So I've got an Idea for a game...

[Angelblaze]

And I know exactly what I want to do plot-wise (This one revolves around the whole 'Tropes vs gaming'/feminism/Equality current events thing), the problem is I have no idea where to start with art designing (I've had a game designing class - its the actual making the resources of the game I'm having a problem with). And Yes - I want to make it.

I mean, I've already got a good idea for character designs, might as well have already mentally written down the plot - it's just...how do I start building the backgrounds, battle system and stuff? Where do I really even start? Should I make like a base level and then go out from there?


Should I use some of the free pixel art that's on the internet or something else?


Just a little help please?

Captcha: 200+ Custom Settings.


No Captcha - I would LOVE to make 200 custom settings for the game, this does not mean I can.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well it's best to start with what you are sure of, i.e. get that story on paper and then the setting / characters / style should become clear.

Then make some lists of the things you want drawn and slowly start simple black/white sketches, if you are better at plain pencil and paper doodles then just go for that first then later adopt it to photoshop / GIMP.
Also it's no shame to look up a style you like and then attempting your own take on it, or asking a devianart creator for some guidance.

Most importantly you need to remember that first drafts are far away from the end product, it may take a year, two, three,... possibly more before a refined piece is truly done.

 

[McKinsey]

Whatever you do, don't start with the story or characters. Story is there to provide context for the player's actions, but it's not the most important thing in a game, and it's definitely not a proper starting point for the development process. Extra Credits did an episode on this recently, I recommend you watch it (in fact, you better watch all the episodes because this knowledge is really essential for an aspiring game designer). Ask yourself the question: what is it that will make people want to play my game? And if your answer is "Well, I've got an awesome story to tell", then either think some more or forget about making a videogame and go write a book or something.
Apart from that, you're going to have to learn the basics of programming and drawing at the very least. Yes, it will take time, and no, there are no shortcuts. While you may find other people who could do these things for you, you won't be able to forge a good game without understanding the elements it is built of.

 

[Tactical Pause]

Ask yourself the question: what is it that will make people want to play my game? And if your answer is "Well, I've got an awesome story to tell", then either think some more or forget about making a videogame and go write a book or something.

I disagree with this on such a fundamental level that it is quite hard to express just how much I disagree with this. A story can be so much more than simply pushing the player from point A to point B, and can definitely be the major draw of a game. If you have a great story that can be told through the medium of videogames, then by all means go for it (take a look at Telltale's The Walking Dead for proof that a great story can absolutely be the core of a game). This idea that a story should be no more than an afterthought in every game's development is just plain wrong.

OT: As for where to start, make sure you've got something that's actually solid. When ideas are nice and cozy in your brain they can seem a lot more complete than they actually are once you put them onto paper.

 

[theswordsmn]

I recommend a software called Gamemaker. It's what I first started using in my game design classes and is a great beginners tool. There are step by step tutorials in the software and even some starting sprites that they offer to assist you. However! As any game designer will tell you, the first thing that you need is a paper prototype. This is essentially a break down of all the math in the combat, currency/point system, level creation, movement, yadda yadda... You first need to introduce the basic layout. How do you want this to play? Rpg? First person? Side-scrolling? Then draw, draw, draw! Draw your concept art, HUD layout, character concepts, basic premise. It's a huge step before you even sit down at a computer, so just be sure not to rush into something unprepared!

 

[TK421]

Ask yourself the question: what is it that will make people want to play my game? And if your answer is "Well, I've got an awesome story to tell", then either think some more or forget about making a videogame and go write a book or something.

I disagree with this on such a fundamental level that it is quite hard to express just how much I disagree with this. A story can be so much more than simply pushing the player from point A to point B, and can definitely be the major draw of a game. If you have a great story that can be told through the medium of videogames, then by all means go for it (take a look at Telltale's The Walking Dead for proof that a great story can absolutely be the core of a game). This idea that a story should be no more than an afterthought in every game's development is just plain wrong.

