So Idris Elba might be the next James Bond
- Thread starter Torrasque
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Of course race doesn't matter for James Bond. This won't be for a while though as Craig is signed on for at least 3 more films. Besides, Craig is doing a fantastic job. Don't really need to start thinking of a replacement at this point.
I really liked Idris Elba in Luther, Thor, and Prometheus, but he is really starting to look old.
And considering that Craig is signed on for two more movies Elba isn't exactly gonna look any younger in four years time...
And considering that Craig is signed on for two more movies Elba isn't exactly gonna look any younger in four years time...
Now, I like Elba. He's very good, and I've enjoyed him where i've seen him. However, if he were to play bond, he WOULD be black james bond (his comment about Craig is funny, since Craig DID face major opposition based on physical appearance. James Blonde, anyone?) because he's black, and no one has been black and played james bond, just like Obama was America's FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT, LIEK OMG YOO GAIZ. I don't think black james bond would sell. Heimdall worked because he's a sideline character, if Thor had been black instead (which is justifiable for the same reasons Heimdall being black was) the movie would had been a failure. Maybe it's racism, but there are just certain characters that are immediately identified as one race. Changing that fucks with moviegoers perception, and makes them uncomfortable.
While there isn't a good reason Bond CAN'T be black, it's a bad idea from an financial standpoint.
While there isn't a good reason Bond CAN'T be black, it's a bad idea from an financial standpoint.
Thank you for catering to my very specific fetish with that beast of a post. I am sorry but just like someone trying to play dragons dogma or shadow of the colosuss with a dodgey controller, I am having difficulty getting to grips with your reply, so sorry if ITorrasque said:
I miss something.
(question 2 part)
You speak as if you know the inner mind of Idris but you do not. I am not a paranoid white racist and I do not think he wants to be JB to undermine white people or something. So fair enough I suppose it isn't pandering to a demographic.
As for Superman all Kryptonians are white we have to deal with that. Seriously though why be dull and unoriginal when you could make a new black super hero.
(Question 3 part)
"But there are Asians that are part of the UK and asians that live in Britain. Are you saying British people are definitely caucasian and definitely not asian?"
I get the feeling you are trying to back me into a corner and make me look like a racist, let me set the record straight I am not. one of my best friends is black and I had an Asian girl friend for two weeks.
When you think British person you think white person, not Asian person. My idea of James Bond is an upper class white guy who has been in the cold war, not someone who has recently come over from Asia.
You can say you come from wherever you like, at the end of the day it is just land, land with a lot of people getting stressed out over who lives where. It is not my job to tell anyone where they come from, that job belongs to the people at the air port with the rubber gloves.
Glad you like the Octopus jokes.
He would be the sexiest goddamn Bond ever, I know that much.
I'm all for it. We've had a number of pasty white dudes play the part by now, why not shake things up and inject the franchise with something new?
I'm all for it. We've had a number of pasty white dudes play the part by now, why not shake things up and inject the franchise with something new?
Film versions of books make all kinds of changes - leave parts out, add in characters, etc - but we still, generally, expect those making the film to at least try to choose an actor/actress who resembles the character.
These days though there seem to be more and more films picking people who look nothing like the characters they're supposed to be portraying. Look at the film "Reacher" - if you've never read any of the books Jack Reacher's height (6ft 5) and size is referred to with almost tedious frequency ... and who's playing him? The scientologist short arse Tom Cruise.
I'd rather have an actor as close as possible to how they're described in the book - otherwise, what's the point? If you can change sex and colour why not age, religion, ability/disability etc. etc. For example, why have Harry Potter played by a young, white English boy (albeit with minimal acting ability) when you could have, say, Meera Syal dressed up like a grandmother?
I just wish they'd make new stories and new characters instead of constantly changing established ones.
These days though there seem to be more and more films picking people who look nothing like the characters they're supposed to be portraying. Look at the film "Reacher" - if you've never read any of the books Jack Reacher's height (6ft 5) and size is referred to with almost tedious frequency ... and who's playing him? The scientologist short arse Tom Cruise.
