all kinds of wrong" as you put it.
I'm not saying there aren't any reasons at all; but all the ones I can think of must necessarily stem from a belief that we have the right to influence each others' behaviour in society EVEN where that behaviour has no bearing on us beyond offense or disgust and does no provable harm to society as long as the above prohibitions are respected most of the time (there will always be crime of course).
Well, I'm fundamentally opposed to that view. That is, I find what I deem to be the arrogance of that view disgusting.
If they're not unethically reproducing, who the hell am I- and who the hell is anyone else, parents, society, the authorities- to say anything? The answer in my view is that we're nobody, and should keep our mouths shut and girthy, pretension-swollen noses out.
I think the circumstances surrounding an incestuous relationship are as likely to make a good story as the next, non-incestuous one. And I say that as someone whose natural disinclination toward his own sibling is as strong as it gets; she's sexless as far as I've always been concerned.
Still, if it turns your stomach, it turns your stomach. I'd accept that even if you said "Just because". Different people have different tolerances and I respect that.
Until it turned into a romance series, OreImo was a pretty good series about acceptance of others, friendship and main character Kyousuke repairing his rocky relationship with his sister, Kirino. The most interesting part of the series was how Kirino began to take more pride in her interest in anime, and other things, as she became friends with others who accept her, and how her friends and parents, who originally viewed her hobbies as socially unacceptable, begin to become more accepting of her.
Since all of this is resolved in the first season, the second season just turns into a romance anime, where basically all of the girls fall in love with Kyousuke. And he shoots them all down for his sister. Even with the "incest subtext" in the first season, it could very easily have been written off as being an unfortunate side effect of the series following the improving relationship between two siblings. Heck, they could have played it for comedy if they wanted to. It's a shame that it had to develop into an actual incestual relationship. It wasn't even a particularly good love story, either. Of course, Kirino calls it off at the end, after a fake wedding, but even that feels like a cop-out. The ending is kind of stuck in a rough place because of it; the whole incest thing is really taboo and a little bit unsettling, and the series acknowledges it, but then when it comes around to calling it off, all of the buildup toward it is basically for naught. They tried to have it both ways and failed.
... Besides, Kyousuke should've just stuck with Kuroneko. She was crazy about him, and he really liked going out with her, too. It could have made a better ending, too, and avoided this whole incest thing. I even think Kuroneko's a more interesting character than Kirino is.
EDIT: I can't decide on my overall opinion on OreImo. While I am certain that I enjoyed the first season more than the second, the second season wasn't actually that bad; it certainly had high points, as well as low points. My feelings on it actually flip-flop around a lot; sometimes I feel like it's pretty good, other times I feel like it's just kinda meh. I remember quitting after the tenth episode of the second season because I didn't really like where the story was obviously going, but I went back to it eventually, and I remember being a little bit excited for the OVAs. So... yeah.
Since all of this is resolved in the first season, the second season just turns into a romance anime, where basically all of the girls fall in love with Kyousuke. And he shoots them all down for his sister. Even with the "incest subtext" in the first season, it could very easily have been written off as being an unfortunate side effect of the series following the improving relationship between two siblings. Heck, they could have played it for comedy if they wanted to. It's a shame that it had to develop into an actual incestual relationship. It wasn't even a particularly good love story, either. Of course, Kirino calls it off at the end, after a fake wedding, but even that feels like a cop-out. The ending is kind of stuck in a rough place because of it; the whole incest thing is really taboo and a little bit unsettling, and the series acknowledges it, but then when it comes around to calling it off, all of the buildup toward it is basically for naught. They tried to have it both ways and failed.
... Besides, Kyousuke should've just stuck with Kuroneko. She was crazy about him, and he really liked going out with her, too. It could have made a better ending, too, and avoided this whole incest thing. I even think Kuroneko's a more interesting character than Kirino is.
EDIT: I can't decide on my overall opinion on OreImo. While I am certain that I enjoyed the first season more than the second, the second season wasn't actually that bad; it certainly had high points, as well as low points. My feelings on it actually flip-flop around a lot; sometimes I feel like it's pretty good, other times I feel like it's just kinda meh. I remember quitting after the tenth episode of the second season because I didn't really like where the story was obviously going, but I went back to it eventually, and I remember being a little bit excited for the OVAs. So... yeah.
There's several studies that found that offspring from 'first degree' (roughly 50% shared genetic material) relatives hugely increase the chances of birth defects. Some clock in at an almost 40% rate of birth defect.Kalezian said:
'2nd Degree' and further on isn't so bad. Somewhere are 4%, which isn't that far off from the norm. And it wasn't like 40% of the kids were popping out with extra arms and their brains on the outsides.
The physical aspect of incest isn't really the worst of it though - anti-incest is very ingrained into human beings, to the point where ignoring it, or not experiencing the 'ick' factor, can be worrying in itself. A very strong argument can be made that anti-incest behavior is, in fact, not learned. It's even quite prevalent in the animal kingdom, even amongst species where one would think it would be impossible to learn, such as cockroaches. Hell, a variety of plants have mechanisms specifically to avoid such relationships, and those things just spew their load out into the big wild world without giving two shits (Except for this particular thing).
