So, lets talk about racism for a minute

[Zen Toombs]

I don't think you need to concern yourself with me being a bit of a racist. Here's why:

If I could impose my will upon the nation of Australia, I wouldn't make abos slaves, or give them any less rights than other races, (this isn't about me thinking whites are superior intellectually, its about me thinking that many many races are superior intellectually to aborigines).

So you want to treat an entire group of people as less intelligent for ...let's just say dubious reasons,[footnote]very, very dubious reasons[/footnote] and it's not a problem just because you don't want them enslaved?

...I'm not quite sure what to say.

Affirmative Action is a good idea in theory, but there are some key problems with it, specifically the idea that a workplace or a college needs to have X amount of a minority to be diverse enough, and I don't think that it clearly helps end racism.

Yeah, I concur. I definitely see the point of Affirmative Action though.

Problem - certain groups are discriminated against, and because of that they lose access to opportunities that would otherwise be available to them.
Answer - give them said opportunities.

 

[Imat]

Affirmative Action isn't a new thing, it's been around since at-least 1960's. Given the way that Aboriginal people were treated in the past, I see no problems with giving them a little leg up to help escape poverty if they want to. In a perfect world there would be no need to discriminate in that way but we don't live in a perfect world.

This guy gets it.

Basically, the Aborignees are much like the Indians are to us Americans. We came in, and we fucked them over (for the most part), when we had no right. Because of the actions in the past, we got rich off of it while they ended up being forced into poverty.

I'm gonna have to stop you there. Who came in? Seems to me when the Europeans entered the New World scene, America wasn't a thing (Referring to the 'United States of' in this case). Europeans may have destroyed much of the Native American populations on the East Coast, but America was still an idea dreamed up by a time-travelling Benjamin Franklin. And talking about rights? It was war, conquest, imperialism. Rights have no part in war, else Latin would never have spread past Italy. Rights were thrown out with the first shot fired. Do you complain about the poor Greeks, conquered by the Romans. The poor Germans, conquered by the Romans. The poor French, conquered by the Romans. The poor...The list goes on.

As for legally acceptable racism: Anybody else notice a problem with that? Not only is it accepted by people, it is accepted, and in fact encouraged, by law? Methinks this issue should be dealt with, preferably sooner rather than later.

 

[Zen Toombs]

I believe that there is merit in the ideas behind affirmative action - certain races were undoubtedly forcefully held back from success, and that should be addressed - However, as an anarchist, I don't condone government influence in anything. The government probably caused the problem in the first place. Would you want the person who raped your child to be the one to psychologically counsel them?

Ooh, an anarchist! I disagree with you guys on several points, but huge respect. I see your point here and later in your post, but I disagree that the government was the cause of the "certain races were undoubtedly forcefully held back from success" problem in the first place.

Also, I'd appreciate avoiding using rape as your go-to thing in your metaphors. It's a free interwebs and all, but still.

A better solution is to destroy the capitalist system. When money is god, OF COURSE people will abuse the system.

Hold on, I thought you were an anarchist? An anarchy would be a pure capitalist society[footnote]Note that America is FAR from a pure capitalist society. A pure capitalist society has no governmental restrictions on commerce.[/footnote] almost by default.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Basically, the Aborignees are much like the Indians are to us Americans. We came in, and we fucked them over (for the most part), when we had no right. Because of the actions in the past, we got rich off of it while they ended up being forced into poverty.

I'm gonna have to stop you there. Who came in? Seems to me when the Europeans entered the New World scene, America wasn't a thing (Referring to the 'United States of' in this case). Europeans may have destroyed much of the Native American populations on the East Coast, but America was still an idea dreamed up by a time-travelling Benjamin Franklin.

And I'm gonna stop you there. America has done all [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears] sorts [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre] of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Appropriations_Act] native [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_River_Massacre] american [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Grant_massacre] murdering [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears]. It was certainly not isolated to the East Coast, nor was it isolated to pre-America's founding.

[small]Yes, I repeated the Trail of Tears. It was kinda a big deal.[/small]

And I'm gonna un-stop you right here:

And talking about rights? It was war, conquest, imperialism. Rights have no part in war, else Latin would never have spread past Italy. Rights were thrown out with the first shot fired.

So, the Geneva Convention [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions] is worthless? All that matters is that 'might makes right', and the strong crush the weak?

Also, why is war different from other things? If we have rights at all other times, why do we lose them when someone decides to define what's going on as a "war"? And do we still have rights if war isn't officially declared?

 

[elvor0]

bugger, misread quoted post, bah it's too early!

OT: Positive racism isn't exactly a good thing either, all it does is instill ire in the people not being favoured. If you can see past the fact that it isn't the persons fault but rather the government setting the laws you're fine, but don't take it out on the people who the law effects, it's not their fault.

For me in the UK it's the "burkas" well not the full on one, but the "ninja" mask for want of a better word. Personally, I don't think they should be allowed to wear them, not because of race or religion, but because you're not allowed to walk into a bank with a hat or hood on, yet women in burkas are allowed to, out of fear of causing offence. No one should be allowed to walk into a bank with a masked face for security reasons, regardless of what race, gender or religion you are. However it isn't the women wearing Burkas that you should be annoyed at, they're just doing what's normal to them, it's the governments fault for showing favour as to not cause offence or to be called out as racist.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I'm gonna have to stop you there. Who came in? Seems to me when the Europeans entered the New World scene, America wasn't a thing (Referring to the 'United States of' in this case). Europeans may have destroyed much of the Native American populations on the East Coast, but America was still an idea dreamed up by a time-travelling Benjamin Franklin. And talking about rights? It was war, conquest, imperialism. Rights have no part in war, else Latin would never have spread past Italy. Rights were thrown out with the first shot fired. Do you complain about the poor Greeks, conquered by the Romans. The poor Germans, conquered by the Romans. The poor French, conquered by the Romans. The poor...The list goes on.