I'd rather have an actor as close as possible to how they're described in the book - otherwise, what's the point? If you can change sex and colour why not age, religion, ability/disability etc. etc. For example, why have Harry Potter played by a young, white English boy (albeit with minimal acting ability) when you could have, say, Meera Syal dressed up like a grandmother?
I just wish they'd make new stories and new characters instead of constantly changing established ones.
It isn't racist to say that Bond should be a white man. Because that's the freakin' character. He's of Scottish descent. And the theory that James Bond is just a codename has been debunked. The only reason a movie studio would want a black actor in the role of James Bond is because it would be a black James Bond. Not because they think no one else can play the role. So the decision to have a black Bond would be based entirely on the race. Probably to promote political correctness of something like that. It would be like making James Bond gay vegan. It would have nothing to do with the story and the character and everything to do with politics. That's why I think they shouldn't do it. I don't doubt that the movie would be good, and I would probably enjoy it, but if you want to make a spy/action movie with a black protagonist, or a gay vegan protagonist no one is stopping you. As long as you do it for the right reasons.
Oh, man. Another one of these threads...
Don't get me wrong, this subject is something that should be discussed but it seems to me that nobody ever agrees.
Anyway, Idris Elba is one of my favourite actors right now. Have you people ever seen Luthor? Check that out, you will not be disappointed. But would he make a good Bond? Meh. He'd make a different Bond and I don't doubt that he'd be awesome but this comes back to my own personal views on this whole mess of a subject:
I'm on the side of "White actors for white characters." Now hear me out. Idris was fantastic in Thor and Jackson is a great Fury but those characters were originally white. And it's nothing to do with racism. It SHOULD be the same as telling a woman they can't play Superman because of their gender, telling a dwarf he can't play the tallest man in the world or just telling someone they can't play a character because they don't have the right nose or something. It should be just... One of those things! A simple requirement for playing an established character.
Now many people say it's ok for black people to play white characters but not the other way around and that's BS. The argument goes that black people can play white characters because there's not enough roles for black actors, right? This seems to be working backwards, in my opinion. I personally think there should be more black characters. DECENT black characters. Look at the black comic book characters: Black Panther, Luke Cage, Bishop and Blade. That's just a handful. All the ones that are not either racial stereotypes (brother Voodoo!) or just plain shit are never given the chance to shine or the promotion they need or the creative team that knows how to fucking write and draw (the last Blade series was awful).
It's why it annoys me so much when a well established character is turned gay. I get it, you're trying to please people or whatever. But is it really that hard to create someone new?I know that gay people come out of the closet late in life sometimes, blah blah. But let's face it, that's not what they're doing with these characters.
This seems like a better way to do things than saying "here, you can play this white guy. Don't say we don't give you anything." It just kind of seems... Patronizing.
TL;DR shut up, it's not that long.
Don't get me wrong, this subject is something that should be discussed but it seems to me that nobody ever agrees.
Anyway, Idris Elba is one of my favourite actors right now. Have you people ever seen Luthor? Check that out, you will not be disappointed. But would he make a good Bond? Meh. He'd make a different Bond and I don't doubt that he'd be awesome but this comes back to my own personal views on this whole mess of a subject:
I'm on the side of "White actors for white characters." Now hear me out. Idris was fantastic in Thor and Jackson is a great Fury but those characters were originally white. And it's nothing to do with racism. It SHOULD be the same as telling a woman they can't play Superman because of their gender, telling a dwarf he can't play the tallest man in the world or just telling someone they can't play a character because they don't have the right nose or something. It should be just... One of those things! A simple requirement for playing an established character.
Now many people say it's ok for black people to play white characters but not the other way around and that's BS. The argument goes that black people can play white characters because there's not enough roles for black actors, right? This seems to be working backwards, in my opinion. I personally think there should be more black characters. DECENT black characters. Look at the black comic book characters: Black Panther, Luke Cage, Bishop and Blade. That's just a handful. All the ones that are not either racial stereotypes (brother Voodoo!) or just plain shit are never given the chance to shine or the promotion they need or the creative team that knows how to fucking write and draw (the last Blade series was awful).
It's why it annoys me so much when a well established character is turned gay. I get it, you're trying to please people or whatever. But is it really that hard to create someone new?I know that gay people come out of the closet late in life sometimes, blah blah. But let's face it, that's not what they're doing with these characters.
