So let's talk about smoking...

[Kirky]

When it comes down to this, I'm in the "Don't care, but dude seriously why?" section, as I don't really have any personal problems with smoking, I've just never seen any advantage to it.

I don't actually have any friends that smoke, but I certainly haven't tried to avoid smokers, although I do admit that I probably distance myself from them subconsciously.

Getting to the original focus of the topic, my views on the smoking ban (having been experiencing its effects for the last few years here in Britain) are neutral, perhaps leaning towards the "pro" side simply because of my personal lack of interest in smoking.

I've never had a problem with the unhealthy effects of it (in reality, I'm sure my rather excessive energy drink consumption and 48-hour gaming marathons have a much worse effect on my personal health than smoking could), but the smell has always annoyed me, so I have to say that the lack of it in public places has been an advantage for me, although it's more of a "take it or leave it" kind of thing.

 

[Steindorh]

I live in Iceland. I smoke.

I do not smoke inside my house, I do smoke in a small shed I built especially for the purpose of smoking.

In Iceland it is forbidden to smoke in public places (as in inside, not out in the streets) and the government has issued a statement that they are looking into forbidding all tobacco products.

However, the law banning smoking here in Iceland also has a kind of loophole. For example, if a bar has a separate room with a closed door where bouncers are posted, and paying members of some sort of "VIP club" are allowed to smoke there, then that's fine, apparently. Iceland's largest netcafé does this (it's no ordinary netcafé, trust me, I make a point of checking out as many netcafés as I can when traveling abroad) by having you pay a members one-time-only fee, and then charging you (one-time-only fee, again)for a key to the third floor which has a door with added insulation, twice the number of windows that can be opened as well as other means of ventilation. No one bothers us, no one minds. The law does, however, state that only members of the club are allowed access, meaning if I want to invite a friend to join me for some gaming, then he or she must pay the member's fee and buy a key.

If a bar wants to have a smoking section in Iceland that is open to anyone who wants to walk in, then it must be outside, you can't have more than two walls, and the roof should not cover it all or something (sorry, not exactly feeling like riding the bus to the university law library to look this up).

I'm all FOR laws against smoking in restaurants, clubs, bars, whatever. But my opinion is that smoking sections should be allowed, with similar restrictions as those mentioned above. Say... only a certain percentage of the establishments total public square meter space is allowed to be a smoking section, it has to have a closed door and better ventilation than most places have at the moment, and it should have to be very clearly marked as a smoking section and to have posters and such advertising those "quit smoking helpline" things.

On a side note, since I noticed some people mentioning coming home from clubs or bars smelling like cigarette smoke, I don't know how it is where you come from, but when I come home from clubbing at weekends... I'd rather smell like cigarette smoke than other peoples' sweat xP

EDIT : I'd like to add that I've been smoking for something around seven years, my teeth are white, my hair is fine and my skin is fine. I do have to make an extra effort to conceal the smell, though =/

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

No, we are not killing ourselves. Unless you count our lifestyle and so on, but then again, you might call living "kiling ourselves".

Exactly. Killing yourself through smoking is just as viable way as any to slowly kill yourself. No one is living anyway, we're all just dying slowly.

Yeah, it's REALLY great to have an addiction.

It is if you chose to get this addiction and had the right to do it...

 

[Darkmark44]

This thread made me laugh quite a bit. Mainly the fact like the people bitching about the smoke and all of this and the smokers retaliating. The thing is, you all have to fucking deal with it. We are all going to die, who cares what happens to the people that smoke? Let them smoke, I dont give a damn what happens to them.

I smoke every once in a while, but I really could care less about the 'slowly killing yourself' argument that someone keeps stating.

You either ***** about it, or dont ***** about it, in the end its bitching from both sides.

 

[Riyka]

of course it's not the governments business to decided whether or not you smoke.
it is however their business to stop your decision effecting others.

I, as a general rule of thumb, don't smoke. The odd occasions i have, have been at private parties with friends generally at their house/their garden/large open spaces.

Therefore i don't want my nice meal in a resturant ruined by smoke.
i don't want to be sitting in macdonalds with someone else second hand smoke in my face.

I live in England whicih has a similar law to stop you smoking in or around public property such as pubs clubs etc.

I've recently been to Romania...where smoking appears to have replaced breathing XD
i definately prefer our public areas to theirs...

