So my friend thinks that internet piracy not only doesn't harm the music industry, but helps it

[Escapist_V]

I think that people only pirate when they have no (or at least incredibly inconvenient) means to get these things otherwise. When a game costs $60, and kids my age make maybe $500 a year, you just can't afford to pay for all of your gaming needs.

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I don't mean to attack you in any way, you just opened up for a point I feel needs to be made. I'm going to say "you" a couple of times further down in this post, but that refers to the person reading and not necessarily you personally.
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Is there really such a thing as gaming need? Sure, I love games and have tons of them, but I don't pirate even when I can't afford to buy any more. Simple fact is games aren't a necessity like food or a roof over the head. There's no such thing as being entitled to luxury goods unless you bought or created them. The core of a luxury problem is the loss of sight of moderation. You don't need to play everything and if you still feel you do, play at a friends house or borrow it. That way you'll know if it's somthing you'd like to own. If you want to listen to a song you've heard or play a game you borrowed but had to return, that's a pretty stong indicator that you should buy it...

As we gaming enthusiasts know the coming months are going to be economical hell with every publisher pushing out their big names just in time for christmas (anybody remember the releases schedule from last november?). But is it absolutely vital that you have them on the release date? If so, and you don't have the money, I suggest you get an additional hobby.

If you're tight on cash, play it cool and wait until the prices drops or someone sells it as used (also remember to avoid/kill anyone who is prone to spoiling). In the first case publishers and developers might not earn as much on it as sold brand new but at least they'll see some of your money, and in the second case they money used to buy another persons game, I'd say, is more likely going to be spent on buying a new game.

Think about that games (and books) don't have much alternative income like concert or cinema experience. Sure there might be some merchandising, but hardly enough to pay for hundreds of people working for years to complete the games. I don't know anyone drowning in gaming swag, and I'm surrounded by gaming geeks. That income is more like a mint on the pillow when you check into a good hotel.

Publishers and developers are going belly up all over the world. Do you really think they have that much money to spare? That pirating a game doesn't hurt them? Even if many of the suit probably could live pretty good on 10% of their current salary...

When you can get everything for free, what makes a album worth 5$ or a game 20$? Low prices today, but even if they fall to that level people who can't afford to buy everything they want will still complain. And for that amount of money, what quality do we get? Problem with piracy is that it's like lying. Once the ball has started rolling, it's hard to get it to stop. What happens with your frame of reference when you have several triple-A titles on your computer/console that you haven't paid a cent for? What's our solution here? A pay-what-you-think-is-right model? Damn risky considering how expensive it is to make games. There's no magic formula to follow which ensure people will buy your games, but if they stop trying we'll never get anything good.

Would you work full time for two years without sure compensation?

 

[Agema]

The internet works to an extent.

The problem - as with just about everything on the net - is that you are suddenly confronted with a vast amount of material. You don't have time to listen to a few songs from every group to see if you like them. As anyone who has attended enough small pub/bar gigs by local bands will know, there's a vast sea of dross out there. Ultimately, record companies deserve some credit for screening them, even if they didn't do a perfect job.

There won't be a great "new" industry. I'll bet you in 10, 20 years time the essential music business model will be unchanged. What will have happened is that the big music companies will have established secure online download sites instead of making CDs. They will still be signing artists, and running them the way they always did. I'd be willing to bet those big companies will still be the likes of Universal, EMI and so on as well.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

If you want to support a band, go to gigs.

Exactly.

And you can't really "pirate" a live gig either. It doesn't matter if you have a bluray disc containing footage from every possible angle of a live gig, it won't even come close to the real feeling of being there.

... Suddenly I felt very sad for not having seen Slipknot live yet. : (

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Ultimately, record companies deserve some credit for screening them, even if they didn't do a perfect job.

No they don't. Record companies have only and will only be interested in profit. They don't give a crap about the artistic merits in making music. They only profiteer of the talents of others. The sooner they are extinct the better.

Bring on all the dross! And force bands to promote themselves online, and also force the people to actually look for their own music rather than being force fed "the very latest in mediocrity" by corporate media giants who don't do the world any good at all.

There won't be a great "new" industry. I'll bet you in 10, 20 years time the essential music business model will be unchanged. What will have happened is that the big music companies will have established secure online download sites instead of making CDs. They will still be signing artists, and running them the way they always did. I'd be willing to bet those big companies will still be the likes of Universal, EMI and so on as well.