This seems like a better way to do things than saying "here, you can play this white guy. Don't say we don't give you anything." It just kind of seems... Patronizing.
TL;DR shut up, it's not that long.
Hm... this has probably been mentioned before, but having Idris Elba as James Bond would confirm the theory that James Bond is just a code name that goes with the "007" code number, and that multiple men have taken on the role.
But, yeah, as long as the guy's a good actor (which he seems to be), sounds fine by me.
But, yeah, as long as the guy's a good actor (which he seems to be), sounds fine by me.
Bishop's supposed to an an Australian Aboriginal, though, so using an actor of african descent for the role is doing exactly the same thing as having a 'black' Bond.ninjaRiv said:
(for those that don't know Australian Aboriginals are as African as the average Swede)
Fuck, I know, right? And Elijah Wood wasn't even a hobbit!rjdjones said:
Hollywood has a long tradition of using illusions to make shorter actors look like taller characters. Don't know if they'll bother with Reacher (did they do anything to make Hugh Jackman look shorter in the X-Men films?), just saying, it's been done. A shitload of times. Since ever.
Could a white actor play Morpheus? Yes, but it just wouldn't be the same.
That's about the extent of my opinion. Whether or not I'm racist, I don't really care, but I think James Bond is a role better suited to white actors because he is the representative of imperialist Britain. There's no reason a British spy shouldn't be black, there's no reason black people can't be womanising, indulgent, ruthlessly efficient and witty. It's just that black people are not the obvious choice for portraying what James Bond portrays, and for that reason, I think James Bond should be white. It's not meant to be some sort of quirky take or deviation from the formula, James Bond stands for something. Unless, you know, maybe black James Bond is a bit of an anarchist, I don't know. I don't think they'd do anything with him conceptually though.
My other two points are that I don't really like characters that have multiple actors over their lifetimes being dramatically different because of a new actor and there not be a narrative reason for it, and everyone just pretends it's the same guy. Hell, even the tie in Doubledore's beard was enough to annoy me. The other thing is that I would really, really hate it if they decided on Idris Elba just because he's black and they wanted to be the ones who had a black James Bond. I'm not saying he doesn't have the ability, I'm saying it would be unfortunate if his skin colour was considered in the process, and call me cynical, but I think it was. I think someone said 'you know what would be really new? A black James Bond', and because Idris Elba is a good actor in his own right, they thought they could sign him on and no-one would call them out on it because he's a good actor anyway.
As far as other races, virtually any nationality that was once part of the British Empire I can understand, including black, Indian, any of those. But I'd still think white was more appropriate considering who he is and what he represents. It's just counterintuitive to have an embodiment, a representative, of anything, not be the most fitting embodiment or representative.
But that said...really? I thought Daniel Craig had 2 more movies set in stone, and they're not made overnight.
That's about the extent of my opinion. Whether or not I'm racist, I don't really care, but I think James Bond is a role better suited to white actors because he is the representative of imperialist Britain. There's no reason a British spy shouldn't be black, there's no reason black people can't be womanising, indulgent, ruthlessly efficient and witty. It's just that black people are not the obvious choice for portraying what James Bond portrays, and for that reason, I think James Bond should be white. It's not meant to be some sort of quirky take or deviation from the formula, James Bond stands for something. Unless, you know, maybe black James Bond is a bit of an anarchist, I don't know. I don't think they'd do anything with him conceptually though.
My other two points are that I don't really like characters that have multiple actors over their lifetimes being dramatically different because of a new actor and there not be a narrative reason for it, and everyone just pretends it's the same guy. Hell, even the tie in Doubledore's beard was enough to annoy me. The other thing is that I would really, really hate it if they decided on Idris Elba just because he's black and they wanted to be the ones who had a black James Bond. I'm not saying he doesn't have the ability, I'm saying it would be unfortunate if his skin colour was considered in the process, and call me cynical, but I think it was. I think someone said 'you know what would be really new? A black James Bond', and because Idris Elba is a good actor in his own right, they thought they could sign him on and no-one would call them out on it because he's a good actor anyway.
