So I was watching Little Mermaid the other day...

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EvilRoy

The face I make when I see unguarded pie.
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Ickorus said:
shootthebandit said:
thejboy88 said:
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The Ariel of Disney was too unrealistic.
in aladdin his skin tone gets slowly whiter as he goes from an a street rat to an arabian prince. Hes practically caucasian by the time hes wealthy and powerful. Thats not even half as bad as some of disney's earlier work where the racism is downright obvious not even thinly veiled
I'm assuming you're referring to this picture:


Because I hate to break it to you, but that 'proof' is from a pornographic yaoi image of Hercules sucking off Aladdin.
Which really should be obvious, because Disney seems to be morally opposed to nipples. If you check the boxart you'll find that they're missing.
 

Lilani

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Someone Depressing said:
I do like it when Disney tries to do non-generic, non-rail thins designs like that. I liked Jane because she was more reminiscent of a bishoujo/puni girl that you tend to see in romantic comedy anime, and I liked Nani because she was designed by the movie's director and storyboarder, whose illustrations I will put in the bottom of the post because he is da boss.

I noticed that in Beauty and The Beast, my, like, second favourite movie ever, that the Bimbettes looked the same. And the woman buying stuff from the baker. Busty, leggy and hourglass-shaped, all with the same slightly pudgy but still cute face.
This really irritated me: All the men look different, and so do all the "unnatractive women", and Belle is different because she's the main character. So, it's just Disney being lazy and slightly mysoginist.
Like... really mysoginistic.
Boy, for somebody who hates misogyny so much, you don't hesitate to use a word like "bimbettes" to casually describe a set of attractive females.

Anyway, as somebody else already pointed out, this is something that has existed in cartoons and art in general for a long time, now. Male characters have a huge range of possibly attractive features (or at least, non unattractive features), and with females the range tends to be much narrower. I think it's a combination of artist's tastes being similar and the general range of attractive female features being smaller than the general range of attractive male features. However, the way is still pretty narrow for men in general. You'll notice in Frozen Hans and Christoff have very similar builds, the main differences being almost the same as the main differences between Anna and Elsa: hair color and a couple of things in the face. And Hans has sideburns, but facial hair is a category of variance that women lack.

So of course characters who aren't supposed to look attractive look very different--it's a very narrow range of features that constitute attractiveness. And in animation, especially from the same studios within the same generation of artists (such is the case with the the Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, and Frozen and Tangled), of course the style is going to be similar. The main thing I was annoyed by was the similarity between the horses in Tangled and Frozen--those I felt were copied basically verbatim excepting their manes and tails. The girls are similar, especially in stills, but in their respective films they do have very different mannerisms and ranges of facial expressions. They were uniquely designed, but still modeled by many of the same artists.

Though according to your tirade on Frozen you haven't seen the film, so you may not have noticed.
 

Piorn

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Maybe growing up underwater without the need to support herself, she grew lankier like you propably would in space?
But then again, she'd need additional insulation against the cold water, so she'd have to be thicker. Wouldn't want to radiate all your body heat out through your twig arms, would you?
 

Vault101

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Jacco said:
I don't know that it's misogyny. People like to throw words like that around a lot now days and it loses its meaning.
no, it still means what it means....a general loathing of women, now eather or not lazy problematic design are "mysoagny" I wouldn't go so far as to call it that...

[quote/]That being said, don't you see that exact same thing in real life? How many girls do you see a day that are conventionally "attractive" but that are unique? None. They all wear the same outfits, have the same hair, put on the same make-up. Hell, they all even wear the same sunglasses. And guys too. How many conventional "dudebros" do you see every day wearng polo shirts? Spiked hair? A baseball hat?

There are things that are safely attractive and there are things that are not. In order to make their characters the most appealing to the most amount of people, Disney is simply using these conventions because they are safe.[/quote]
just because people (particually girls) feel the need to conform to a specific type of attractiveness does not mean it isn't problematic

as somone who once was a teenage girl...it kind of is...
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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shootthebandit said:
thejboy88 said:
.
The Ariel of Disney was too unrealistic.
You are complaining about a mermaid (a woman with a tail) being unrealistic
Stop me now if it was you I quoted in another thread on this exact issue, but in the movie's context mermaids are real, so it's valid to question the design of a mermaid in regards to realism without questioning the existence of mermaids, and there's nothing to suggest they don't follow human body shapes where applicable. By your logic once anything is different from real life, it might as well all be insane and no-one can complain.
 

SD-Fiend

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Ickorus said:
shootthebandit said:
thejboy88 said:
.
The Ariel of Disney was too unrealistic.
in aladdin his skin tone gets slowly whiter as he goes from an a street rat to an arabian prince. Hes practically caucasian by the time hes wealthy and powerful. Thats not even half as bad as some of disney's earlier work where the racism is downright obvious not even thinly veiled
I'm assuming you're referring to this picture:


Because I hate to break it to you, but that 'proof' is from a pornographic yaoi image of Hercules sucking off Aladdin.
Actually I rewatched the movie just now an he is lighter when he's dressed up as a prince but he goes back to his normal tone by the end of the movie when he's back in his normal clothes. I still doubt that there was any racist intent though.
 

someonehairy-ish

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Semi-DemiFiend said:
Actually I rewatched the movie just now an he is lighter when he's dressed up as a prince but he goes back to his normal tone by the end of the movie when he's back in his normal clothes. I still doubt that there was any racist intent though.
It could just be that they colour corrected one scene differently, or didn't quote match the tones throughout the film, or whatever.
Walt Disney was antisemitic and stuff though, which is what the original argument was over.