Hardly. There won't ever be a "secure" way of making sure that copies of files aren't being made. There's nothing they can do about it, and they know it. These companies are currently singing their swansong. Soon we will be rid of these corporate leeches for good, and I for one can't wait. : )

 

[Beartrucci]

I don't pirate music, but I've seen a funny thing on 3 last concerts I've been to:
The frontmen actually said something like "It's ok to pirate our music as long as you go to concerts"

Seriously.

Same here, I saw Trivium in Adelaide and the lead singer was like, "If you haven't heard these songs yet go buy the CD or just download the fucking thing".

 

[Escapist_V]

Hardly. There won't ever be a "secure" way of making sure that copies of files aren't being made. There's nothing they can do about it, and they know it. These companies are currently singing their swansong. Soon we will be rid of these corporate leeches for good, and I for one can't wait. : )

Hardly. Remember that the world's greatest survivor is the cockroach. Where somebody is making a product, someone else finds a way to make money from it.

Like a disease they will be weakened by our attempts.

The weak die of while the strong feast on their corpses and come back stronger than ever.

Like sunrise does away with the darkness of night, so does the darkness envelope the land the sun leaves behind.

The sun will eventually die and only darkness remain, the eternal night where we will all spend our last years.

But let's not get all dramatic

 

[Cowabungaa]

Well, the thing is, without piracy I would've never listened to all the music I listen to now. I would never have become a jazz lover, I would never have become a Muse or Radiohead fan, I would never have discovered Kula Shaker or Infected Mushroom. A lot of the musicians and bands I listen to right now I would lóve to see live. I wouldn't even listened to their music if it weren't for Limewire and torrents.

So in a way, piracy creates fans, and fans in term create more money for the musicians.

 

[SmartIdiot]

Your friend needs his head smashed against a wall repeatedely until some common sense and knowledge of what he's talking about seeps in there.

Yea, because violence is a good way of making argument over the effects of copyright theft. I mean, it's not like producing counter arguments would be an effective way to get your point of view across!?

I'm doing this more and more recently... Damn the internet and it's lack of facilities to communicate a semi-serious post, you may also want to actually read the thread and check page 1 for my elaboration before you get all high and mighty.

 

[darkorion69]

Piracy impacts the sales figures of the aggrieved company. It is hard to detect and difficult to effectively prosecute (just like the war on drugs, war on terror). When detection and prosecution are not sufficient companies often turn to Awareness Ads (propaganda) in an attempt to ask (guilt trip) and remind (threaten with jail) customers not to pirate intellectual properties.

Imho, as far as music pirating anyway, bands could compensate by touring longer and more often. They should increase their ticket cost and when asked just say it is to combat the costs of Piracy. They should ramp up their Merchandising and raise the prices and when asked just say it is again, to combat the costs of Piracy. If you want to punish a so called 'selfish fan/pirate' you punish everyone else and let the mob sort it out...kind fo reminds me of high school now that I think about it

 

[JaredXE]

You know, I have NEVER heard of a musician going broke and homeless due to pirating. Usually it's their coke and hooker habits, but Britney, Metallica, Fall Out Boy and Nickleback don't ever seem to be having money problems.


Could it be that piracy doesn't do dick to artists?

 

[JaredXE]

Would you work full time for two years without sure compensation?

You do realize that they get paid WHILE WORKING ON the game, right? They do get compensated. Game sales just ensure the company as a whole survives, and whether they get enough money to make a over-hyped and under-whelming sequel.

 

[darkorion69]

I see a nasty pirating problem on the technological horizon. Holographic virtual reality down-loadable concerts go online and pirates destroy the Touring Industry...

 

[Dusty Donuts]

Id like to point out th yes, maybe they will make sales in concerts and gigs, but the idea of concerts and gigs (for smaller bands anyway) is 2 get there name out there and they make no money from it. The money comes from CD sales.

Yes but look at it from a diffrent perspective.

If your an up and coming band you want to be heard.
If no one hears you then no one's going to buy your c.d. so some kid in, lets say texas, downloads a random song of your's, likes it, puts it on his MP3 player, and then plays it for a friend or two and then those friends play it for an internet friend, say one in pennsylvainia, and one in florida.
They show it to three of there friend each. (same or diffrent state no matter)
Your gaining fan upon fan each listen (assuming your that good or well you know what i mean) then, the one's who pirate resposably ("sampling music then buying it" like most people here say they do) go out and buy your c.d. now you've just made...say 100 sales, because people like one of your songs and want more, instead of a few people hearing your song legaly, and not you might be a slightly larger band, but your still locale and your fanbase isn't nearly as big.