Snippy much? Are you assuming that I'm pissed about my great living circumstances? Not at all. I just think people need to remember that there's no such thing as a free lunch, and that the great lives that we're living came at the expense of population control of another group, and in both of these cases, the expense of a peaceful culture.

As for who came in? Greedy people. Greedy French, Greedy Romans, Greedy Germans, Greedy Europeans, and than Greedy Americans. Expansion at the cost of human life.

As for legally acceptable racism: Anybody else notice a problem with that? Not only is it accepted by people, it is accepted, and in fact encouraged, by law? Methinks this issue should be dealt with, preferably sooner rather than later.

And to reiterate my point, this is not an issue about racism. It is not accepting all black applicants, it's accepting people of the Aboriginal origin.

And I'm not trying to say that there should be an element of "white guilt" involved with this, but the simple fact of the matter is that it was ethnic cleansing and negligence by our ancestors that put them there in the first place. You have absolutely nothing to be pissed about.

 

[Zen Toombs]

I don't think you need to concern yourself with me being a bit of a racist. Here's why:

If I could impose my will upon the nation of Australia, I wouldn't make abos slaves, or give them any less rights than other races, (this isn't about me thinking whites are superior intellectually, its about me thinking that many many races are superior intellectually to aborigines).

So you want to treat an entire group of people as less intelligent for ...let's just say dubious reasons, and it's not a problem just because you don't want them enslaved?

...I'm not quite sure what to say.

Incorrect.

I don't want to treat an entire group of people as less intelligent. -SNIP-[explanation why I don't like Affirmative Action]-SNIP-

Its just my opinion. Its not hurting you.

Spoiler: Of course it's hurting me!

Anyways, take a look at the bolded and underlined parts for a moment. Let me know when you see it.

As for why I care... while I can get behind and/or discuss whether Affirmative Action is a good/moral/useful/effective thing to do, I cannot abide by someone who thinks another race is less intelligent. Especially when the only evidence that the person thinks those things has is questionable at best.[footnote]I don't want to invoke Godwin's Law here, but I will point out that the website you linked to was apparently a pro-Nazi anti-semetic website.[/footnote]

 

[Aprilgold]

I never denied being racist. You're just mad because you inferred that I was, like it was supposed to be an insult, and I didn't negatively react because it doesn't offend me as its kinda true.

If it doesn't matter if I was honest or not then you could have been wasting your time on a troll. Have fun arguing with that one, and thus wasting more of your time. Iron knee.

So you have racist view-points, but have a pony as your Avatar, which is all about unity and friendship without any type of discrimination. Just pointing out that its kinda silly.

And yes, your viewpoints are slightly racist, but aren't anything to be worked up about.

--------------------------------------------------

Racism can be good, but it overall hurts.

 

[Last Hugh Alive]

You know, just reading a lot of these arguments taking place in this thread as an outsider, the problem to me is that people seem to have different definitions of what exactly a "racist" is.

I almost don't see the point of threads surrounding racism. Nobody of different viewpoints ever comes to any kind of concession or agreement. Especially when you're reading cold text on a screen as opposed to talking to the person.

Despite my difference of opinion with a few in this thread, there is no one I've seen in this thread so far that I would label a racist. At worst I see good-intentioned people making civil assertions of contradictory opinions on an apparently sensative matter.

Basically, I see too many people in here overreacting and even requesting intervention from the Mods when it clearly isn't warranted.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I am not racist, because racism is wrong and only women are wrong.....Joking!

 

[TheVioletBandit]

Is spouting a bunch of racist bullshit just tolerated on these forums? Where are the mods on this one?

Racist's make a one word post to draw mod attention! < joking, don't really do this.

Anyway, I kind of take the middle ground when it comes to affirmative action. I think some of it is good, but other parts do more harm than good.

 

[TheVioletBandit]

I don't think you need to concern yourself with me being a bit of a racist. Here's why:

If I could impose my will upon the nation of Australia, I wouldn't make abos slaves, or give them any less rights than other races, (this isn't about me thinking whites are superior intellectually, its about me thinking that many many races are superior intellectually to aborigines).

So you want to treat an entire group of people as less intelligent for ...let's just say dubious reasons, and it's not a problem just because you don't want them enslaved?

...I'm not quite sure what to say.

Incorrect.

I don't want to treat an entire group of people as less intelligent. -SNIP-[explanation why I don't like Affirmative Action]-SNIP-

Its just my opinion. Its not hurting you.

Spoiler: Of course it's hurting me!

Anyways, take a look at the bolded and underlined parts for a moment. Let me know when you see it.

As for why I care... while I can get behind and/or discuss whether Affirmative Action is a good/moral/useful/effective thing to do, I cannot abide by someone who thinks another race is less intelligent. Especially when the only evidence that the person thinks those things has is questionable at best.[footnote]I don't want to invoke Godwin's Law here, but I will point out that the website you linked to was apparently a pro-Nazi anti-semetic website.[/footnote]

You said, "I can not abide by someone who thinks another race is less intelligent." well what about another country?