Edited to sort out fucked up quoting.
 

DementedSheep

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Semi-DemiFiend said:
Ickorus said:
shootthebandit said:
thejboy88 said:
.
The Ariel of Disney was too unrealistic.
in aladdin his skin tone gets slowly whiter as he goes from an a street rat to an arabian prince. Hes practically caucasian by the time hes wealthy and powerful. Thats not even half as bad as some of disney's earlier work where the racism is downright obvious not even thinly veiled
I'm assuming you're referring to this picture:


Because I hate to break it to you, but that 'proof' is from a pornographic yaoi image of Hercules sucking off Aladdin.
Actually I rewatched the movie just now an he is lighter when he's dressed up as a prince but he goes back to his normal tone by the end of the movie when he's back in his normal clothes. I still doubt that there was any racist intent though.
You sure its not just lighting your noticing? cause his skin colour varies a fair bit and is a lot darker looking in scenes when they have a lot brown/red.
 

SD-Fiend

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DementedSheep said:
Semi-DemiFiend said:
Ickorus said:
shootthebandit said:
thejboy88 said:
.
The Ariel of Disney was too unrealistic.
in aladdin his skin tone gets slowly whiter as he goes from an a street rat to an arabian prince. Hes practically caucasian by the time hes wealthy and powerful. Thats not even half as bad as some of disney's earlier work where the racism is downright obvious not even thinly veiled
I'm assuming you're referring to this picture:


Because I hate to break it to you, but that 'proof' is from a pornographic yaoi image of Hercules sucking off Aladdin.
Actually I rewatched the movie just now an he is lighter when he's dressed up as a prince but he goes back to his normal tone by the end of the movie when he's back in his normal clothes. I still doubt that there was any racist intent though.
You sure its not just lighting your noticing? cause his skin colour varies a fair bit and is a lot darker looking in scenes when they have a lot brown/red.
Maybe? It probably is that but I don't really know. I was just confirming that his skin does change from time to time.
 

DementedSheep

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Semi-DemiFiend said:
DementedSheep said:
Semi-DemiFiend said:
Ickorus said:
shootthebandit said:
thejboy88 said:
.
The Ariel of Disney was too unrealistic.
in aladdin his skin tone gets slowly whiter as he goes from an a street rat to an arabian prince. Hes practically caucasian by the time hes wealthy and powerful. Thats not even half as bad as some of disney's earlier work where the racism is downright obvious not even thinly veiled
I'm assuming you're referring to this picture:


Because I hate to break it to you, but that 'proof' is from a pornographic yaoi image of Hercules sucking off Aladdin.
Actually I rewatched the movie just now an he is lighter when he's dressed up as a prince but he goes back to his normal tone by the end of the movie when he's back in his normal clothes. I still doubt that there was any racist intent though.
You sure its not just lighting your noticing? cause his skin colour varies a fair bit and is a lot darker looking in scenes when they have a lot brown/red.
Maybe? It probably is that but I don't really know. I was just confirming that his skin does change from time to time.
I guess it doesn't matter either way. I'm more inclined to think its colour matching with scenes and lighting or if he is actually lighter playing on the fact that lighter skin from being out in the sun less (not race) is associated with wealth but who knows? As far as I know this isn't a trend with Disney.
 

Lilani

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Semi-DemiFiend said:
You sure its not just lighting your noticing? cause his skin colour varies a fair bit and is a lot darker looking in scenes when they have a lot brown/red.
Maybe? It probably is that but I don't really know. I was just confirming that his skin does change from time to time.[/quote]
Well yeah, because by that time Disney was quite good at having multiple color palettes for characters when they were in different lighting situations ;-)
 

Soviet Heavy

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Casual Shinji said:
You look at the work of Chris Sanders and you'll notice all his pretty girls also look exactly alike. Same with Bruce Timm or Dean Yeagle.

This probably has to do with what a cartoonist finds to be beautiful and sticking with that whenever they draw a pin-up. I have my own image of beauty, and if I were to draw pretty girls they'd likely end up looking very similar too.
Sorry, I know I quote you a lot whenever these threads pop up, but you are so often on a similar wavelength or train of thought as I am it's scary. Anyways, Bruce Timm. I've been watching Batman on Netflix recently, and I can definitely see where you're coming from. As the series progressed, and especially after Superman TAS came out, a lot of designs became much more homogenized. Just compare Ivy from the first few seasons to her redesign. Really, only two characters came out relatively unchanged, and incidentally, both have some of the most unique looks. Harley and Barbara.

Barbara Gordon especially looks so unlike other characters on the show. Her face is much larger for one thing, but it's those eyes that really pop. When your show was drawn on black backgrounds, seeing two ice blue eyes shining out from the cowl is a really sharp contrast.
 

FPLOON

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...And to think I was going to make a Kingdom Hearts 2 reference... until I read the rest of the OP...

OT: I don't know... Even when I was young, a character's "age" hardly mattered to me in the long run... Quite frankly, I was never bothered by any of Disney's artistic styles... or when said style makes some of the characters from different movies having the same face/body when you start comparing them side-by-side, I guess... (I think that's where all those crossover fanfics get their inspiration, maybe...)

Regardless, I do sometimes check the original designs/scenes that didn't make the final cut and go "man, do I wish that was in the movie"... and yes, when someone does point out when certain character designs look the same, I usually can never unsee that... (It was literally the one thing I "choose" to forget about while watching Frozen for the first time...)