So you get you'r name even farther out there, see what i mean?

I have to say, you have a point.
On the topic however, if one person says "Oh, I'll just download one song, it won't make such an impact" imagine the entire population thinking that, it adds up to massive impact. Think about leaving a can in the gutter, what if 600,000 people left cans in a city's gutter? What then?

Um, the mega awesomeness of - Can City. Imagine an entire city made of cans, it would be a marvel to behold!

Well, *chuckle*, you've got me there.

 

[Snotnarok]

The only thing that matters to me is if the artist gets the money, which 95% of the time they get pennies per album so I'm not really down with supporting a corporation who's basically robbing the artist blind. Since I'm an artist, I really really get upset with that.

 

[Gariom]

I don't care if it hurts the industry or not. The cost of albums has greatly decreased over the years so now they make up even less a musician's profit. Besides, really popular bands can make tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars from just one concert and they usually get a pretty generous cut of that.

So as far as I'm concerned, I don't see the problem with pirating music, it's just increasing the band's popularity.

 

[xplay3r]

Id like to point out th yes, maybe they will make sales in concerts and gigs, but the idea of concerts and gigs (for smaller bands anyway) is 2 get there name out there and they make no money from it. The money comes from CD sales.

Yes but look at it from a diffrent perspective.

If your an up and coming band you want to be heard.
If no one hears you then no one's going to buy your c.d. so some kid in, lets say texas, downloads a random song of your's, likes it, puts it on his MP3 player, and then plays it for a friend or two and then those friends play it for an internet friend, say one in pennsylvainia, and one in florida.
They show it to three of there friend each. (same or diffrent state no matter)
Your gaining fan upon fan each listen (assuming your that good or well you know what i mean) then, the one's who pirate resposably ("sampling music then buying it" like most people here say they do) go out and buy your c.d. now you've just made...say 100 sales, because people like one of your songs and want more, instead of a few people hearing your song legaly, and not you might be a slightly larger band, but your still locale and your fanbase isn't nearly as big.


So you get you'r name even farther out there, see what i mean?

I have to say, you have a point.
On the topic however, if one person says "Oh, I'll just download one song, it won't make such an impact" imagine the entire population thinking that, it adds up to massive impact. Think about leaving a can in the gutter, what if 600,000 people left cans in a city's gutter? What then?

Um, the mega awesomeness of - Can City. Imagine an entire city made of cans, it would be a marvel to behold!

...wouldn't that be megaton then? lol

 

[xplay3r]

Id like to point out th yes, maybe they will make sales in concerts and gigs, but the idea of concerts and gigs (for smaller bands anyway) is 2 get there name out there and they make no money from it. The money comes from CD sales.

Yes but look at it from a diffrent perspective.

If your an up and coming band you want to be heard.
If no one hears you then no one's going to buy your c.d. so some kid in, lets say texas, downloads a random song of your's, likes it, puts it on his MP3 player, and then plays it for a friend or two and then those friends play it for an internet friend, say one in pennsylvainia, and one in florida.
They show it to three of there friend each. (same or diffrent state no matter)
Your gaining fan upon fan each listen (assuming your that good or well you know what i mean) then, the one's who pirate resposably ("sampling music then buying it" like most people here say they do) go out and buy your c.d. now you've just made...say 100 sales, because people like one of your songs and want more, instead of a few people hearing your song legaly, and not you might be a slightly larger band, but your still locale and your fanbase isn't nearly as big.


So you get you'r name even farther out there, see what i mean?

I have to say, you have a point.
On the topic however, if one person says "Oh, I'll just download one song, it won't make such an impact" imagine the entire population thinking that, it adds up to massive impact. Think about leaving a can in the gutter, what if 600,000 people left cans in a city's gutter? What then?

I agree that would be bad....however I believe that, that and my point both lead to a deeper line of questioning. Are people responsable? Is the human race responsable enough to do the right thing. If they arn't it's the least of our problems....all of our problems, global warming, the economy, piracy, illegal drugs, acholholism....it all comes down to the people. If there responsable enough then we can fix these things by doing what's needed, doing whats right....if not....it's to late anyways...