As far as other races, virtually any nationality that was once part of the British Empire I can understand, including black, Indian, any of those. But I'd still think white was more appropriate considering who he is and what he represents. It's just counterintuitive to have an embodiment, a representative, of anything, not be the most fitting embodiment or representative.
But that said...really? I thought Daniel Craig had 2 more movies set in stone, and they're not made overnight.
I know I don't know the inner workings of Mr. Elba's mind, but in an interview I linked on the first page, he said himself that he didn't want to just be known as "black Bond".verdant monkai said:
I can see how you would think that what I said would be something to make you get defensive and imply that you are racist, but I did not intend it to be. You answered my actual intended question in your follow up, so all is well
I also think of a typical UK person as being caucasian, the whole colonial age of "take ALL the land!" kind of etched that in my mind.
Not seeing it at all.
Bond is supposed to be suave, clever and somewhat stealthy. I'm not seeing how Elba could pull that off.
And yes, I know the books were different. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I don't care. Even Craig's more hard edged Bond still kept many of the Connery style elements.
As for the race question, well it'd be tough for me to totally accept it right away, but if the guy embodied the role, it'd be fine.
As for Asian, again sure, as long as they didn't change the character to fit the ethnicity.
And yes, there ARE certain roles that are limited by ethnicity and gender. Roles that are built upon the ethnicity or gender of a character.
Movie begins late in the story. Bond is all beat up and covered in dirt.
He opens with the line "I was born a poor white child....."
Bond is supposed to be suave, clever and somewhat stealthy. I'm not seeing how Elba could pull that off.
And yes, I know the books were different. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I don't care. Even Craig's more hard edged Bond still kept many of the Connery style elements.
As for the race question, well it'd be tough for me to totally accept it right away, but if the guy embodied the role, it'd be fine.
As for Asian, again sure, as long as they didn't change the character to fit the ethnicity.
And yes, there ARE certain roles that are limited by ethnicity and gender. Roles that are built upon the ethnicity or gender of a character.
I can see it now.Woodsey said:
Movie begins late in the story. Bond is all beat up and covered in dirt.
He opens with the line "I was born a poor white child....."
First, let me say I agreed with the majority of your post except for this segment. The problem with the first is that your Analogies don't exactly apply. SuperMAN shouldn't be a woman? Makes sense, since there is an intrinsic value that Superman holds (being a man) that making the character a woman would actively counter-act. HOWEVER, there's nothing intrinsically CAUCASIAN about the character of James Bond, only BRITISH! Last time I checked, black people HAVE actually been birthed within the borders of GB.ninjaRiv said:
Even to say "oh, Bond's backstory puts him in a Scottish orphanage" holds little weight: I'm pretty sure if a resident parents who just happened to be black (just like Craig's parents HAPPENED to be white) died in a Scottish neighborhood, they wouldn't ship him off just because he's black: they'd put the kid in a Scottish orphanage(he's not a special needs patient that Scotland can't handle, his skin is darker!).
Again, not arguing whether or not Elba should be Bond or not. Only illuminating how your arguments are flawed =
The 2nd part is just simple debunking. Trust me, it goes both ways. For example, no black actress has EVER played the Cleopatra in a main-stream "Big Studio" production. First it was Claudine Colbert, Then Liz Taylor, Then a Chilean actress (forget her name). Even now, in 2000 and freakin' 12. Whose gonna play Cleo ? Zoey Zaldana? Violet Davis? Taraji P. Henson? Halle Berry?
Nope. Angelina Jolie.
But, playing the victim is tacky, so lets both stop doing it...
No, I don't want him to be Bond any more than I would want Daniel Craig to be Al Simmons. That said, I would love for Idris Elba to be the next Al Simmons/Spawn.Torrasque said:
If I recall correctly, Bond is described in the book as having blue eyes. I'm pretty sure that means he is White.Marter said:
So, acting as the best, most murderific agent of the secret service of the country that served as the epitome of European Imperialism for a century wouldn't be a "racial" role?WolfThomas said:
So, acting as the best, most murderific agent of the secret service of the country that stood as the sterling example of the epitome of European Imperialism for more than a century wouldn't be a "racial" role?WolfThomas said:
Really?