I think you are entitled to your opinion about how important story can be in a videogame, but a lot of gamers (most people I know anyway) honestly don't really care about the story, they just want something fun to do in between work/taking care of kids and sleeping.

 

[Tactical Pause]

I think you are entitled to your opinion about how important story can be in a videogame, but a lot of gamers (most people I know anyway) honestly don't really care about the story, they just want something fun to do in between work/taking care of kids and sleeping.

And that's fine, I have no issue with that. However, McKinsey seemed to be suggesting that no game should ever focus on the story, a statement which I am perfectly comfortable labeling as 'just plain wrong'. The rest of my post (about games centered around story) is my opinion, that last bit is kind of separate.

I am aware that lots of people couldn't care less about story in games, but there are also many of us who do care, so claiming that it is never a good idea to put a story at the core of your game is incorrect.

Hopefully this clears up what I originally intended to say.

 

[NoMercy Rider]

-snip-

-snip-

I would like to think that there is a pretty even split in the gaming community in regards to one extreme of gamers that want a very story-driven game and the other extreme side of gamers that just want want something fun to play (maybe someone should start a new thread with a poll).

I have to agree with ZombieFanatic that it is a poor blanket statement to say that developers should never use a story as the foundation for a game. Sure, there are plenty of fun games that have virtually zero story and still maintain widespread appeal.

But truth be told, there are plenty of players that seek very deep story lines with very interesting themes. It sounds like TK421's data pool is pretty much limited to individuals with jobs and/or families that prohibits long gaming sessions. Nothing wrong with that, but that is a pretty limited demographic sample set. Of course people with limited gaming time will not want a deep game that requires several hours at a time.

However, I find as I get older and more mature, becoming more interested in modern events and themes through history, I desire games with deep stories and realistic human interaction. Though I can also enjoy a mindless game just as much. Nowadays I want a game that tells a story, through art, gameplay, narrative, etc above all other things.

Wow, don't want to derail this thread.

 

[Jingle Fett]

And I know exactly what I want to do plot-wise (This one revolves around the whole 'Tropes vs gaming'/feminism/Equality current events thing), the problem is I have no idea where to start with art designing (I've had a game designing class - its the actual making the resources of the game I'm having a problem with). And Yes - I want to make it.

I mean, I've already got a good idea for character designs, might as well have already mentally written down the plot - it's just...how do I start building the backgrounds, battle system and stuff? Where do I really even start? Should I make like a base level and then go out from there?


Should I use some of the free pixel art that's on the internet or something else?


Just a little help please?

Captcha: 200+ Custom Settings.


No Captcha - I would LOVE to make 200 custom settings for the game, this does not mean I can.

Take this from someone who's actively well under way with making his own indie game, plus so you don't make some of the same mistakes I (and people I know) have made in the past.
***This started out as a small post and sort of kept growing longer than I originally intended so WARNING: Big wall of text

First of all you'll want to pick up Unity. It's free and you can develop your game with it and even release it, all without having to pay royalties or anything. Plus you can release on Windows/Mac/Linux/Webplayer/iOS/Android simultaneously for free too. It has great documentation, lots of tutorials, and lots of ready-made assets you can buy. Engines like Gamemaker and RPG Maker (and even FPS Creator) are perfectly reasonable alternatives of course, but these are also a lot more specialized; with Unity you can be reasonably confident that you can do anything you might want to do, more flexibility.

Secondly, and this is the part that catches a lot of people off-guard...forget about the art for now. Forget about art and story and all that stuff, you need to focus on the actual game first. The art and story can be good or bad, but unless you can program the game yourself, you'll have a very hard time making the game. You can try to convince a programmer to do the programming for you, but unless you can actually pay them, they generally don't have much incentive to stick with your project when things get tough.
Most of the people you DO find, the ones willing to work for free, often they'll be enthusiastic about it at first and maybe even make a prototype of the game or something. But then, after a couple of weeks pass, the enthusiasm wears off. And then they lose interest in working on somebody else's project and eventually flake out. This sort of thing is EXTREMELY common. Making a game is hard work and a good portion of it is literally like grinding in a RPG. It's boring, mundane work, but it's an absolute necessity to complete the game.
Art, you can get away with simple or bad art, and you can get away with free or paid art packages. Even if it's just to use them as placeholders. Art is the side that everyone sees and focuses on, but it's actually a distraction from the real game, which requires good programming no matter what. Without a programmer, you've got nothing.