Admittidly it was nice to sit in the pub and drink and smoke, but my friend (who doesnt smoke at all) hated it and rarely spent longer than a hour with me...

The biggets problem i've always had with smokers is there general inconsideration for those around them...and im not saying smokers are all the same...but a large majority are.

the laws are in place to protect those who dont smoke and to make PUBLIC places somewhere everyone can go...not to stop you from killing yourself ^^

 

[Malkavian]

Is it really right for a government to decide whether we smoke or not?

tl;dr: Should governments decide whether we smoke in private establishments? Should it be anyone's business except for yourself, whether you are destroying your body?

No it isn't, but thats the problem with smoking, you're not just harming yourself, but who evers walking behind you, or who evers sitting at the table beside you in a pub.. So I ask you, is it up to you to decide if they have to sit there inhaling your smoke? After all, 2nd hand smoke is worse than normal smoke, isn't it?

Oh, I agree. Noone should be forced to inhale smoke. But as longas we're talking establishments, a on-smoker has an option whether he wants to sit in a smoke-filled environment, or go somewhere else. It should, in my oppinion, be the owner who decides whether it's okay to smoke there or not.

In case there are proof that 2nd hand smoking is harmful, I agree wholeheartedly that it should be banned from public areas that aren't private owned.

 

[Abedeus]

It is if you chose to get this addiction and had the right to do it...

You speak as if people are given the right to choose which thing they want to be addicted to and which thing they don't want.

 

[Disaster Button]

Slowly killing yourself makes you feel better about yourself?

We're all slowly killing ourselves, regardless of whether we choose to smoke or not...

No, we are not killing ourselves. Unless you count our lifestyle and so on, but then again, you might call living "kiling ourselves".

Not what I said. The effects of smoking make you feel better, not the negative health effects. Although some people will like it for those too.

But like Housebroken said below you. We're all slowly dying, might as well enjoy it

Yeah, those great effects of smoking that make you great...

Chronic cough, higher chance of various cancers, yellow teeth, horrible smell around you and problems with hair. There was something more, but I forgot.

Anyway, I have had too many experiences with people who have smoked their whole life.

Grandma - died of lung cancer.
Aunt - constant coughs (and she's still smoking...) every few minutes.
Another aunt - ...yeah, coughing again. Plus disgusting yellow teeth.
Neighbour - 50-year old woman with a voice of a drunken 65-year old guy with a cold. She's almost like Bale's Batman. It's often hard to understand what she's saying.

Also, I can pinpoint which girls in my school/class just by the ravages on their faces, the stink when they move past me and how they constantly go to the toilet (and got caught 2 or 3 times outside of the school smoking) because they can't go on without having a smoke for more than an hour.

Yeah, it's REALLY great to have an addiction.

Again I didn't say it made me great. But anyway, by "all killling ourselves I mean we're all dying anyway."

And you only get those effects if you smoke A LOT, I have like 2 a day? I don't have an addictive personality. So I don't feel the need to have one, I just do it when I get wound up or when I want one.

But yeah smoking a lot produces those affects or smoking for a really long time. Same for stinking of it, or if you let the smoke blow black onto you or in your house, 2 things I don't do. I'd hate to smell of it so I make sure I don't.

And I've had a few bad experiences of having people die around me due to smoking but they smoked like 40 a day. Not saying it's still not bad for me but 2 a day is a really small amount..

 

[Omnis]

I admit, I haven't read every entry in this thread. However, judging by the non-smoker arguments I've read so far a lot of them need to think a bit more for themselves and get off their moral high horse and think about WHY they don't want people smoking, is it something about you personally or are you just going by the things stated in the newspapers?

I would like to point out, I am not a smoker, I've tried it and I couldn't see the appeal. I do know a lot of people who do smoke however, and that's their choice. (I do however point out it would be healthier for them to stop doing it. So. Yeah.)

Being around smokers can bring me discomfort, I can get snotty from it and experience allergic like reactions because of it. THAT is why I don't like being around people who smoke, and yet, I still hang around them. Why? Because believe it or not, most smokers will actually be considerate towards you if you show discomfort about being around their cigarettes - even better, tell them.


OT:

I live in Denmark. And personally I've found it much more enjoyable to go out drinking after the laws been passed, I do not however believe we should completely ban smoking. As it is now in most clubs and the likes where the law could have had a major effect on business, what it's done instead is make smoking and non-smoking areas so we now have a choice whether we want to be around smoke or not, a choice made for us before.