A multitude of literature has been spawned to cover the psychology of incest, and a lot of it uses terminology and arguments that uncomfortably close to some things you've probably heard when talking about rape - Disparity of power, inability to consent due to compromised intellectual and emotional reasoning, stuff like that. And that does not just apply to parent-offspring.
Granted, a lot of the arguments also stink of the old view of homosexuality. So maybe they need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Like in most things that deal heavily with the mind, I just have to throw my hands in the air and declare 'The fuck if I know.' But it's of my opinion that it really can't be health is most cases. What it comes down to, for me, is that while I view (Or rather feel) 'unconventional' relationships (Gay, etc) as something that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable (While my intellect tells me its perfectly fine and what should I care), incest gives me a feeling of profound disgust down to my very core; the same place where the thought of rape makes me want to burn someones house down.
So anime that isn't science fiction is weird as fuck? Got it. Does anyone know why incest storylines are so (it would seem from this thread)popular in romance anime?
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I believe I answered that question, at least partially, in the 16th post in this thread.Total LOLige said:
It is actually quite true to the source material from what I have heard.Saltyk said:
Oh, I loved the final two episodes there. I was filled with glee as the ending (which was spoiled to me a few years before) drew near. I actually loved that ending.Tanis said:
OT: Let it be said that I did not really like the specifics around how it ended, but I liked the overall way things ended. I was pretty certain it would get weird. Now for a bit containing light spoilers, I won't be giving specifics, but I'd advice anyone who might watch it to not read it.
What I didn't like was the way they kept burning bridges. However they ended it by reverting to their original state. Having an open ending where anything might happen like they did means we're not ruling out the ending each of us individually wanted.
I agree with this (also the bit about the ending being realistic). I didn't really feel the dynamic between them going in that direction. Among the specifics that made me dislike the ending this is a part of it.Elfgore said:
Turning down every girl he's ever met just to burn bridges. The stage confession seemed to be more a part of that rather than something that fit the story as a whole
GWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahehehehe you're so cute :3
Being traumatized by something so minor like that ahh such innocence!!!
*Goes back to reading The Daily Life of Mai-chan*
It's AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWRIGHT
Being traumatized by something so minor like that ahh such innocence!!!
*Goes back to reading The Daily Life of Mai-chan*
It's AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWRIGHT
I think the thread title trivialises actual trauma and PTSD. A trigger warning wouldn't go amiss either. Just something to think about.
Well, incest is something that happens in anime/manga, as well as the Deep South in America (and somehow the latter is more frowned upon).
Not sure how this particular situation could traumatize anyone, unless they are unfamiliar with the concept of incest or are extremely against it. There are plenty of different moments in anime/manga that could have easily traumatized anyone out there (not going to list any, but for those of you who know will probably agree with me).
In my opinion, incest isn't cool, but it's something that happens. If the two individuals are consenting adults, who am I to judge or even violently try to tear them apart?
Not sure how this particular situation could traumatize anyone, unless they are unfamiliar with the concept of incest or are extremely against it. There are plenty of different moments in anime/manga that could have easily traumatized anyone out there (not going to list any, but for those of you who know will probably agree with me).
In my opinion, incest isn't cool, but it's something that happens. If the two individuals are consenting adults, who am I to judge or even violently try to tear them apart?
I can deal with incestuous relationship crap in my fiction but I honestly didn't think this show was going to take it there. That's like asking somebody why they watched school days if they didn't like horror shit when they had never heard of the show before they started watching it.Silvanus said:Sounds like you need to stop thinking about it.verdant monkai said:
OP, if this kind of thing is offputting to you (as it is me), why did you watch two whole series of the show? Genuinely interested on that point.
Frankly, I loved the series, even if the ending seemed a bit of a cop out, and all the
seemed a bit forced from one or two of the characters. I myself would definitely not be in an incestuous relationship, but as for oreimo, I just didn't care. In fact, I smiled wide when
but yeah. I actually kind of like the fact that they had the balls to do that, most other daytime anime with the whole "incest" type subplot usually goes the "oh, they were not really related at all so it is okay!" route.
confessions
they finally confessed to one another
The show is literally called "I can't believe my little sister is this cute". That along with the tsundere traits of the sister, and obvious tension they had towards one another, I am at a loss on how you couldn't see that it was going that route.Epicspoon said:I can deal with incestuous relationship crap in my fiction but I honestly didn't think this show was going to take it there. That's like asking somebody why they watched school days if they didn't like horror shit when they had never heard of the show before they started watching it.Silvanus said:Sounds like you need to stop thinking about it.verdant monkai said:
OP, if this kind of thing is offputting to you (as it is me), why did you watch two whole series of the show? Genuinely interested on that point.