So the most reliable way of making sure the game gets done eventually is to learn programming yourself. Make a prototype of the game, start making the shell of the game, get it to a point where you can show people what you've got so far and the direction you're going in. It doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to work. When people see that you're dedicated to your project, artists will be more interested in working with you. One of the worst things for artists is when they join a team, do a whole bunch of hard work, only for the team to flake out after couple of weeks, and all their hard work goes down the drain; they've made all that art for nothing. So showing you're not going to do that goes a long way.
Another reason you should worry about the art last is because when designing your game, you'll find some things work and others don't and things change often. You might have an idea for a super awesome weapon/boss/enemy for example, but later find out that it's just not going to work in the game. So if you told your artist to make that weapon/boss/enemy and then later had to remove it from the game entirely...the artist isn't going to be too happy. Better to wait until you have everything functional and set in stone before moving on to the art assets. And this applies to an extent to story as well. You might have an idea for the ultimate story, but if that story is going to require massive amounts of work, or you don't know how to make the story into a good game...then it's all for nothing. A bad game with a good story is still a bad game, just like how a bad movie with good special effects is still a bad movie. Like say Transformers 2

Learning to program might seem like a monumental task, but it's doable. I started out as an artist, and still am primarily an artist. BUT. I learned how to program too, a lot of it self taught, and the Unity documentation and community is pretty good, there are tons of free tutorials out there. And if programming still seems too daunting, you can try your hand with one of the 3rd party visual scripting tools available for Unity, where you can program your whole game by connecting logic blocks together to make stuff happen. In fact that's what I used before switching to full-on programming, it's a tool called Antares Universe, and there's a free version of that too.

Incidentally (just so I'm not completely talking out my ass lol, I'm not trying to advertise or anything) this is my game here, and it's a completely one-man team, I'm doing everything (been quietly developing it for over a year now, still a work in progress). So it CAN be done http://www.indiedb.com/games/bhb
If you're interested, I'd be more than happy to share some of the tips and stuff I've learned along the way.

 

[Boogie Knight]

I'm gonna throw this crazy question out there and ask "Why does it even need to be a video game? Why not a book? Why not a comic?" These are perfectly valid mediums by which you could tell a story, even tell the story through art, and you're not gonna be bashing your head against a wall to make the code work.

Let me throw out another question, "If it's such a good idea, why aren't you talking about what your great idea is?" It's about that whole Tropes vs. Women thing, but what particular angle are you gonna take with your idea? If it's a good idea then you need to really evangelize for it and not keep it to yourself like it's knowledge of an esoteric sect.

 

[WoW Killer]

I'm resisting the urge to take part in that little derail...

Going to assume that your programming experience is minimal. What sort of gameplay and graphical style are you imagining? Can you think of a game you'd be happy being similar to in gameplay and graphics? If it's simple sprite based stuff then I agree with looking at RPG Maker and Game Maker.

I haven't had such a great experience with those programs myself. I've used each extensively in the past (earlier versions, they're bound to be better now), and both times I've run into something I wanted to do that either wasn't possible or was a complete hack job. I remember in one of the old versions of RPG Maker I'd got to a point where I was building my own battle system from scratch, and I went quite far with it too. But I got really annoyed with the lack of a certain feature that I can't quite remember exactly. It was something to do with command nesting. I think I was trying to grab a characters stats from a list when the character was variable. In pseudo-code it'd be something like

function f(x) = getstats(getplayer(x))

only in RPG Maker the argument for getstats() couldn't be a function. I could replicated the same thing with a lot of if statements (or as they called them, switches), but it was like thousands of them I'd need. Fuck. That.