All in all I'm fine with the law as it is now, and a lot of the smokers I've talked to are too. Of course there's always naysayers and people refusing to adapt.
And, unfortunately politicians getting drunk with power. I can't see a reason as to why we can't just keep it as it is, everyone's got a choice now and there's room for everyone.

Oh, and if a man opened a bar and he had the choice between non-smoker, and smoker before the law in Denmark was made, what kinda bar do you think would have gotten the most customers and thereby earned him the most money?.. By making it non-smoker you would basically be alienating the customers in the smoker department. Thereby loosing a lot of money. Few smokers would go into a non-smoker bar, whereas non-smokers could, and did, easily go into a smokers bar.

 

[Tdc2182]

"There is no scientific proof correlating second hand smoke with death" Buddy, think before you post. You should change that right now. Smoking is something you do in private, and not around people who don't want to breathe it in.

I think all the time thank you very much, and what's good is I think FOR MYSELF, in constrast to you people who swallow all the bullshit propaganda about smoking.

There IS NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF CORRELATING SECOND HAND SMOKE WITH DEATH, PERIOD. It's not really an issue up for discussion, it's just fact.

The only slightly tangible connection between smoking (not the second hand kind that is) and lung cancer is statistical data. But as most of us should know (but still do not for some reason), statistics are just numbers with little regard to context.

So while the statistics say that a larger amount of people smoking have developed lung cancer, it doesn't prove that it is actually the tobacco smoke causing it. Especially since there are people who've smoked for the better part of their life and still haven't shown the slightest signs of developing any harmful diseases because of it.

The most sound theory so far is that some people MIGHT be more genetically predisposed to developing lung cancer due to smoking, but that's still just a theory (although a theory A LOT better than the politically correct "ALL SMOKING CAUSE DISEASE AND DEATH!" - theory). Effectively making harmful effects brought on by smoking a sort of allergic reaction, but much more difficult to predict. And im sorry, but whe can't wrap th world in plastic bubble wrap just to make it safe for all the allergic people out there. ESPECIALLY NOT for second hand smokers whose possible (but unproven) "allergy" towards tobacco smoke which they tend to avoid anyway like most non smokers do.

So "Buddy", I suggest YOU try to think a little for yourself before swallowing politically correct propaganda about smoking.

Yes smoking can be bad for you, especially if you're addicted and smoke a lot. But if you have a normal functioning immune system, some second hand smoke encountered once or twice a week at most will be no more harmful to you than loud noises or a foul smell. What you should worry about is exhaust fumes from running cars, especially if you live in a city or other high traffic area, because then you are exposed to harmful gases pretty much all the time, and that will be more detrimental to your health than any second hand smoke ever could be...

My suggestion, shorten it down a bit. Propaganda is usually frowned upon, but that doesn't make it false. I am a mild smoker, meaning I smoke but not to much. Smoking is extremely bad for your health. Both my grandparents had lung cancer and now my grandmotherr has a hole in her throat. I have been thinking for myself for a while, and I'm usually ahead of the curb on most of this stuff. You are a dumbass, I repeat DUMBASS, if you believe that smoking doesn't have any negative effects, apart from making you look like a douche.
By the way I only skimmed through what you said so yet again, make it smaller.

 

[Tdc2182]

snip/

Because it smells like shit to other people who don't smoke, try thinking of them. I like cigars, but people who smoke when your trying to eat, it's just goddam annoying.

Yes, it smells like shit to many non-smokers, but really, if that's your only concern, then I want laws that dictate what clothes people can wear, whether they can fart in public, how often they must shower, etc.

"There is no scientific proof correlating second hand smoke with death" Buddy, think before you post. You should change that right now. Smoking is something you do in private, and not around people who don't want to breathe it in.

No, he shouldn't. Instead of you just shouting out he's wrong, you should produce some evidence of your claim.

You don't really have a choice in the matter. Something will kill you eventually. And safeguarding yourself from ONE potential source that could kill you, by infringing on the personal rights of other people and individual businesses won't prevent you from dying due to another gazillion sources out there.

I'm just gonna quote this, since it is my favourite part of your post. And then I want to say: that, sir, was one hell of a good post.

