SillyBear said:
You have a disgusting attitude.
Personal insults are not tolerated on these forums. Have a report.
SillyBear said:
There are no serious health concerns with taking part in Ramadan and the percentage of people who actually get seriously sick from it would be next to none. Even if there was serious concerns with it, you have no right to tell other people what they can and can not do with their own bodies. If they want to be of service to their God and not eat or drink for eighteen hours they should be allowed. They aren't forcing you to join in. It's important to them.
I grew up Catholic... and even as an adult, my doctor advised against performing even those limited fasts (which are wussy compared to what the Muslims do to themselves!). That counts as a medical opinion until you provide something better. And Muslims do it for a month straight! So don't give me BS about it not being bad for you!
The purpose behind laws and equality is to make sure people aren't mistreated simply because they're different in some way. I work with several Muslims. We've had complaints that we're eating over lunch-break (and thereby disrespecting their culture or some BS). They've performed less efficiently because of fatigue etc. than normal. They require to go early (in some months anyway). And everybody around them is left to pick up the slack. WTF? Why should I NOT be offended by this and speak out against it?
And to top it all off, the reason it's being done? Because of a religious pronouncement. And pretty much all religious pronouncements (for pretty much all religions) are made by some dude who spent too much time in the sun, over a
thousand years ago, in a time of slavery, oppression and abuse of women, who
claimed to be the prophet of God. We have a name today for people that try to pull that one off...
I'll be the first to admit that most religious contain some very good ideas... surrounded and buried in picky details created by men for the purpose of serving their whims and expanding their power. So yeah... explain to me how any of the detail (rather than the broad guiding principles) has any relevance today. Until then, talk to the hand.
SillyBear said:
I'm willing to wager you do something just an unhealthy. We all do. Live and let live. Be a good person.
Absolutely... I spend far too much time playing computer games. But I do my damndest not to let it impact on anybody around me. And I certainly don't wave it around on a forum acting like it's a good way to be!
Shiny Koi said:
I tend to have a bit of a visceral anti-religious side too, but fasting can actually be beneficial for your health and it's often prescribed by health professionals as a treatment of minor symptoms. But then again, they're technically water fasts.
See above. My doctor (and my nutritionist for that matter) advises against fasting. I don't know what sort of health professionals you've been consulting, but I've never seen anything that supports your position, sorry.
Shiny Koi said:
Btw, a part of Ramadan is to acknowledge the suffering of the poor and starving throughout the world. Not to just do fuck all like most people do and go "yeah there's starving people, whatever", but to literally feel the stomach pangs, the cravings, the tiredness. It does make you more aware, open-hearted and charitable, even if you were good willed before it. Anyone who has completed the annual 48 (or 72) hour fast will be able to tell you that.
In b4 "starving yourself doesn't actually help starving people" -- charity is one of the five pillars of Islam. If you don't give to charity (if you can and you're able to of course), and you hoard your wealth, you won't reach paradise.
I believe that hunger in the world arises from social, environmental, educational and political problems. And until those are sorted out, I see very little purpose to giving to food charities. It's like a black hole that, no matter how much you put in, will always keep sucking it down and demanding more.
I've lived in Africa (just as an example). I don't need an annual fast to tell me the impact of it because I've seen it. And once you have, it's pretty damned hard to forget. But the solution is not to provide food - except in the short term - it is to address the root cause of the starvation. As such, I prefer to give to companies that provide solutions to these problems (e.g. training in farming, developing genius ideas for the provision of clean water or reducing erosion etc.).
That's the only way the problem is going to be solved. I'm afraid giving money to a company that only feeds the starving is simply deluding yourself.
Kurokami said:
How about mental well being? Some people find comfort in the thought of a higher power than ourselves. It certainly makes it easier to believe in a 'just world'. You shouldn't discount all religions as tools of oppression, often times they serve as little more than tools to validate one's personal identity and make them feel their life has some sort of meaning. Personally I don't buy any of it, I find that religion, especially those that harbor old traditions pertaining to things such as eating habits (Kashrut, Halal etc), are outdated and should perhaps be reevaluated by those who follow them. But I can see how others would and have found it to be a source of meaning and comfort. Condemning all religions is stupid.
See, there we've got a real difference of opinion. For what it's worth, I am a theist (if there is such a thing). I'm firmly convinced of the existence of sort sort of higher being and yes, that can at times be a great comfort.
But as you noted above, many of the large, organised religions set out doctrines going "I'm right, you're wrong, do as you're told or you're going to HELL!". And if you dare to read the book yourself and call them on stuff, then "clearly you've misinterpreted it".
In absolutely no way at all do I condemn faith. It can be a great strength and civilising influence. But religion?? Welcome to the farm. The shearing shed is thattaway.
The Stonker said:
What?
Silly you!
But I'm a buddhist and frankly, I don't care about what others think about my religion so why not just chill, be happy and smile at your so called friends, they can whine as much as they want.
As long as it leads to enlightment.
See above. You'll note I'm only talking about religion here. Faith is a completely different matter, one which I'm firmly in support of (not that I'd come knocking on your door about it either... that's unbearably intrusive!).
Obtain a bit of that enlightenment you're endorsing, and then maybe we'll chat again.
brownstudies said:
I've always found this to be an interesting point. How do the muslims in the thread stand on their ability in the workplace during fasting? For example, I really would not want someone who was fatigued and hungry operating heavy machinery or driving a car. I come from quite a multicultural area and I've heard people complaining about Muslims at their workplace "dropping the ball" a lot during Ramadan because they can't concentrate.
I'm just wondering if it's something that you feel like you have to warn co-workers about, or take extra precautions against?
Finally... somebody who actually thinks things through rather than instinctively leaping on the multiculturalist "tolerate everything or you're a bastard" bus! Pleasure to meet you!
CM156 said:
Riiiiiight, because any and all belief in a higher power must be stupid, right?
Ummm... no. Religion =/= faith. I'm a firm theist, myself, but I hold no truck with religion. See argument above and reconsider.