In Game Maker I ran into this issue with alpha channels, which was a bit weird. Basically I'd just discovered a way to make really cool looking images despite the lack of artistic talent found in such a number-focused individual such as myself (see below), but I couldn't display these images in the version of Game Maker I was using because they used alpha channels. I could remove the alpha channels, but then the images would look shit. There was a way to get it to work, apparently, but it was such a hack job I thought to hell with it.

But anyway, that was old versions of those programs (I think I used RPG Maker 2000, and I've no idea the version of Game Maker, but it'd have to be at least 8 years old). I'm not trying to warn you of these problems specifically (they're probably fixed by now). What I'm saying is that whatever you have imagined, if you use a ready made engine like the aforementioned programs, then eventually you're going to run across something you want to do but you can't. And it's going to piss you off. But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. I still recommend such programs. Be aware you'll run into something soul-destroying, but do it anyway. You might get annoyed when it happens, but you'll have learned so much up to that point that it'll have been worth it.

Honestly, if you don't know anything about programming then things like RPG Maker and Game Maker are genuinely good tuition tools. They give you a bunch of stuff for free, just enough to dangle a reward of your perfect game in front of your face. But there's bound to be something missing that you thought was obvious and automatic, and turns out not to be. So then you ask "how do I do this?" and then you learn something. Seriously good teaching tool. There's a lot of elitism in programming. Like that term "script kiddie". And yeah, using RPG Maker or Game Maker is scripting. But scripting *is* programming, it's just an easier to learn and more restrictive version of it. If you happen to find it easier to learn programming by first doing scripting languages then fucking go for it.

As for making images, I may have a few hints. There's a program I used for ages called Tile Studio [http://tilestudio.sourceforge.net/] that happened to work perfectly with the version of RPG Maker I used. It's good for putting premade images into tile sets, but if you want to make images from scratch it's a pixel by pixel thing. I was a bit shit at that. The easiest way to get really nice looking images (I told you I found a cheat method) is with pre-rendered. If you can learn the basics of a free program like Blender [http://www.blender.org/], then you'd be surprised with the results for 2D games. All you do is create a great big 3D image and then downscale it to sprite size. Even with very simple objects it can look amazing. I haven't used Blender for a while, but if you're interested I'll redownload, refamiliarise, and see if I can cook up an example.

 

[McKinsey]

This idea that a story should be no more than an afterthought in every game's development is just plain wrong.

Except that's not what I said. I said that you should not START with a story and then try to shoehorn everything else in, cutting off good ideas right and left because they don't fit the unnecessary limitations you've imposed onto yourself. More often than not this approach results in gameplay disasters. To the Moon had a great story, but it totally SUCKED as a game: it was nothing more than a pixelated cartoon with lots and lots of text messages and some really dumb puzzles. Same with The Walking Dead: although the story is good (sort of), the gameplay is a dull, bland, tedious example of "press X to win".
Yeah, creating game mechanics as an afterthought has even worse consequences then when you're doing so with the plot.

 

[Tactical Pause]

Except that's not what I said. I said that you should not START with a story and then try to shoehorn everything else in, cutting off good ideas right and left because they don't fit the unnecessary limitations you've imposed onto yourself. More often than not this approach results in gameplay disasters. To the Moon had a great story, but it totally SUCKED as a game: it was nothing more than a pixelated cartoon with lots and lots of text messages and some really dumb puzzles. Same with The Walking Dead: although the story is good (sort of), the gameplay is a dull, bland, tedious example of "press X to win".
Yeah, creating game mechanics as an afterthought has even worse consequences then when you're doing so with the plot.

My mistake then, I guess I misinterpreted what you said. I still disagree with what you are saying, but I have no intention of continuing the derailing of this thread, so this will be my final post.