Why should I have to produce evidence of something that is common Knowledge if you have been alive for a day? Heres your homework assignment, I want you to go find a scientist that says smoking is not bad for your health. I in the meantime will poke my head out the window and shout "Does anyone think smoking has no negative effects for your health!? Anyone at all?"
And yes, It is your right to not have any common decency.
And if me not breathing in second hand smoke is gonna keep me alive for just a little while longer, then hell I'm taking it. I don't only safeguard myself from one thing. I wanna die by something more interesting.

And I'm gonna wrap this all up by saying, you don't need to smoke in public, You don't see people masterbating in public, and thats not hazardous to your physical health, only mental.

 

[Tdc2182]

Slowly killing yourself makes you feel better about yourself?

We're all slowly killing ourselves, regardless of whether we choose to smoke or not...

But smoking brings the end a bit faster.

 

[CptCamoPants]

I want to know, who really thinks that someone smoking near them out doors, or hell, even in a bar or something, will give them cancer?

 

[Ack-ack]

to quote one specific bar owner "if we would have business suffering from smoking we would ban it" meaning the people dont care enough to go someplace else so they whine to the goverment about it so they dont have to do anything. If people cared so much why dont they just open smoking-free bars instead force their morals on others.

Also if not clear by now, im on the side "Free all drugs and make them available at any store for >18 years old for more money and less crime"

 

[Biosophilogical]

Shine, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. What you are not entitled to is to make others live by your opinion.

Ah, that statement just made my day, mainly because the majority of the community makes the rest live by their opinions (of how they should behave) and the funny thing is that, as a human being, I am allowed to try an convince others to live by my standards (as this is part of my opinion) and you saying i can't is actually saying I am not entitled to my opinion (of influencing others twoards my other opinions). This isn't really part of my argument but thank you that actaully made me laugh when I read that.

Well seeing as I am against smoking as a whole, I don't think people should have places where they aren't exposed to the dissapproval, and the less places people can smoke, the less likely they are to do so (if there isn't anywhere they can smoke nearby they do without). And so what if they don't like being judged, everyone judges everybody everytime they look at one another (men judge women on their physique, people judge others based on hair styles and weight, people judge others by physical deformities (strange walk, deformed face, broken legs, degree to which their shoulders are stooped) all of those things are chosen attributes and people get judged on them so why shouldn't smokers be judged (and for those that aren't chosen, they still get judged and it isn't their fault so how is a chosen quality (smoker) any less judge-worthy)???

... sorry if that sounded harsh but that is how I feel about it.

Your post starts by saying that YOU are against smoking as a whole and YOU don't think people should smoke any any place. You know there are people out there that have opinions equally as valid as yours, right?

Yes I do. But seeing as you are arguing against my opinion it is obviously alright to argue against the opinions of others and if they change theirs then that is fine.

Again, as long as smoking is NOT illegal and NOT done where it can hurt someone else, I don't see where it's any business of yours or (especially) the governments.

Well if people started making businesses (for example) 'fat people only' or 'no non-smokers' or 'combover-only' then people without those attributes would lose places to go (and you apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) think that that is wrong as you so obviously believe that, as long as you aren't harming someone, you should be allowed to do something, and someone with a full head of hair walking into a combover-only bar doesn't actually cause any harm). So if someone made a smoker's only bar than any non-smoker would be able to walk in because 'they aren't harming anybody' so then it wouldn't be a smokers only, it would just be not no-smoking.
Alternatively, if new businesses opened to accomodate to exclusive members (fat, combover, emo hair, freckles, smokers), then those places would take business fromother establishments so the owners of all the other small-time businesses would be hurt financially (and that hurts people).

So basically, no matter which way you try and open these businesses (as having JUST a smoking establishment and not others for different people is a bit rude and hardly fair)

And no offense, but your next arguement is floating in a sea of fail. People get judged for things like hair, weight, and physical deformities so smokers can too? Well, if you want to point and mock a smoker, that's true-you have every right to do so. But how would you feel if suddenly, no fatties were allowed to go into restaurants?

If their obesity causes harm to others then I see no issue with not allowing them into the establishment as their choices shouldn't affect that safety of others.

Or mullets were banned from bars?

Well if mullets were a fire-hazard or a health-risk then it would be perfectly reasonable to refuse them entry.

You got a hunched back? Get outta my store, freak!

Well if the hunched back is a genetic deformity then, naturally, they wouldn't be alive to enter the establishment because, in the wild, they would have been killed. So, naturally, they shouldn't even be alive. But as long as they don't reproduce (pass on bad genetic material) then they aren't actually hurting anyone so why shouldn't they be allowed in???

You see, just because other people are harassed, doesn't make right.

Completely true, but smokers shouldn't be allowed to be free of the judging if people with judgable characteristics that cannot harm people aren't given their own establishments. So it isn't right to judge them but it would be wrong to judge them and not judge others, and seeing as no one is completely unjudging then why should smokers get a place to be judge free???

Remember when the US used that policy against black people. How that turn out?

I am going to go with 'NOT WELL'. But being black doesn't harm anybody and if there is a blacks-only establishment and a white guy walks in then how is the white guy 'harming' anybody??? So therefore, why should the blacks get their own establishment when them being around white people doesn't hurt them or the white guys???

And before you come back with, "but those people aren't hurting anyone else" I say-the obese cause our healthcare system (NOT the taxpayers) more than smokers so with their diabetes and heart disease.

Well then if you can think of a way that stops obesity that doesn't involve a murderous rampage or torture then I would support it (oh and obviously, it doesn't hurt people who aren't fat)

Also, those smokers would not be harming anyone else IF YOU'D LET THEM HAVE A PLACE TO CONGREGATE AND STAY AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, why should they get a place to not be judged when countless others do not have the similar places??? ESPECIALLY when some of them do not choose to have those qualities by which they are judged.

And I'm sorry that I was harsh. But if I can do something in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else, how dare you tell me I can't do it?

Well for starters, you hurt yourself without any beneficial outcome that couldn't be achieved in some less harmful way. And secondly, if you do harm yourself without, for example, protecting someone else from harm through that act, or (example 2) getting large benefits for yourself (other than the joy of smoking (I'm assuming smokers enjoy it)), then maybe smokers need counselling cause, evolution-wise, self-harm for no reason isn't exactly a trait that would promote survival, and therefore is, most likely, a bad mental state which smokers should probably not have.

Well that is my opinion. I hope that you didn't find it too long-winded (I'm going to say you did).

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

My suggestion, shorten it down a bit. Propaganda is usually frowned upon, but that doesn't make it false. I am a mild smoker, meaning I smoke but not to much. Smoking is extremely bad for your health. Both my grandparents had lung cancer and now my grandmotherr has a hole in her throat. I have been thinking for myself for a while, and I'm usually ahead of the curb on most of this stuff. You are a dumbass, I repeat DUMBASS, if you believe that smoking doesn't have any negative effects, apart from making you look like a douche.
By the way I only skimmed through what you said so yet again, make it smaller.

You don't even bother reading an entire post and you're calling ME a "dumbass"? Oh the irony... XD

First of all, I've NEVER said smoking can't be bad for your health. I have stressed it in quite a few posts now and I really think the message should have gotten across. Therefor I hold any possible misunderstandings about this on the readers responsibility. And this is clearly a case where YOU should have read up a little before commenting, instead of bitching about a post being "too long" for you. Im not hear to please you with short enough posts for your low brow intellect to handle, if you want to counter my arguments in any way, read the entire post or just shut the fuck up...

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Slowly killing yourself makes you feel better about yourself?

We're all slowly killing ourselves, regardless of whether we choose to smoke or not...

But smoking brings the end a bit faster.

For SOME people, yes. But it doesn't matter. It's their choice and should be their choice. Case Closed...

 

[I Framed OJ]

Well I think it is a preservation of life thing. See I am addicted to niccotine, my grandparents smoked and I got small doses as a child that always made me want to come back for more. Now I know people grow up with parents smoking and what not and get turned off. But I was too young to realise it was bad. Now I keep wanting to smoke. But you see I don't smoke for the same reason I wear a seatbelt and stick to the speed limit. To preserve my life. So in that respect I can understand why the government is involved. But I also heard on the news that due to iPod's and MP3's etc headphones being abused by young kids, the hearing damage will cost medicare over 400 billion dollars in 40 years (Medicare is like free-health care in Australia). And in a different story I heard that somking related health issues will only cost the government 70billion dollars in 50 years. So the government should be concerntrating on getting headphones out of your ears than people smoking.

 

[Omikron009]

I think that if somebody has the urge to slowly kill themselves, they should at least have the decency to do it in a place where they won't harm others as well.